Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register

Author Topic: How to stay alive on a bike  (Read 6853 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline LLTHB

  • Pack Dog
  • **
  • Bike: BMW R1200GS Adventure
    Location: Western Cape
  • Posts: 191
  • Thanked: 6 times
Re: How to stay alive on a bike
« Reply #60 on: February 01, 2015, 06:16:29 pm »
Be careful on braking advice!

Bikes are not the same when it comes to brake systems.

30 years ago when you did your car drivers license you were taught to cadence break in the wet to avoid the brakes locking up. You pumped the brakes.

Then ABS came out and now you are taught to push your foot as hard as possible on the brake and maintain directional control. Modern drivers do not even hear the words cadence braking.

On bikes with ABS and linked servo assisted brakes you are instructed to pull in the clutch and pull the front brake hard, whilst maintaining stability and directional control. No back brake use is required.

HOWEVER - all the other advice above is excellent - fingers on clutch, fingers on brake, pre load front brake if you have doubt - all great advice - but make sure you know  your bike.

I have 2 bikes - 1 ABS, 1 non ABS - braking technique is not the same, not by a long shot.
Karoo View Cottages,Prince Albert, Western Cape
Motorbike Friendly   Discount to Wild Dogs    http://www.karooview.co.za/

Note: If you or your wife needs a hair drier or a GHD to recover from helmet hair, we got those tools. And if you want to go into town and not mess up your shiny new hair style, we loan you a car.
Trust us, no one wants to get on a bike at night after a long day in the saddle.Take a car or we Uber you. We know bikes.
 

Offline Tito

  • Race Dog
  • ***
  • Bike: KTM 950 SE
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 597
  • Thanked: 4 times
  • Alias .....Paul Rotorookies
Re: How to stay alive on a bike
« Reply #61 on: February 02, 2015, 09:46:48 pm »
Interesting comments above thanks for that.
My take on it ( to encourage discussion as its healthy )
For a start I'm talking at speed ,plus 100 kms per hour, Not slow stuff.
Pulling in the cluch on any bike during emergency braking is a definite No No as the bike freewheels and picks up speed , yes I get that the engine braking inter fears with the ABS but that will only be if the ABS is pullsing , so I would say use  both brakes even if they are linked, but not alowing either wheel to pulse at all
then gearing down with blipping on the down change will still be a way shorter stopping distance than just braking as hard as you can with the front and clutching in.
When they write this advice its just a one size fits all instruction I'm sure that requires very little riding ability ......Not the best and shortest way of stopping .....kind of like when they teach K53 for cars and they get you to put the car in neutral and brake and go from 4th to 1st when stopping its easier to teach but has nothing at all to do with safe fast driving using the gears to slow.....
Ride it like you stole it  !!!!!! If your Afraid of Death Your Afraid of Life, Only the Rocks Live Forever !!!!!!
 

Online Bundu

  • Grey hound
  • ****
  • Bike: KTM 1290 Super Adventure
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 8,996
  • Thanked: 418 times
Re: How to stay alive on a bike
« Reply #62 on: February 02, 2015, 10:04:24 pm »
Interesting comments above thanks for that.
My take on it ( to encourage discussion as its healthy )
For a start I'm talking at speed ,plus 100 kms per hour, Not slow stuff.
Pulling in the cluch on any bike during emergency braking is a definite No No as the bike freewheels and picks up speed , yes I get that the engine braking inter fears with the ABS but that will only be if the ABS is pullsing , so I would say use  both brakes even if they are linked, but not alowing either wheel to pulse at all
then gearing down with blipping on the down change will still be a way shorter stopping distance than just braking as hard as you can with the front and clutching in.
When they write this advice its just a one size fits all instruction I'm sure that requires very little riding ability ......Not the best and shortest way of stopping .....kind of like when they teach K53 for cars and they get you to put the car in neutral and brake and go from 4th to 1st when stopping its easier to teach but has nothing at all to do with safe fast driving using the gears to slow.....

say what? why would it pick up speed, except if it's hurtling down a cliff?

I think the only reason why they say pull in the clutch, is to prevent the bike from stalling once speed has decreased and bike was in a high gear - engine braking in my view has nothing to do with emergency braking, except if your brakes don't work

Linked brakes are probably not optimally proportioned for every situation, neither are most riders - practise should help to get the mix, if any is required, right
 

Offline MickeyT

Re: How to stay alive on a bike
« Reply #63 on: February 03, 2015, 09:28:38 am »
Interesting comments above thanks for that.
My take on it ( to encourage discussion as its healthy )
For a start I'm talking at speed ,plus 100 kms per hour, Not slow stuff.
Pulling in the cluch on any bike during emergency braking is a definite No No as the bike freewheels and picks up speed , yes I get that the engine braking inter fears with the ABS but that will only be if the ABS is pullsing , so I would say use  both brakes even if they are linked, but not alowing either wheel to pulse at all
then gearing down with blipping on the down change will still be a way shorter stopping distance than just braking as hard as you can with the front and clutching in.
When they write this advice its just a one size fits all instruction I'm sure that requires very little riding ability ......Not the best and shortest way of stopping .....kind of like when they teach K53 for cars and they get you to put the car in neutral and brake and go from 4th to 1st when stopping its easier to teach but has nothing at all to do with safe fast driving using the gears to slow.....

Stupid question - what is blipping?
"I drifted into photography like one drifts into prostitution. First I did it to please myself, then I did it to please my friends, and eventually I did it for the money." – Philippe Halsman
 

Offline Dusty Rusty

  • Sparkle
  • Grey hound
  • ****
  • Bike: Honda XR250 Tornado
    Location: Western Cape
  • Posts: 5,807
  • Thanked: 1 times
  • SSS!
Re: How to stay alive on a bike
« Reply #64 on: February 03, 2015, 10:45:07 am »
Thanks for all the good tips and reminders guys!

For me:
1. Be wide awake
2. Stay in the right hand lane if not lane splitting (taxis stop dead in the left lanes to drop passangers)
3. Be carefull to get over confidant and take unessary chances.
Never underestimate the power of kindness!

http://doutrapper.wordpress.com/
 

Offline jagter

Re: How to stay alive on a bike
« Reply #65 on: February 03, 2015, 11:33:19 am »
Both front and rear brake can generate enough force to lock the wheels, so how would adding engine braking shorten braking distance? You are already at the limit that the tires can handle?

I say pull the clutch. You don't want to moer down because the bike stalled and jerked as you slow down.

Shortest possible stopping distance is front brake applied to the level where rear wheel is about to lift of the ground. At that stage you will have zero force on the rear wheel. Of course this takes rossi level skills, so not so easy in practice.




« Last Edit: February 03, 2015, 11:38:14 am by jagter »
 

Offline ButtSlider

  • Race Dog
  • ***
  • Bike: BMW F800GS
    Location: Western Cape
  • Posts: 878
  • Thanked: 16 times
  • DRESS TO SLIDE BEFORE YOU RIDE
Re: How to stay alive on a bike
« Reply #66 on: February 03, 2015, 12:34:38 pm »
How to stay alive on a bike: How many WD's went to this in the Cape OR have been to any advanced riding course? The tips here are all very good advice, but formal training is mandatory for any biker. Learning the skills off-road is one thing, but the finer things for general riding is just as important. . . . .and practice makes perfect.

http://www.iol.co.za/motoring/bikes-quads-karts/these-bikers-teach-stayin-alive-1.1806628

By: Dave Abrahams

Cape Town - After 14 years, one of the more striking features of Wheels Motorcycle Club’s annual Skills Campaign was that several of the younger riders participating in the latest edition were in fact the children of riders who had helped kickstart this initiative in 2001 – and that provided a satisfaction all of its own.

More than 70 riders, ranging in age from 18 to sixty-something, turned out for the first phase at the Parow Traffic Department’s grounds on Sunday 11 January. Their bikes varied from 125cc scramblers to massive Harley-Davidson tourers, including a number of big trailies and sleek sports bikes, but they were all there for the same reason - to learn, or refresh (some had attended before) the riding skills and street smarts that help you survive when somebody else does something stupid out there.

Biker Basics instructor Lloyd Castle put it bluntly in the theory segment of the day’s proceedings: You are solely responsible for what happens to you on the road. You cannot assume that anybody else knows what they are doing, that they are skilled drivers, wide awake and concentrating on the task at hand.

You can’t even assume that they have seen you and your brightly coloured motorcycle - the only things over which you have complete control are the direction and speed of your bike: you can steer, you can accelerate and you can brake.
BMW 800 GSA  \\ Honda XL700V  \\  Honda Blackbird  \\
 

Offline Tito

  • Race Dog
  • ***
  • Bike: KTM 950 SE
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 597
  • Thanked: 4 times
  • Alias .....Paul Rotorookies
Re: How to stay alive on a bike
« Reply #67 on: February 03, 2015, 07:59:54 pm »
Interesting comments above thanks for that.
My take on it ( to encourage discussion as its healthy )
For a start I'm talking at speed ,plus 100 kms per hour, Not slow stuff.
Pulling in the cluch on any bike during emergency braking is a definite No No as the bike freewheels and picks up speed , yes I get that the engine braking inter fears with the ABS but that will only be if the ABS is pullsing , so I would say use  both brakes even if they are linked, but not alowing either wheel to pulse at all
then gearing down with blipping on the down change will still be a way shorter stopping distance than just braking as hard as you can with the front and clutching in.
When they write this advice its just a one size fits all instruction I'm sure that requires very little riding ability ......Not the best and shortest way of stopping .....kind of like when they teach K53 for cars and they get you to put the car in neutral and brake and go from 4th to 1st when stopping its easier to teach but has nothing at all to do with safe fast driving using the gears to slow.....

Stupid question - what is blipping?



When you gear down on a motorcycle at speed it can cause the back wheel to lock or patter, however if just before you let the clutch out you rev the throttle quickly ( bliping ) it makes engine speed the same as rear wheel speed and makes the transition much smoother .
The sequence is close the throttle clutch in gear down Blip clutch out....
It is a road racing tecnique that works like a charm for everyday riding....
Ride it like you stole it  !!!!!! If your Afraid of Death Your Afraid of Life, Only the Rocks Live Forever !!!!!!
 

Offline Tito

  • Race Dog
  • ***
  • Bike: KTM 950 SE
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 597
  • Thanked: 4 times
  • Alias .....Paul Rotorookies
Re: How to stay alive on a bike
« Reply #68 on: February 03, 2015, 09:22:59 pm »
Interesting comments above thanks for that.
My take on it ( to encourage discussion as its healthy )
For a start I'm talking at speed ,plus 100 kms per hour, Not slow stuff.
Pulling in the cluch on any bike during emergency braking is a definite No No as the bike freewheels and picks up speed , yes I get that the engine braking inter fears with the ABS but that will only be if the ABS is pullsing , so I would say use  both brakes even if they are linked, but not alowing either wheel to pulse at all
then gearing down with blipping on the down change will still be a way shorter stopping distance than just braking as hard as you can with the front and clutching in.
When they write this advice its just a one size fits all instruction I'm sure that requires very little riding ability ......Not the best and shortest way of stopping .....kind of like when they teach K53 for cars and they get you to put the car in neutral and brake and go from 4th to 1st when stopping its easier to teach but has nothing at all to do with safe fast driving using the gears to slow.....

say what? why would it pick up speed, except if it's hurtling down a cliff?

I think the only reason why they say pull in the clutch, is to prevent the bike from stalling once speed has decreased and bike was in a high gear - engine braking in my view has nothing to do with emergency braking, except if your brakes don't work

Linked brakes are probably not optimally proportioned for every situation, neither are most riders - practise should help to get the mix, if any is required, right



Try this experiment , accelerate your bike 1st, 2nd maybe 3rd  then pull in the clutch the bike gets faster....Freewheeling dangerously like a truck on a downhill out of gear and out of control.
Accelerate again 1st 2nd 3rd close the throttle quickly , the bike slows from the rear nicely.
Same again accelerate close the throttle quickly use both brakes hard but without locking the wheels and if going quite fast a gear down would be optimum
( but hard to accomplish without practice) .
The bike will not stall unless stationary with the clutch out .... definately not while slowing with the clutch out if you can gear down.
The way I see it is the sprocket acts like a extra brake on the rear doubling braking power, like having twin discs on the front of a bike as opposed to single.
My 5 cents worth...
Ride it like you stole it  !!!!!! If your Afraid of Death Your Afraid of Life, Only the Rocks Live Forever !!!!!!
 

Offline MickeyT

Re: How to stay alive on a bike
« Reply #69 on: February 03, 2015, 11:15:27 pm »
Interesting comments above thanks for that.
My take on it ( to encourage discussion as its healthy )
For a start I'm talking at speed ,plus 100 kms per hour, Not slow stuff.
Pulling in the cluch on any bike during emergency braking is a definite No No as the bike freewheels and picks up speed , yes I get that the engine braking inter fears with the ABS but that will only be if the ABS is pullsing , so I would say use  both brakes even if they are linked, but not alowing either wheel to pulse at all
then gearing down with blipping on the down change will still be a way shorter stopping distance than just braking as hard as you can with the front and clutching in.
When they write this advice its just a one size fits all instruction I'm sure that requires very little riding ability ......Not the best and shortest way of stopping .....kind of like when they teach K53 for cars and they get you to put the car in neutral and brake and go from 4th to 1st when stopping its easier to teach but has nothing at all to do with safe fast driving using the gears to slow.....

Stupid question - what is blipping?



When you gear down on a motorcycle at speed it can cause the back wheel to lock or patter, however if just before you let the clutch out you rev the throttle quickly ( bliping ) it makes engine speed the same as rear wheel speed and makes the transition much smoother .
The sequence is close the throttle clutch in gear down Blip clutch out....
It is a road racing tecnique that works like a charm for everyday riding....


You see - never to old to learn.  Thanks for that  :thumleft:
"I drifted into photography like one drifts into prostitution. First I did it to please myself, then I did it to please my friends, and eventually I did it for the money." – Philippe Halsman
 

Offline ChrisL - DUSTRIDERS

  • Forum Vendor
  • Teelhond
  • ****
  • Bike: BMW R1200GS
    Location: Western Cape
  • Posts: 32,481
  • Thanked: 902 times
    • dustriders.co.za
Re: How to stay alive on a bike
« Reply #70 on: February 04, 2015, 06:42:55 am »
I pull the clutch in the moment I start braking with the front.
As I cannot use my back brake I clutch in and shift down as fast as possible to help the rear to brake.
MOTORCYCLE ACCESSORIES RETAILER
info@dustriders.co.za
ENDURISTAN SOFTLUGGAGE IMPORTER
www.dustriders.co.za
 

Offline jagter

Re: How to stay alive on a bike
« Reply #71 on: February 04, 2015, 09:06:30 am »
Try this experiment , accelerate your bike 1st, 2nd maybe 3rd  then pull in the clutch the bike gets faster

If your bike accelerates when you pull the clutch you should patent it as a free energy machine, make billions and retire.

« Last Edit: February 04, 2015, 09:25:05 am by jagter »
 

Online Bundu

  • Grey hound
  • ****
  • Bike: KTM 1290 Super Adventure
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 8,996
  • Thanked: 418 times
Re: How to stay alive on a bike
« Reply #72 on: February 04, 2015, 10:47:56 am »
I pull the clutch in the moment I start braking with the front.
As I cannot use my back brake I clutch in and shift down as fast as possible to help the rear to brake.

is jou remme nie gelink nie Chris? Dit sou in jou geval veral handig wees  :thumleft:
 

Offline Tiger8

  • Race Dog
  • ***
  • Bike: KTM 950 Adventure S
    Location: Eastern Cape
  • Posts: 2,116
  • Thanked: 42 times
Re: How to stay alive on a bike
« Reply #73 on: February 04, 2015, 04:22:39 pm »
I think what Tito is trying to explain is:

When you pull in the clutch, the rear wheel is running free, needing more effort from the rear brake/rider to slow the wheel down; when using the clutch, the motor puts a load on the rear wheel, assisting the braking effort and affording more control of the bike. A vehicle in freewheel mode is a vehicle out of control, always have a measure of power on your backwheel.

If you ride your bike on a downhill, pull in the clutch and use only brake, stopping the bike with no motor load is harder than doing the same action using Clutch and the motor. This is especially noticable on loose surfaces.

The best is to test for yourself. theory is not as good as experience.

This thread is an excellent learning opportunity, thanks to all for sharing  :thumleft:
Don't Sweat the Petty Stuff & Don't Pet the Sweaty Stuff!
Triumph Sprint 1050ST
Yamaha WR450F
 

Offline Kaboef

  • Jedi Knight
  • Grey hound
  • ****
  • Bike: KTM 950 Adventure S
    Location: Western Cape
  • Posts: 5,686
  • Thanked: 465 times
    • CFO Consult SA
Re: How to stay alive on a bike
« Reply #74 on: February 05, 2015, 04:40:16 pm »
I pull the clutch in the moment I start braking with the front.
As I cannot use my back brake I clutch in and shift down as fast as possible to help the rear to brake.

is jou remme nie gelink nie Chris? Dit sou in jou geval veral handig wees  :thumleft:

Jip. Op n 1200GS met linked brakes kan jy maar van die agterrem vergeet.
Beste remstelsel op die planeet daai.


I try to use the rear brake as little as possible.
I mostly use the front brake.

You get into a habit of braking with the rear, and then one day in an emergency when you need to stop fast, you nail the rear brake, slide/highside and see your arse.
My braking philosophy is to bury the front into the road as much as traction allows, and when my brain have a few cell free again, I worry about the rear.
It's probably not correct, but then again I'm a shit rider.  :biggrin:
And Saint Attila raised the hand grenade up on high, saying, "O Lord, bless this thy hand grenade, that with it thou mayst blow thine enemies to tiny bits, in thy mercy."

www.cfoconsult.co.za
 

Offline zacapa

  • Race Dog
  • ***
  • Bike: Honda XR650L
    Location: Kwazulu Natal
  • Posts: 2,073
  • Thanked: 70 times
  • XR650L - 134.217kg lite weight special...
Re: How to stay alive on a bike
« Reply #75 on: February 05, 2015, 09:53:56 pm »
In traffic on a bike I am generally riding faster than 98% of the car/bus/taxi/truck/motorcycle/dom-twatwaffle-texting population around me.
I overtake when it is safe to do so without inconveniencing other road users. I'm very bang of intersections and reduce my speed in
anticipation of the next idiot to manifest his misunderstanding of road rules. My focus is forwardly orientated without neglecting my rear
view mirrors. Lane splitting is done at a sane speed or not at all. I never (hardly ever) go fast into a corner I cannot see into. (Reminder to self)
There's been plenty of Hospital time in my 36 years of biking and I'm trying to prolong the currently hospital free phase.

Hanging on the throttle gives me much joy, wheelies on public roads are cool by me and lean angle is king. Just gotta find out for yourself where
you can do it and where rather not.