Author Topic: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC - final chapter. (Read 23155 times)

THROTTLE JOCKEY · « **Reply #140 on:** April 13, 2015, 09:22:00 am »

Quote from: XRRX on April 13, 2015, 09:12:58 am

Quote from: THROTTLE JOCKEY on April 13, 2015, 08:47:08 am
This thread was doomed at the start with so called oumanne spewing crap like I would insist on a new bike ETC add to that people speculating with no formal understanding on what happens to tyres at speed and different inflations posting a whole ream of uneducated pushing of what they feel is the fault. What is hilarious is the proof and facts that seem to come out the wood work. Most of what has been posted here is utter drivel used to incite anger in the troll's by troll's.

1. IT IS NOT THE BIKES FAULT
2. IT IS NOT THE TYRES FAULT
3. IT IS NOT THE MANUFACTURES FAULT
4. IF YOU HAVE TO LAY BLAME IT IS THE RIDERS FAULT. ALTHOUGH NOT INTENTIONAL.

All other speculations and drivel are side topics!

I won't blame the rider - none of us were with him on the bike to judge... Nobody buys a 200k bike and intentionally takes chances on the first voyage - well he didn't appear to be the kind at least...
It's a simple accident - and thank God just a replaceable bike was seriously "injured" !

Thats why is said

IF YOU HAVE TO LAY BLAME IT IS THE RIDERS FAULT. ALTHOUGH NOT INTENTIONAL

Rough Rider · « **Reply #141 on:** April 13, 2015, 09:35:51 am »

Insurance pays for rider error and/or error in judgement provided there is no gross negligence involved. Of course the term gross negligence is open to interpretation.

ETS · « **Reply #142 on:** April 13, 2015, 10:14:36 am »

LIEWE

GOEIE

FOK

I cannot believe all the kak on this thread. I'm most probably just getting old.

THROTTLE JOCKEY · « **Reply #143 on:** April 13, 2015, 10:31:39 am »

Quote from: ETS on April 13, 2015, 10:14:36 am

LIEWE

GOEIE

FOK

I cannot believe all the kak on this thread. I'm most probably just getting old.

The trick is "when the kak hits the fan stay calm and deal with facts" the rest is white noise. Just maybe those spewing the white noise will see the calm and realize it and like " look up and open up as the BMW boys love to say" in this case its "shut up and learn". As in both cases most dont learn this technique.

ETS · « **Reply #144 on:** April 13, 2015, 10:43:52 am »

Quote from: THROTTLE JOCKEY on April 13, 2015, 10:31:39 am

Quote from: ETS on April 13, 2015, 10:14:36 am
LIEWE

GOEIE

FOK

I cannot believe all the kak on this thread. I'm most probably just getting old.

The trick is "when the kak hits the fan stay calm and deal with facts" the rest is white noise. Just maybe those spewing the white noise will see the calm and realize it and like " look up and open up as the BMW boys love to say" in this case its "shut up and learn". As in both cases most dont learn this technique.

You too wiil get old. Me--WD's losing its magic.

Manic · « **Reply #145 on:** April 13, 2015, 10:51:33 am »

Wonder what the 1190 would look like if its tyre makes the same on 270kph!!!

Eish, as jy n pillion op gaan he, sal haar gat seker potblou gemoer wees.

THROTTLE JOCKEY · « **Reply #146 on:** April 13, 2015, 10:51:41 am »

Quote from: ETS on April 13, 2015, 10:43:52 am

Quote from: THROTTLE JOCKEY on April 13, 2015, 10:31:39 am
Quote from: ETS on April 13, 2015, 10:14:36 am
LIEWE

GOEIE

FOK

I cannot believe all the kak on this thread. I'm most probably just getting old.

The trick is "when the kak hits the fan stay calm and deal with facts" the rest is white noise. Just maybe those spewing the white noise will see the calm and realize it and like " look up and open up as the BMW boys love to say" in this case its "shut up and learn". As in both cases most dont learn this technique.

You too wiil get old. Me--WD's losing its magic.

That I agree with. Both points. Very sad indeed.

whitedelight · « **Reply #147 on:** April 13, 2015, 10:57:03 am »

I cannot lay blame anywhere ,but I will never take another persons word that my tyre pressures are correct. I am anal about it. I once got my bike back that had just had a new front tyre put on it ,and i took it for granted the tyre pressure would be correct. I commuted in peak hour traffic for a few KM's before realising that something was horribly wrong. Pulled into a service station and tyre pressure was at 0,7 BAR.
Put air in and then it performed like a new tyre should. I check tyres before every ride,and on longer trips during the ride too, with my own gauges on not relying on the garage gauge ,which is usually out and calibrated ten years ago.

ETS · « **Reply #148 on:** April 13, 2015, 11:01:29 am »

Quote from: Manic on April 13, 2015, 10:51:33 am

Wonder what the 1190 would look like if its tyre makes the same on 270kph!!!

Eish, as jy n pillion op gaan he, sal haar gat seker potblou gemoer wees.

Haar @@@@ sal voel of ek haar bygekom het!!

THROTTLE JOCKEY · « **Reply #149 on:** April 13, 2015, 11:05:37 am »

Quote from: ETS on April 13, 2015, 11:01:29 am

Quote from: Manic on April 13, 2015, 10:51:33 am
Wonder what the 1190 would look like if its tyre makes the same on 270kph!!!

Eish, as jy n pillion op gaan he, sal haar gat seker potblou gemoer wees.

Haar @@@@ sal voel of ek haar bygekom het!!

You too fucking old as you stated above.

It reminds me of a saying

"The older I get the better I think I was"

Manic · « **Reply #150 on:** April 13, 2015, 11:06:32 am »

Quote from: ETS on April 13, 2015, 11:01:29 am

Quote from: Manic on April 13, 2015, 10:51:33 am
Wonder what the 1190 would look like if its tyre makes the same on 270kph!!!

Eish, as jy n pillion op gaan he, sal haar gat seker potblou gemoer wees.

Haar @@@@ sal voel of ek haar bygekom het!!

Whaahhahahahahaa

2StrokeDan · « **Reply #151 on:** April 13, 2015, 04:00:01 pm »

Quote from: ETS on April 13, 2015, 10:14:36 am

LIEWE

GOEIE

FOK

I cannot believe all the kak on this thread. I'm most probably just getting old.

Yes, I also could not believe the kak that bike had from a tyre. Yet you must still guard against feeling old before your time.

Geriatrix · « **Reply #152 on:** April 13, 2015, 05:20:59 pm »

Quote from: 2wdrift on April 12, 2015, 10:01:12 pm

If the bike was moving at 180km/h the tyre would be moving at the same speed at its normal radius. If that radius increased by a third (due to delamination) you could be looking at a piece of rubber being flung around at a fair bit over 200km/h. I would hazard a guess that even a 4-5mm stainless steel plate would be wrecked by that?

The bit of tyre that is in contact with the road moves at 0km / hour ( it is in contact with the road ).

The hub travels at the speed of the bike.

The bit of tyre at the top is traveling at twice the speed of the bike.

If there is a bit of rubber attached to the tyre by a length of cord it is going faster.

I am sure that a bit of rubber would go through a lot of steel under those conditions.

An under inflated tyre would fragment rapidly at that speed.

Ian in Great Brak River · « **Reply #153 on:** April 13, 2015, 05:52:30 pm »

'squeeze me...'squeeze me ...

[/Somewhere about 100 pages back on this thread someone said "ZZ*&&%$"b]

...well, somebody got to stand up for Vespas round here ...

I blame XR for being in the right place at the wrong time...

alanB · « **Reply #154 on:** April 13, 2015, 07:38:50 pm »

Quote from: Geriatrix on April 13, 2015, 05:20:59 pm

Quote from: 2wdrift on April 12, 2015, 10:01:12 pm
If the bike was moving at 180km/h the tyre would be moving at the same speed at its normal radius. If that radius increased by a third (due to delamination) you could be looking at a piece of rubber being flung around at a fair bit over 200km/h. I would hazard a guess that even a 4-5mm stainless steel plate would be wrecked by that?

The bit of tyre that is in contact with the road moves at 0km / hour ( it is in contact with the road ).

The hub travels at the speed of the bike.

The bit of tyre at the top is traveling at twice the speed of the bike.

If there is a bit of rubber attached to the tyre by a length of cord it is going faster.

I am sure that a bit of rubber would go through a lot of steel under those conditions.

An under inflated tyre would fragment rapidly at that speed.

That's correct, I'm impressed that a doctor understands this!

Most people that I've tried to explain this to don't believe me

The tyre actually rotates around the instantaneous point of zero velocity which is the contact point on the tar, the axle is moving (rotating around that point of zero velocity) forwards at the speed of the vehicle, and the top of the (unburst) tyre is actually doing twice the speed of the car in the forward direction (being twice the distance of the axle from the point of rotation).

Of course if the tyre delaminates then any bits extending out further go proportionally faster depending on how far they extend out from the point of rotation.

So yes this gets ugly fast!

Which is why you see photo's of those wrecked cars.

I recon a pillion could easily be killed by a delaminating tyre at high speed, before the bike even crashes.

Very glad that wasnt the case here.

DirtyHarry · « **Reply #155 on:** April 13, 2015, 08:19:14 pm »

Some clever okes on this forum. I am impressed.

Maybe we could also agree that it is not a good idea to push a new tyre from day one.
It would make sense to get a few heat cycles on a new tyre before you can take it safely to the max rated speed.
The correct tyre pressure is absolutely crucial if you take it to max speed.
Road surface and temperature also play a major role.
South African roads are not very kind to any tyre at the best of times.

The tacho on that bike shows 175km/hr. This was the speed when the wires got wrecked from the disintegrating tyre. Chances are the bike was a lot faster before that happened.

I would say this rider was in a hurry to get home with his new baby. He is very lucky to be alive.
I fail to see any fault from the bike manufacturer other than making these bikes go so damn fast.

XRRX · « **Reply #156 on:** April 13, 2015, 08:30:45 pm »

Quote from: Ian in Great Brak River on April 13, 2015, 05:52:30 pm

'squeeze me...'squeeze me ...

[/Somewhere about 100 pages back on this thread someone said "ZZ*&&%$"b]

...well, somebody got to stand up for Vespas round here ...

I blame XR for being in the right place at the wrong time...

2StrokeDan · « **Reply #157 on:** April 13, 2015, 08:32:18 pm »

Quote from: ETS on April 13, 2015, 11:01:29 am

Quote from: Manic on April 13, 2015, 10:51:33 am
Wonder what the 1190 would look like if its tyre makes the same on 270kph!!!

Eish, as jy n pillion op gaan he, sal haar gat seker potblou gemoer wees.

Haar @@@@ sal voel of ek haar bygekom het!!

This type of sexist remark will in turn make WD's lose it's magic for some other forum members........something to think about?

plaky · « **Reply #158 on:** April 13, 2015, 09:05:14 pm »

I have now read all 8 pages for my sins and see 2SD is wanting to let loose. I have had a good giggle at some of the chirps. I would like to make one observation, no one knows for a fact that this dude was doing 180km/h. Does XR have his details so we can actually find out, as it will settle a lot of the speculation. It is very eye opening that this can happen on a new set of tyres, who thinks of doing heat cycles and we should be warned to do this! Something I have never even considered and have been riding a bike for almost 40 years!
I saw that someone said that the speedo and rev counter can default to the top of the dials, I will give my chommies at Donford a ring in the morning and find this out. By the way I have load shedding(electrical) now and it has taken me 20 min to type this, thanx to Zooooma!

2StrokeDan · « **Reply #159 on:** April 13, 2015, 09:10:51 pm »

I do not see "heatcycling" in F1, or on the IOM, the only thing to watch out for on a new tyre is the release compound after lifting it from the mould, and even that have never given me any moments.