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Author Topic: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC - final chapter.  (Read 23305 times)

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Offline Jughead

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Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
« Reply #200 on: April 16, 2015, 01:20:28 pm »
the top of the tyre is only doing the same speed as the vehicle with respect to the biker or the bike.


 ???

How on earth can the top of the tyre be doing the same speed as the bike?  Please explain.


So relative to the bike/rider, the top of the tyre is moving forward at the same speed as the bike.

You can verify this easily:  While riding you can grab the axle bolt (if you have long double jointed arms) and it wont be moving relative to you.  But try grab the top of the tyre while moving - you will notice that it is moving relative to you at quite a high velocity, which will be the same speed as the bike - that's what I am referring to.

The distinction is important because the delaminating tyre whacked the bike, not a passer by who was standing stationary on the side of the road, hence the need to discern between relative velocities.

You're not making sense here boet!

The rider can reach down and grab the axle bolt since the rider and bike and axle are moving at the same speed relative to each other.

Surely if the outside of the wheel was travelling at the same speed relative to the bike and rider, the rider would be able to grab hold of the outside of the wheel while riding.

If you could actually grab hold of the front wheel while riding and maintain the purchase, the wheel would pull you over the handlebars.  Why?  Because the top of the wheel is travelling forward far faster than you are. 

Since you and the bike are travelling at the same speed, the top of the wheel HAS TO be travelling faster than the bike (relative to anything).
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Offline alanB

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Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
« Reply #201 on: April 16, 2015, 01:25:36 pm »
the top of the tyre is only doing the same speed as the vehicle with respect to the biker or the bike.


 ???

How on earth can the top of the tyre be doing the same speed as the bike?  Please explain.


So relative to the bike/rider, the top of the tyre is moving forward at the same speed as the bike.

You can verify this easily:  While riding you can grab the axle bolt (if you have long double jointed arms) and it wont be moving relative to you.  But try grab the top of the tyre while moving - you will notice that it is moving relative to you at quite a high velocity, which will be the same speed as the bike - that's what I am referring to.

The distinction is important because the delaminating tyre whacked the bike, not a passer by who was standing stationary on the side of the road, hence the need to discern between relative velocities.

You're not making sense here boet!

The rider can reach down and grab the axle bolt since the rider and bike and axle are moving at the same speed relative to each other.

Surely if the outside of the wheel was travelling at the same speed relative to the bike and rider, the rider would be able to grab hold of the outside of the wheel while riding.

If you could actually grab hold of the front wheel while riding and maintain the purchase, the wheel would pull you over the handlebars.  Why?  Because the top of the wheel is travelling forward far faster than you are. 

Since you and the bike are travelling at the same speed, the top of the wheel HAS TO be travelling faster than the bike (relative to anything).

We're both actually saying the same thing, obviously my English is letting me down or something.

The key point is that REALTIVE to the rider the top of the wheel is moving.  Which you in fact understand.

It is moving at the speed of the bike relative to the rider.  ie if you measure the speed relative to your self while sitting on the bike you would measure a speed that equaled the speed you see on the speedo in front of you.

If you measured the speed of the axle relative to yourself you would measure a speed of zero, because it is moving at the same speed as you are.

I cant think of any other way to say it.

I'm sorry that my english isnt good enough to explain better.
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Offline silvrav

Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
« Reply #202 on: April 16, 2015, 01:53:22 pm »
the top of the tyre is only doing the same speed as the vehicle with respect to the biker or the bike.


 ???

How on earth can the top of the tyre be doing the same speed as the bike?  Please explain.


So relative to the bike/rider, the top of the tyre is moving forward at the same speed as the bike.

You can verify this easily:  While riding you can grab the axle bolt (if you have long double jointed arms) and it wont be moving relative to you.  But try grab the top of the tyre while moving - you will notice that it is moving relative to you at quite a high velocity, which will be the same speed as the bike - that's what I am referring to.

The distinction is important because the delaminating tyre whacked the bike, not a passer by who was standing stationary on the side of the road, hence the need to discern between relative velocities.

You're not making sense here boet!

The rider can reach down and grab the axle bolt since the rider and bike and axle are moving at the same speed relative to each other.

Surely if the outside of the wheel was travelling at the same speed relative to the bike and rider, the rider would be able to grab hold of the outside of the wheel while riding.

If you could actually grab hold of the front wheel while riding and maintain the purchase, the wheel would pull you over the handlebars.  Why?  Because the top of the wheel is travelling forward far faster than you are. 

Since you and the bike are travelling at the same speed, the top of the wheel HAS TO be travelling faster than the bike (relative to anything).

yes, in simple terms, if the tyre was moving the same speed in relativeness to the rider it means the tyre is moving the same speed as the bike, which means you not going anywhere as the speed/friction from the speed onto mother earth is what makes you move....

now stop arguing, go ride and drink a beer  :pot:
 

Offline Jughead

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Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
« Reply #203 on: April 16, 2015, 02:02:20 pm »
the top of the tyre is only doing the same speed as the vehicle with respect to the biker or the bike.


 ???

How on earth can the top of the tyre be doing the same speed as the bike?  Please explain.


So relative to the bike/rider, the top of the tyre is moving forward at the same speed as the bike.

You can verify this easily:  While riding you can grab the axle bolt (if you have long double jointed arms) and it wont be moving relative to you.  But try grab the top of the tyre while moving - you will notice that it is moving relative to you at quite a high velocity, which will be the same speed as the bike - that's what I am referring to.

The distinction is important because the delaminating tyre whacked the bike, not a passer by who was standing stationary on the side of the road, hence the need to discern between relative velocities.

You're not making sense here boet!

The rider can reach down and grab the axle bolt since the rider and bike and axle are moving at the same speed relative to each other.

Surely if the outside of the wheel was travelling at the same speed relative to the bike and rider, the rider would be able to grab hold of the outside of the wheel while riding.

If you could actually grab hold of the front wheel while riding and maintain the purchase, the wheel would pull you over the handlebars.  Why?  Because the top of the wheel is travelling forward far faster than you are. 

Since you and the bike are travelling at the same speed, the top of the wheel HAS TO be travelling faster than the bike (relative to anything).

yes, in simple terms, if the tyre was moving the same speed in relativeness to the rider it means the tyre is moving the same speed as the bike, which means you not going anywhere as the speed/friction from the speed onto mother earth is what makes you move....

now stop arguing, go ride and drink a beer  :pot:

Ok oom!   :biggrin:
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Offline konrad

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Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
« Reply #204 on: April 16, 2015, 02:12:28 pm »
Personally I think he is going to have a tough time convincing the insurance they are liable for any damage and that includes any claim towards the dealer. As somebody already commented, any possible damage claim was doomed from the word go. To go and post photos for the world to see, including dealer and insurance, that at time of incident he was doing 180km/h just created a hole for the owner/rider of bike, bigger than the Kimberley hole. The riders manual specifically stipulates the maximum rev,s etc before the 1000km service and any insurance company in light of speed involved, will repudiate the claim.
Lesson hopefully learned, donít allow people to post photos on the internet that will sink your claim quicker that the titanic went down.


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Offline Bundu

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Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
« Reply #205 on: April 16, 2015, 02:15:21 pm »
Personally I think he is going to have a tough time convincing the insurance they are liable for any damage and that includes any claim towards the dealer. As somebody already commented, any possible damage claim was doomed from the word go. To go and post photos for the world to see, including dealer and insurance, that at time of incident he was doing 180km/h just created a hole for the owner/rider of bike, bigger than the Kimberley hole. The riders manual specifically stipulates the maximum rev,s etc before the 1000km service and any insurance company in light of speed involved, will repudiate the claim.
Lesson hopefully learned, donít allow people to post photos on the internet that will sink your claim quicker that the titanic went down.




I doubt that has or will be proven
 

Offline IceCreamMan

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Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
« Reply #206 on: April 16, 2015, 02:20:10 pm »
the top of the tyre is only doing the same speed as the vehicle with respect to the biker or the bike.


 ???

How on earth can the top of the tyre be doing the same speed as the bike?  Please explain.


So relative to the bike/rider, the top of the tyre is moving forward at the same speed as the bike.

You can verify this easily:  While riding you can grab the axle bolt (if you have long double jointed arms) and it wont be moving relative to you.  But try grab the top of the tyre while moving - you will notice that it is moving relative to you at quite a high velocity, which will be the same speed as the bike - that's what I am referring to.

The distinction is important because the delaminating tyre whacked the bike, not a passer by who was standing stationary on the side of the road, hence the need to discern between relative velocities.

You're not making sense here boet!

The rider can reach down and grab the axle bolt since the rider and bike and axle are moving at the same speed relative to each other.

Surely if the outside of the wheel was travelling at the same speed relative to the bike and rider, the rider would be able to grab hold of the outside of the wheel while riding.

If you could actually grab hold of the front wheel while riding and maintain the purchase, the wheel would pull you over the handlebars.  Why?  Because the top of the wheel is travelling forward far faster than you are. 

Since you and the bike are travelling at the same speed, the top of the wheel HAS TO be travelling faster than the bike (relative to anything).

yes, in simple terms, if the tyre was moving the same speed in relativeness to the rider it means the tyre is moving the same speed as the bike, which means you not going anywhere as the speed/friction from the speed onto mother earth is what makes you move....

now stop arguing, go ride and drink a beer  :pot:

when is the centre of gravity lower, when one is standing on a GS12 or when one is sitting on a GS12?

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Offline TheBear

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Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
« Reply #207 on: April 16, 2015, 02:24:50 pm »

when is the centre of gravity lower, when one is standing on a GS12 or when one is sitting on a GS12?



Don't fall for this trick question.  There is no such thing as a GS12!
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Offline silvrav

Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
« Reply #208 on: April 16, 2015, 02:27:54 pm »

when is the centre of gravity lower, when one is standing on a GS12 or when one is sitting on a GS12?



Don't fall for this trick question.  There is no such thing as a GS12!

exactly....never seen a GS12...must be very small though.
 

Offline alanB

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Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
« Reply #209 on: April 16, 2015, 02:43:47 pm »
Yay we've reached the joke stage  :biggrin:

Congratulations to all who contributed.

Personally I would like to thank... ::)

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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
« Reply #210 on: April 16, 2015, 03:17:32 pm »
Yay we've reached the joke stage  :biggrin:

Congratulations to all who contributed.

Personally I would like to thank... ::)



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Offline OomD

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Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
« Reply #211 on: April 16, 2015, 03:25:22 pm »
Yay we've reached the joke stage  :biggrin:

Congratulations to all who contributed.

Personally I would like to thank... ::)



.....................BMW........for never failing to amuse with their unique style of breakdowns. :pot:

 

Offline TCS

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Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
« Reply #212 on: April 16, 2015, 03:46:50 pm »
Heat build up is the cause for the failure.... Riding 180km/h at lets say 2 bar on a hot day will destroy the tyre.

The tread edges are still on the carcass, if it was a factory fault let say a curing problem or so the complete tread will be gone.

This is an insurance claim neither BMW or Michelin is responsible.

I wish i could could inspect the tyre the cause of the problem will be there .....
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Offline 2wdrift

Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
« Reply #213 on: April 16, 2015, 03:52:47 pm »
Personally I think he is going to have a tough time convincing the insurance they are liable for any damage and that includes any claim towards the dealer. As somebody already commented, any possible damage claim was doomed from the word go. To go and post photos for the world to see, including dealer and insurance, that at time of incident he was doing 180km/h just created a hole for the owner/rider of bike, bigger than the Kimberley hole. The riders manual specifically stipulates the maximum rev,s etc before the 1000km service and any insurance company in light of speed involved, will repudiate the claim.
Lesson hopefully learned, donít allow people to post photos on the internet that will sink your claim quicker that the titanic went down.




I doubt that has or will be proven

+1

The wiring was torn open and frayed leading to who knows how many mixed signals to the ecu and by default the speedometer and rev counter.
He might have been going very fast or maybe not, anyhow there is no evidence to base a claim about speed on. I dont know about the damage though, it might be from 180 or 120...  ???
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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
« Reply #214 on: April 16, 2015, 06:11:55 pm »
Yay we've reached the joke stage  :biggrin:

Congratulations to all who contributed.

Personally I would like to thank... ::)



.....................BMW........for never failing to amuse with their unique style of breakdowns. :pot:



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Offline XRRX

Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
« Reply #215 on: April 16, 2015, 09:46:36 pm »
OK - so it seems that according to some people I'm now the pig in the fairy tale...  :lol8:
Fot the record - I had this guy's (De Waal) permission to post this thread - but after seeing this "show", I'm sure he won't be joining us any time soon!!!  ::)
I will try and get to the rest of the story from BMW in George - but I'm sure some dogs here are way better connected than me....  :biggrin:
For the record - neither him or me has anything to hide from the insurance or any other party...  :deal:
So bring on the accusations .... use any formula you like!
If you can't handle the "softness" of the new BMW's - seek help...
 

Offline Bundu

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Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
« Reply #216 on: April 16, 2015, 09:59:44 pm »
OK - so it seems that according to some people I'm now the pig in the fairy tale...  :lol8:
Fot the record - I had this guy's (De Waal) permission to post this thread - but after seeing this "show", I'm sure he won't be joining us any time soon!!!  ::)
I will try and get to the rest of the story from BMW in George - but I'm sure some dogs here are way better connected than me....  :biggrin:
For the record - neither him or me has anything to hide from the insurance or any other party...  :deal:
So bring on the accusations .... use any formula you like!
If you can't handle the "softness" of the new BMW's - seek help...

thanks for posting the story and it would be good to hear how it ends...... oh and fuck the people that criticize you
 

Offline Manic

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Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
« Reply #217 on: April 16, 2015, 10:33:07 pm »
I put the blame on Apartheid.
 

Offline Tom van Brits

Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
« Reply #218 on: April 16, 2015, 11:22:17 pm »
OK - so it seems that according to some people I'm now the pig in the fairy tale...  :lol8:
Fot the record - I had this guy's (De Waal) permission to post this thread - but after seeing this "show", I'm sure he won't be joining us any time soon!!!  ::)
I will try and get to the rest of the story from BMW in George - but I'm sure some dogs here are way better connected than me....  :biggrin:
For the record - neither him or me has anything to hide from the insurance or any other party...  :deal:
So bring on the accusations .... use any formula you like!
If you can't handle the "softness" of the new BMW's - seek help...

thanks for posting the story and it would be good to hear how it ends...... oh and fuck the people that criticize you

Yes thanks for posting, it will make the sensible and sane more alert and focus on safety - in this case tyre pressure
Who knows, this thread might end up saving some lives because people will be more conscious
Please do keep us posted on the outcome if you get feedback
 

Offline Ian in Great Brak River

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Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
« Reply #219 on: April 16, 2015, 11:29:06 pm »
I can just imagine the discussion about relative speed if I had thrown the Tank track action into the mix ... you know, bottom half standing still whilst the top half is doing twice the bike's velocity to catch up ... but decided I would rather not mention the Tank track action ... so I woun't.
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