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Offline TCS

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Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
« Reply #220 on: April 17, 2015, 06:55:49 am »
OK - so it seems that according to some people I'm now the pig in the fairy tale...  :lol8:
Fot the record - I had this guy's (De Waal) permission to post this thread - but after seeing this "show", I'm sure he won't be joining us any time soon!!!  ::)
I will try and get to the rest of the story from BMW in George - but I'm sure some dogs here are way better connected than me....  :biggrin:
For the record - neither him or me has anything to hide from the insurance or any other party...  :deal:
So bring on the accusations .... use any formula you like!
If you can't handle the "softness" of the new BMW's - seek help...

thanks for posting the story and it would be good to hear how it ends...... oh and fuck the people that criticize you

Yes thanks for posting, it will make the sensible and sane more alert and focus on safety - in this case tyre pressure
Who knows, this thread might end up saving some lives because people will be more conscious
Please do keep us posted on the outcome if you get feedback
:thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft:
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Offline XRRX

Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
« Reply #221 on: April 17, 2015, 09:10:27 am »
I dropped in at BMW this morning in George - and I must say I was really impressed by their friendliness & professionalism!!! They even thanked me for assisting the guy!  :thumleft: :thumleft: to BMW!
Out of respect towards them and the owner of the bike I'm not going to go into any details....
All I can say is that the damages to the 1200 is more or less enough to buy a new 800 GS !  :o
And then to the reason everybody has been speculating about - in short:
The tyre got punctured on the way from Cape Town, and was repaired by a "small town" tyre fitment centre - apparently incorrectly and weakening the casing in the process. It literally just blew more or less 200km later at the exact same "repaired spot"! And remember - it was on a hot summer day on the black stuff....
AN IMPORTANT LESSON TO ALL OF US - ESPECIALLY ON TUBELESS TYRES AND HYPER DS BIKES !!!  :deal:
 

Offline THROTTLE JOCKEY

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Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
« Reply #222 on: April 17, 2015, 09:16:17 am »
I dropped in at BMW this morning in George - and I must say I was really impressed by their friendliness & professionalism!!! They even thanked me for assisting the guy!  :thumleft: :thumleft: to BMW!
Out of respect towards them and the owner of the bike I'm not going to go into any details....
All I can say is that the damages to the 1200 is more or less enough to buy a new 800 GS !  :o
And then to the reason everybody has been speculating about - in short:
The tyre got punctured on the way from Cape Town, and was repaired by a "small town" tyre fitment centre - apparently incorrectly and weakening the casing in the process. It literally just blew more or less 200km later at the exact same "repaired spot"! And remember - it was on a hot summer day on the black stuff....
AN IMPORTANT LESSON TO ALL OF US - ESPECIALLY ON TUBELESS TYRES AND HYPER DS BIKES !!!  :deal:

Thank You  :biggrin:
Ride it like you stole it!

OWN:KTM 950 SE***Suzuki DR650***Yamaha XT 600 Tenere***Yamaha XT 200***Honda CRF450X***Honda TRX 300 Quad***CRF1000AT
LIBERATED:KTM 640 Adventure***Suzuki 200 Djebel
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Offline Tom van Brits

Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
« Reply #223 on: April 17, 2015, 09:28:26 am »
I dropped in at BMW this morning in George - and I must say I was really impressed by their friendliness & professionalism!!! They even thanked me for assisting the guy!  :thumleft: :thumleft: to BMW!
Out of respect towards them and the owner of the bike I'm not going to go into any details....
All I can say is that the damages to the 1200 is more or less enough to buy a new 800 GS !  :o
And then to the reason everybody has been speculating about - in short:
The tyre got punctured on the way from Cape Town, and was repaired by a "small town" tyre fitment centre - apparently incorrectly and weakening the casing in the process. It literally just blew more or less 200km later at the exact same "repaired spot"! And remember - it was on a hot summer day on the black stuff....
AN IMPORTANT LESSON TO ALL OF US - ESPECIALLY ON TUBELESS TYRES AND HYPER DS BIKES !!!  :deal:
F
Thank You  :biggrin:

Thank you mate, just as per my origional post: (caused by heat because of low tyre pressure)
A lot of people have learned from this thread, and for some other just a confirmation an a reminder to always check the tyre pressure and to be careful for plugging holes and continue at speed
Many holes are just to big to be plugged and some holes will damage and cut the tyre to the extend where it is too dangerous to use a plug.
I recall a superbike incident on the highway once where I assisted a guy.
Hole got plugged on the rear and he had a blow out a couple of km' dow the higway.
Luckly also survived but superbike wrote off

Thanks once again for this thread-it might safe a life in future
 

Offline HB 9

Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
« Reply #224 on: April 17, 2015, 09:36:56 am »
I dropped in at BMW this morning in George - and I must say I was really impressed by their friendliness & professionalism!!! They even thanked me for assisting the guy!  :thumleft: :thumleft: to BMW!
Out of respect towards them and the owner of the bike I'm not going to go into any details....
All I can say is that the damages to the 1200 is more or less enough to buy a new 800 GS !  :o
And then to the reason everybody has been speculating about - in short:
The tyre got punctured on the way from Cape Town, and was repaired by a "small town" tyre fitment centre - apparently incorrectly and weakening the casing in the process. It literally just blew more or less 200km later at the exact same "repaired spot"! And remember - it was on a hot summer day on the black stuff....
AN IMPORTANT LESSON TO ALL OF US - ESPECIALLY ON TUBELESS TYRES AND HYPER DS BIKES !!!  :deal:

At last - lesson learned  :thumleft:
Tread lightly
 

Offline XRRX

Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
« Reply #225 on: April 17, 2015, 09:38:56 am »
I dropped in at BMW this morning in George - and I must say I was really impressed by their friendliness & professionalism!!! They even thanked me for assisting the guy!  :thumleft: :thumleft: to BMW!
Out of respect towards them and the owner of the bike I'm not going to go into any details....
All I can say is that the damages to the 1200 is more or less enough to buy a new 800 GS !  :o
And then to the reason everybody has been speculating about - in short:
The tyre got punctured on the way from Cape Town, and was repaired by a "small town" tyre fitment centre - apparently incorrectly and weakening the casing in the process. It literally just blew more or less 200km later at the exact same "repaired spot"! And remember - it was on a hot summer day on the black stuff....
AN IMPORTANT LESSON TO ALL OF US - ESPECIALLY ON TUBELESS TYRES AND HYPER DS BIKES !!!  :deal:
F
Thank You  :biggrin:

Thank you mate, just as per my origional post: (caused by heat because of low tyre pressure)
A lot of people have learned from this thread, and for some other just a confirmation an a reminder to always check the tyre pressure and to be careful for plugging holes and continue at speed
Many holes are just to big to be plugged and some holes will damage and cut the tyre to the extend where it is too dangerous to use a plug.
I recall a superbike incident on the highway once where I assisted a guy.
Hole got plugged on the rear and he had a blow out a couple of km' dow the higway.
Luckly also survived but superbike wrote off

Thanks once again for this thread-it might safe a life in future

 :thumleft: Remember - it just blew - NO warning of low pressure - so no "slow puncture"! It was repaired with that method (sorry - I'm no expert) where they grind the tyre on the inside to fit a gator or whatever - think they might have grind too much - thus weakening the structure of the tyre....
 

Offline whitedelight

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Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC - final chapter.
« Reply #226 on: April 17, 2015, 10:27:50 am »
A gator is usually used in the sidewall to repair a puncture. Was the initial damage to the tyre in the sidewall??
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Offline TheBear

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Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC - final chapter.
« Reply #227 on: April 17, 2015, 10:35:06 am »
A gator is usually used in the sidewall to repair a puncture. Was the initial damage to the tyre in the sidewall??

Never repair a puncture on the side wall.  However it hurts, buy a new tire.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2015, 10:35:45 am by AMZ »
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Offline XRRX

Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC - final chapter.
« Reply #228 on: April 17, 2015, 10:59:00 am »
A gator is usually used in the sidewall to repair a puncture. Was the initial damage to the tyre in the sidewall??

No - seemed to have been in the middle of the thread area...

« Last Edit: April 17, 2015, 11:03:11 am by XRRX »
 

Offline THROTTLE JOCKEY

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Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC - final chapter.
« Reply #229 on: April 17, 2015, 11:01:51 am »
A gator is usually used in the sidewall to repair a puncture. Was the initial damage to the tyre in the sidewall??


No !!!!!!


A gator is used to fix on the inside of the tyre on the tread area. Never on a side wall. A gator is like a hard patch. It cannot take much flex and will come off if fitted to a side wall

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Offline THROTTLE JOCKEY

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Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
« Reply #230 on: April 17, 2015, 11:22:01 am »
I dropped in at BMW this morning in George - and I must say I was really impressed by their friendliness & professionalism!!! They even thanked me for assisting the guy!  :thumleft: :thumleft: to BMW!
Out of respect towards them and the owner of the bike I'm not going to go into any details....
All I can say is that the damages to the 1200 is more or less enough to buy a new 800 GS !  :o
And then to the reason everybody has been speculating about - in short:
The tyre got punctured on the way from Cape Town, and was repaired by a "small town" tyre fitment centre - apparently incorrectly and weakening the casing in the process. It literally just blew more or less 200km later at the exact same "repaired spot"! And remember - it was on a hot summer day on the black stuff....
AN IMPORTANT LESSON TO ALL OF US - ESPECIALLY ON TUBELESS TYRES AND HYPER DS BIKES !!!  :deal:
F
Thank You  :biggrin:

Thank you mate, just as per my origional post: (caused by heat because of low tyre pressure)
A lot of people have learned from this thread, and for some other just a confirmation an a reminder to always check the tyre pressure and to be careful for plugging holes and continue at speed
Many holes are just to big to be plugged and some holes will damage and cut the tyre to the extend where it is too dangerous to use a plug.
I recall a superbike incident on the highway once where I assisted a guy.
Hole got plugged on the rear and he had a blow out a couple of km' dow the higway.
Luckly also survived but superbike wrote off

Thanks once again for this thread-it might safe a life in future

 :thumleft: Remember - it just blew - NO warning of low pressure - so no "slow puncture"! It was repaired with that method (sorry - I'm no expert) where they grind the tyre on the inside to fit a gator or whatever - think they might have grind too much - thus weakening the structure of the tyre....

I disagree on the no low pressure or no slow puncture. The tyre tells a different story.

A tyre cannot delaminate in the way shown on the pictures unless there was heat build up and heat cannot build up with a correctly inflated tyre.

Air in a tyre amongst others does two important things

1. Keeps the tyre up. ( we all know this )
2. Keeps the tyre cool. ( very important )

If the pressure drops too low for the conditions it will start heating up.

As per normal science if the tyre starts heating up the air particles get more active and are further apart. This is not good as two things are happening

1. The air is getting hotter and the tyre also
2.  The Pressure in the tyre is also increasing

Now if this is not rectified the process becomes a chain reaction.

the more the tyre warms up, the more the air warms up, the further the air particles are apart, the less the air can cool and the more the pressure increases.

To a point where two things can happen

1. The tyre gets so hot it delaminates and goes flat quickly
2. Blow out.

There is more physics in the above but basically what happens is.

1. Puncture of some sorts ( a valve or bead leak or physical puncture)
2. Pressure drops
3. Tyres starts getting hot
4. pressure increases
5. Tyre gets hotter
6. Pressure increases more
7. Cycle carries unnoticed
8. Bang!!!!!!!!

SLOW LEAKS A DANGEROUS AND ARE ALMOST ALWAYS UNNOTICED. ( More so on tubeless tyres)


Give me a quick flat any day so i can fix it and move on. ( Happens more on tubed tyres)




Ride it like you stole it!

OWN:KTM 950 SE***Suzuki DR650***Yamaha XT 600 Tenere***Yamaha XT 200***Honda CRF450X***Honda TRX 300 Quad***CRF1000AT
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Offline THROTTLE JOCKEY

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Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC - final chapter.
« Reply #231 on: April 17, 2015, 11:25:58 am »
A gator is usually used in the sidewall to repair a puncture. Was the initial damage to the tyre in the sidewall??

No - seemed to have been in the middle of the thread area...




Point of blow out.

And yes could have been aggravated by the puncture and gator as that is now the weak point and as a result will be where the blow out is most likely to accure.

Ride it like you stole it!

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Offline Bundu

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Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC - final chapter.
« Reply #232 on: April 17, 2015, 11:29:35 am »
with most/many bikes now having pressure sensors installed in the tyre, I wonder why they don't just add a temp sensor to monitor temp as well?  ???
 

Offline OomD

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Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC - final chapter.
« Reply #233 on: April 17, 2015, 11:54:22 am »
Well I've learnt something from this, thanks for the feedback XRRX.
 

Offline Tom van Brits

Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC - final chapter.
« Reply #234 on: April 17, 2015, 12:12:08 pm »
Well I've learnt something from this, thanks for the feedback XRRX.

Yes, and many of us learned from this
Great thread
Thanks
 

Offline TCS

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Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
« Reply #235 on: April 17, 2015, 12:25:08 pm »
I dropped in at BMW this morning in George - and I must say I was really impressed by their friendliness & professionalism!!! They even thanked me for assisting the guy!  :thumleft: :thumleft: to BMW!
Out of respect towards them and the owner of the bike I'm not going to go into any details....
All I can say is that the damages to the 1200 is more or less enough to buy a new 800 GS !  :o
And then to the reason everybody has been speculating about - in short:
The tyre got punctured on the way from Cape Town, and was repaired by a "small town" tyre fitment centre - apparently incorrectly and weakening the casing in the process. It literally just blew more or less 200km later at the exact same "repaired spot"! And remember - it was on a hot summer day on the black stuff....
AN IMPORTANT LESSON TO ALL OF US - ESPECIALLY ON TUBELESS TYRES AND HYPER DS BIKES !!!  :deal:
F
Thank You  :biggrin:

Thank you mate, just as per my origional post: (caused by heat because of low tyre pressure)
A lot of people have learned from this thread, and for some other just a confirmation an a reminder to always check the tyre pressure and to be careful for plugging holes and continue at speed
Many holes are just to big to be plugged and some holes will damage and cut the tyre to the extend where it is too dangerous to use a plug.
I recall a superbike incident on the highway once where I assisted a guy.
Hole got plugged on the rear and he had a blow out a couple of km' dow the higway.
Luckly also survived but superbike wrote off

Thanks once again for this thread-it might safe a life in future

 :thumleft: Remember - it just blew - NO warning of low pressure - so no "slow puncture"! It was repaired with that method (sorry - I'm no expert) where they grind the tyre on the inside to fit a gator or whatever - think they might have grind too much - thus weakening the structure of the tyre....

I disagree on the no low pressure or no slow puncture. The tyre tells a different story.

A tyre cannot delaminate in the way shown on the pictures unless there was heat build up and heat cannot build up with a correctly inflated tyre.

Air in a tyre amongst others does two important things

1. Keeps the tyre up. ( we all know this )
2. Keeps the tyre cool. ( very important )

If the pressure drops too low for the conditions it will start heating up.

As per normal science if the tyre starts heating up the air particles get more active and are further apart. This is not good as two things are happening

1. The air is getting hotter and the tyre also
2.  The Pressure in the tyre is also increasing

Now if this is not rectified the process becomes a chain reaction.

the more the tyre warms up, the more the air warms up, the further the air particles are apart, the less the air can cool and the more the pressure increases.

To a point where two things can happen

1. The tyre gets so hot it delaminates and goes flat quickly
2. Blow out.

There is more physics in the above but basically what happens is.

1. Puncture of some sorts ( a valve or bead leak or physical puncture)
2. Pressure drops
3. Tyres starts getting hot
4. pressure increases
5. Tyre gets hotter
6. Pressure increases more
7. Cycle carries unnoticed
8. Bang!!!!!!!!

SLOW LEAKS A DANGEROUS AND ARE ALMOST ALWAYS UNNOTICED. ( More so on tubeless tyres)


Give me a quick flat any day so i can fix it and move on. ( Happens more on tubed tyres)





I Agree 100%
As my gat jeuk krap ek hom met my bikes se seats!!!!


Current: '15 Honda VFR1200XD &  Honda VFR 1200 FD
 

Offline alanB

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Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
« Reply #236 on: April 17, 2015, 12:44:14 pm »
I dropped in at BMW this morning in George - and I must say I was really impressed by their friendliness & professionalism!!! They even thanked me for assisting the guy!  :thumleft: :thumleft: to BMW!
Out of respect towards them and the owner of the bike I'm not going to go into any details....
All I can say is that the damages to the 1200 is more or less enough to buy a new 800 GS !  :o
And then to the reason everybody has been speculating about - in short:
The tyre got punctured on the way from Cape Town, and was repaired by a "small town" tyre fitment centre - apparently incorrectly and weakening the casing in the process. It literally just blew more or less 200km later at the exact same "repaired spot"! And remember - it was on a hot summer day on the black stuff....
AN IMPORTANT LESSON TO ALL OF US - ESPECIALLY ON TUBELESS TYRES AND HYPER DS BIKES !!!  :deal:
F
Thank You  :biggrin:

Thank you mate, just as per my origional post: (caused by heat because of low tyre pressure)
A lot of people have learned from this thread, and for some other just a confirmation an a reminder to always check the tyre pressure and to be careful for plugging holes and continue at speed
Many holes are just to big to be plugged and some holes will damage and cut the tyre to the extend where it is too dangerous to use a plug.
I recall a superbike incident on the highway once where I assisted a guy.
Hole got plugged on the rear and he had a blow out a couple of km' dow the higway.
Luckly also survived but superbike wrote off

Thanks once again for this thread-it might safe a life in future

 :thumleft: Remember - it just blew - NO warning of low pressure - so no "slow puncture"! It was repaired with that method (sorry - I'm no expert) where they grind the tyre on the inside to fit a gator or whatever - think they might have grind too much - thus weakening the structure of the tyre....

I disagree on the no low pressure or no slow puncture. The tyre tells a different story.

A tyre cannot delaminate in the way shown on the pictures unless there was heat build up and heat cannot build up with a correctly inflated tyre.

Air in a tyre amongst others does two important things

1. Keeps the tyre up. ( we all know this )
2. Keeps the tyre cool. ( very important )

If the pressure drops too low for the conditions it will start heating up.

As per normal science if the tyre starts heating up the air particles get more active and are further apart. This is not good as two things are happening

1. The air is getting hotter and the tyre also
2.  The Pressure in the tyre is also increasing

Now if this is not rectified the process becomes a chain reaction.

the more the tyre warms up, the more the air warms up, the further the air particles are apart, the less the air can cool and the more the pressure increases.

To a point where two things can happen

1. The tyre gets so hot it delaminates and goes flat quickly
2. Blow out.

There is more physics in the above but basically what happens is.

1. Puncture of some sorts ( a valve or bead leak or physical puncture)
2. Pressure drops
3. Tyres starts getting hot
4. pressure increases
5. Tyre gets hotter
6. Pressure increases more
7. Cycle carries unnoticed
8. Bang!!!!!!!!

SLOW LEAKS A DANGEROUS AND ARE ALMOST ALWAYS UNNOTICED. ( More so on tubeless tyres)


Give me a quick flat any day so i can fix it and move on. ( Happens more on tubed tyres)






Heat does destroy tyres no doubt about it!  You see this often in the 4x4 forum with guys dropping their tyre pressures and then forgetting to pump them back up again before setting off at high speed when back on tar.

Just a quick slightly pedantic point on an interesting topic though - the heating mechanism is due to the underinflated tyre flexing excessively on each rotation, mostly at the side walls - as the rubber gets bent back and forth, it heats up from internal friction.  This heat has to be dissipated throughout the tyre on each rotation, mostly by cooling from the air flowing over the tyre.  If that cooling effect is not enough to dissipate the heat from the last rotation then more heat gets added on each subsequent rotation and you get an accumulation of heat which just keeps increasing.

Essentially more heat is being added than taken away via cooling on each rotation.  

So if the tyre is not being cooled enough on each rotation, then at high revs the tyre temp can quickly rise to very high levels which are beyond the mechanical limits of the rubber.

The internal air inside the tyre is not the heating mechanism, in fact as that air gets hotter (from contact with the hot tyre) the air pressure inside the tyre will increase and alleviate the problem slightly (by making the tyre firmer and thus allow less flex on each rotation), but obviously if the tyre pressure started too low, this effect may not be enough to stop the overall thermal run away.
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Offline IceCreamMan

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Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
« Reply #237 on: April 17, 2015, 01:04:03 pm »

when is the centre of gravity lower, when one is standing on a GS12 or when one is sitting on a GS12?



Don't fall for this trick question.  There is no such thing as a GS12!

exactly....never seen a GS12...must be very small though.

I would imagine the centre of gravity is lower when the tyre is flat though
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Offline Hans Ambulans

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Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC - final chapter.
« Reply #238 on: April 17, 2015, 01:18:53 pm »
Dont feel bad about sharing this post...not AT all . This was very informative. I personally took a few mental notes here, and I am sure a lot of other people too!
As far as the bickering is concerned....how can you blame APARTHEID for this?!!! It was all JAN VAN RIEBEECKS fault!
Gosh.....ek sukkel met julle.....
 

Offline silvrav

Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
« Reply #239 on: April 17, 2015, 02:15:07 pm »

when is the centre of gravity lower, when one is standing on a GS12 or when one is sitting on a GS12?



Don't fall for this trick question.  There is no such thing as a GS12!

exactly....never seen a GS12...must be very small though.

I would imagine the centre of gravity is lower when the tyre is flat though

ok ok, to answer, when one is standing....