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Offline Geriatrix

Re: GS Adventure Hit&Run
« Reply #80 on: April 26, 2015, 08:44:30 am »

No Alan, how about that same beggar stepping into your way , causing you to be badly injured? Would that be OK?  Or would you then classify him as a menace?

Pedestrian/jaywalker/Luke Skywalker, all should be in the street ONLY if they are in the process of crossing it, and then only at a place safe to do so, and then only after performing a certain ritual of safety actions, like looking right/left/right.
It is in the new SA that this phenomenon started being practised, of beggars simply parking off in the middle of the road.

Also ironic how the SAPS cannot investigate the simplest complaint brought before them, but hit and run's are now top priority?? What about rapes, abductions, armed robberies,
etc??

Your idea of right and wrong will make little difference to this rider's five years in prison. It depends upon whether some Duty Officer eventually decides to investigate the crash or not.
As many have said on this list, if you are not willing to face the consequences don't break the Law.

The original incident could have been passed off as the fault of the beggar, or a reasonable rider error, but leaving the scene of a crash when somebody was injured is blatant disregard of both the Law and the injured parson's rights.
From the description of injuries in the original post it is quite possible that the beggar could die in the government ( lack of ) medical care. This will then become a murder or manslaughter investigation.
Clinicians can contact the clinicians' hotline number on 0800 111 131 (for doctors only); and, in addition to 0800 029 999, the public can also contact the public hotline number on 0800 111 132. These lines all operate 24 hours a day.
 

Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: GS Adventure Hit&Run
« Reply #81 on: April 26, 2015, 08:53:12 am »

No Alan, how about that same beggar stepping into your way , causing you to be badly injured? Would that be OK?  Or would you then classify him as a menace?

Pedestrian/jaywalker/Luke Skywalker, all should be in the street ONLY if they are in the process of crossing it, and then only at a place safe to do so, and then only after performing a certain ritual of safety actions, like looking right/left/right.
It is in the new SA that this phenomenon started being practised, of beggars simply parking off in the middle of the road.

Also ironic how the SAPS cannot investigate the simplest complaint brought before them, but hit and run's are now top priority?? What about rapes, abductions, armed robberies,
etc??

Your idea of right and wrong will make little difference to this rider's five years in prison. It depends upon whether some Duty Officer eventually decides to investigate the crash or not.
As many have said on this list, if you are not willing to face the consequences don't break the Law.

The original incident could have been passed off as the fault of the beggar, or a reasonable rider error, but leaving the scene of a crash when somebody was injured is blatant disregard of both the Law and the injured parson's rights.
From the description of injuries in the original post it is quite possible that the beggar could die in the government ( lack of ) medical care. This will then become a murder or manslaughter investigation.

If the laws of this country has been so streniously applied as you advocate, this incident would not have occurred. It is illegal for a person to be standing in any traffic intersection, and if the law has not been able to over quite a few years to convince them of this, no sympathy for the beggar.  He endangers motorcyclists, which makes him
an undesirable in my opinion.
 

Offline Geriatrix

Re: GS Adventure Hit&Run
« Reply #82 on: April 26, 2015, 09:00:13 am »
If the laws of this country has been so streniously applied as you advocate, this incident would not have occurred. It is illegal for a person to be standing in any traffic intersection, and if the law has not been able to over quite a few years to convince them of this, no sympathy for the beggar.  He endangers motorcyclists, which makes him
an undesirable in my opinion.

The incident did occur. That is all we have to discuss.

I do advocate the enforcement of all laws, all of the time.
Clinicians can contact the clinicians' hotline number on 0800 111 131 (for doctors only); and, in addition to 0800 029 999, the public can also contact the public hotline number on 0800 111 132. These lines all operate 24 hours a day.
 

Offline Pumbaa

Re: Re: GS Adventure Hit&Run
« Reply #83 on: April 26, 2015, 09:00:18 am »
FFS people!  It does not matter if the beggar was standing there illegally, faking a limp or scratching his balls.  If you willingly hit ANY person on the road and scramble away, you are a coward with f-all integrity.  I cannot believe some of the shit excuses some of you are manufacturing...
I absolutely agree with you Mickey. Fucking lame excuses people come up with to try and justify the actions. Just shows the mentallity of some people and they are generally the first to bitch and moan about lawlessness and people not obeying the rules and laws of the country.
WTF, seriously guys!
 

Offline BennNevis

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Re: GS Adventure Hit&Run
« Reply #84 on: April 26, 2015, 09:03:18 am »
Jirre mense!
What was posted originally read like a holier than thou fellow biker that took more time in carefully describing the bikers action rather than the beggar's injuries. Care, almost pedantic, descriptive wording was used to describe how the wedged shaped handguard crashing into this poor persons shoulder lung area!? Hey lung in your shoulder area?
Ok
So now the guy might die in governent hospital and a level of CSI investigating going to take place to find the manslauterer/ murderer?

Have I missed something? Is tge victim in hospital?
 

Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: Re: GS Adventure Hit&Run
« Reply #85 on: April 26, 2015, 09:13:34 am »
FFS people!  It does not matter if the beggar was standing there illegally, faking a limp or scratching his balls.  If you willingly hit ANY person on the road and scramble away, you are a coward with f-all integrity.  I cannot believe some of the shit excuses some of you are manufacturing...
I absolutely agree with you Mickey. Fucking lame excuses people come up with to try and justify the actions. Just shows the mentallity of some people and they are generally the first to bitch and moan about lawlessness and people not obeying the rules and laws of the country.
WTF, seriously guys!

The rider could have stopped, and nobody would have been able to say that it was done intentionally, since it was a licensed motor vehicle used legally on a public road
hitting someone illegally trespassing on that road. So I think you can stop with the "coward" chorus.
Please remember that all opinions here are based on the observations of the OP, who is ACCUSING the biker of INTENTIONALLY hitting the person. Is the OP a trained
traffic accident investigator?
If that rider stopped, it could have been the start of litterally months of police ineptness in investigating, postponement of cases on the flimsiest excuses, and quite possibly
the nowadays very popular race card thrown in.
Some of the ILLEGAL vendors at the Somerset-West  VictoriaStreet/ N2 intersection actually force the bikers to go around them by moving in between the cars until the biker has passed them.
I feel that these "beggars" are making roads even more dangerous for me as a biker, and if this course of action will turn them to the pavement, then for the first time
evr.........Good on a GS rider. :thumleft:
 

Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: GS Adventure Hit&Run
« Reply #86 on: April 26, 2015, 09:23:51 am »

No Alan, how about that same beggar stepping into your way , causing you to be badly injured? Would that be OK?  Or would you then classify him as a menace?

Pedestrian/jaywalker/Luke Skywalker, all should be in the street ONLY if they are in the process of crossing it, and then only at a place safe to do so, and then only after performing a certain ritual of safety actions, like looking right/left/right.
It is in the new SA that this phenomenon started being practised, of beggars simply parking off in the middle of the road.

Also ironic how the SAPS cannot investigate the simplest complaint brought before them, but hit and run's are now top priority?? What about rapes, abductions, armed robberies,
etc??

Your idea of right and wrong will make little difference to this rider's five years in prison. It depends upon whether some Duty Officer eventually decides to investigate the crash or not.
As many have said on this list, if you are not willing to face the consequences don't break the Law.

The original incident could have been passed off as the fault of the beggar, or a reasonable rider error, but leaving the scene of a crash when somebody was injured is blatant disregard of both the Law and the injured parson's rights.
From the description of injuries in the original post it is quite possible that the beggar could die in the government ( lack of ) medical care. This will then become a murder or manslaughter investigation.

Geriatrics, my idea of right would liked me seeing that this duty-officer, who might now investigate this case, could have seen to it that the problem of beggars standing in busy intersections would have been squashed at first appearance. Instead it has been allowed to become a problem.
This while the law clearly states that  1. No pedestrian shall linger on a street, and  2. Motorcycles are allowed to lane-split.
 

Offline Geriatrix

Re: GS Adventure Hit&Run
« Reply #87 on: April 26, 2015, 09:55:17 am »
Geriatrics, my idea of right would liked me seeing that this duty-officer, who might now investigate this case, could have seen to it that the problem of beggars standing in busy intersections would have been squashed at first appearance. Instead it has been allowed to become a problem.
This while the law clearly states that  1. No pedestrian shall linger on a street, and  2. Motorcycles are allowed to lane-split.

As I have said, ALL laws should be enforced, all the time.

Bikers are NOT legally entitled to lane share. There are a few laws and regulations that suggest that this may be allowed IF IT IS SAFE TO DO SO. Since a person was hit and injured by a bike the requirement that lane sharing has to be safe was disregarded and by definition was illegal. That would attract a small fine. Riding in the middle of a lane would also be illegal if it endangered anyone.

The major crime was not stopping after a collision that resulted in an injury. That is a nasty law to break.

I have seen a fit young lady die after an isolated arm injury, treated at a very good hospital. Lung injury is quite possible with an injury to the shoulder area. The chest is tiger country so an impact near to the shoulder can do considerable damage.

Time to wrap this up since we are going in circles of personal opinion. Lets wait for the next development, or for more factual information.


BTW the Johannesburg Metro Police are trying to clear the roads of beggars, window washers, and muggers. The City claims that the intersections are a bit safer now, after something like 800 arrests this year.
Clinicians can contact the clinicians' hotline number on 0800 111 131 (for doctors only); and, in addition to 0800 029 999, the public can also contact the public hotline number on 0800 111 132. These lines all operate 24 hours a day.
 

Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: GS Adventure Hit&Run
« Reply #88 on: April 26, 2015, 10:08:50 am »
Geriatrics, my idea of right would liked me seeing that this duty-officer, who might now investigate this case, could have seen to it that the problem of beggars standing in busy intersections would have been squashed at first appearance. Instead it has been allowed to become a problem.
This while the law clearly states that  1. No pedestrian shall linger on a street, and  2. Motorcycles are allowed to lane-split.

As I have said, ALL laws should be enforced, all the time.

Bikers are NOT legally entitled to lane share. There are a few laws and regulations that suggest that this may be allowed IF IT IS SAFE TO DO SO. Since a person was hit and injured by a bike the requirement that lane sharing has to be safe was disregarded and by definition was illegal. That would attract a small fine. Riding in the middle of a lane would also be illegal if it endangered anyone.

The major crime was not stopping after a collision that resulted in an injury. That is a nasty law to break.

I have seen a fit young lady die after an isolated arm injury, treated at a very good hospital. Lung injury is quite possible with an injury to the shoulder area. The chest is tiger country so an impact near to the shoulder can do considerable damage.

Time to wrap this up since we are going in circles of personal opinion. Lets wait for the next development, or for more factual information.


BTW the Johannesburg Metro Police are trying to clear the roads of beggars, window washers, and muggers. The City claims that the intersections are a bit safer now, after something like 800 arrests this year.

I hope they start taking action, because it is simple inaction that now has us having to deal with major crime of all levels in SA.

The question gets ask on a far more frequent level nowadays; " Where must us normal citizens draw the line?"  IMO this rider drew the line.
 

Offline ahlbebuck

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Re: GS Adventure Hit&Run
« Reply #89 on: April 26, 2015, 10:36:43 am »
Jirre mense!
What was posted originally read like a holier than thou fellow biker that took more time in carefully describing the bikers action rather than the beggar's injuries. Care, almost pedantic, descriptive wording was used to describe how the wedged shaped handguard crashing into this poor persons shoulder lung area!? Hey lung in your shoulder area?
Ok
So now the guy might die in governent hospital and a level of CSI investigating going to take place to find the manslauterer/ murderer?

Have I missed something? Is tge victim in hospital?

Well said!

To the O.P.:

What did you ACTUALLY do to assist this victim? Did you get off your bike to help him? Or did you ride off when you saw the motorist getting out to help?

Did you stick around to give your very descriptive evidence to the cops? Did you get details of possible witnesses? Did you go to the police to report this heinous crime?

Or did you come and cry a river on this forum to "do your civic duty"?

Like all the sob stories on here, things will pan out so much different once the other side of the story is told....

As per 2SD - If the beggar did not break the law, the incident would not have taken place.

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Offline Swannie 685

Re: GS Adventure Hit&Run
« Reply #90 on: April 26, 2015, 10:52:08 am »
@ MillionMiles,

Hou op so jammerhartig te wees. Die Beggar/Vendor het sy g@t gesien en klaar. Maar as dit jou beter sal laat voel, maak dan maar van hom `n martyr.

Indien hy die oorsaak was dat jou kind op sy motorfiets dood verongeluk het,sou jy nog dieselfde gevoel het ?

Dis altyd "the poor oke this" en "the poor oke that" My siening is "F@ck the poor okes" Hy hoort nie in die middel van die pad nie - finish en klaar.

 :ricky:

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Offline TheBear

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Re: GS Adventure Hit&Run
« Reply #91 on: April 26, 2015, 11:01:24 am »
@ MillionMiles,

Hou op so jammerhartig te wees. Die Beggar/Vendor het sy g@t gesien en klaar. Maar as dit jou beter sal laat voel, maak dan maar van hom `n martyr.

Indien hy die oorsaak was dat jou kind op sy motorfiets dood verongeluk het,sou jy nog dieselfde gevoel het ?

Dis altyd "the poor oke this" en "the poor oke that" My siening is "F@ck the poor okes" Hy hoort nie in die middel van die pad nie - finish en klaar.

 :ricky:



As dit jou kind was wat onwettig op die pad was en desmoers gery is deur 'n voertuig wat dan nie gestop het nie?   F@ck the poor okes?   Inderdaad.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2015, 11:02:35 am by AMZ »
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Offline alanB

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Re: GS Adventure Hit&Run
« Reply #92 on: April 26, 2015, 11:03:35 am »
There only three things irritating me about this incident:

1) If a motorcyclist even gets a dirty look from a car driver then everyone is up in arms and wants to go around handing out PK's and organising gangs to go visit the offender etc.  The argument goes that we are more vulnerable on the road and motorists should be more aware and take care because our lives are at stake etc which is actually a reasonable argument (before the discussion descends into PK's etc).  But many motorists view motorcyclists (and cyclists) as a nuisance and retort that if its so dangerous we shouldn't be on our bikes on the road in the first place, so they are entitled to behave any way they want.  But now the shoe is on the other foot and we behave exactly the same - pure hypocrisy!

2) I have no idea what race the beggar was, and its completely irrelevant, but there are many reasons why someone could land up on the street begging (alcohol, drugs, business failure, family problems, bankruptcy, mental issues etc) and none of us here are immune, other than the grace of God.  The underlying theme here is that just because these guys are irritating, and should not be there (which I completely agree with), does not entitle you to mow them down and treat them as sub human which many here seem to be condoning.  If you ever land up in that situation then you would hope that others would not do the same to you surely?

3) Saying that you are entitled to cause serious bodily harm to anyone who is in the road that shouldn't be there is also hypocritical, because if your child wonders into the road where they should not be you would expect any motorist to take care and do what they can to avoid them.  If a motorist could have avoided your child but instead deliberately ran them over would you say that's OK?

If this was just a simple accident caused by the beggar then it would a completely different situation, but as I understand it, this was just some asshole running over a beggar unnecessarily because the beggar irritated him!  The one is an accident and the other is a combination of a number of fairly serious crimes depending on the extent of the injuries to the beggar!

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Offline TheBear

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Re: GS Adventure Hit&Run
« Reply #93 on: April 26, 2015, 11:05:33 am »

As per 2SD - If the beggar did not break the law, the incident would not have taken place.



Ah?  Open season on law breakers,  eh?   Does does apply to a biker doing 100 in a 60 zone?   
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Offline ahlbebuck

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Re: GS Adventure Hit&Run
« Reply #94 on: April 26, 2015, 11:16:17 am »

As per 2SD - If the beggar did not break the law, the incident would not have taken place.



Ah?  Open season on law breakers,  eh?   Does does apply to a biker doing 100 in a 60 zone?   

Shit argument.

My statement is simple logic. Cause & effect.
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Offline TheBear

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Re: GS Adventure Hit&Run
« Reply #95 on: April 26, 2015, 11:24:26 am »

As per 2SD - If the beggar did not break the law, the incident would not have taken place.



Ah?  Open season on law breakers,  eh?   Does does apply to a biker doing 100 in a 60 zone?   

Shit argument.

My statement is simple logic. Cause & effect.

Actually,  it was 2SD's statement that may,  or may not be simple logic.   You just quoted him,  so which statement of yours is simple. logic?   

Although you have declared my statement a shit argument,  I disagree.   I am. asking a simple question.  I am. interested to see if anyone can give a simple answer.   You didn't.
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Offline BennNevis

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Re: GS Adventure Hit&Run
« Reply #96 on: April 26, 2015, 11:37:00 am »
I agree that intentional action to harm anyone should not be encouraged or condoned
My take on OP was that it was oh so PC to the extent of being irritating and in MY mind i question the facts as to much emphasis was put on insignificant details with the core issues being neglected
OP did you stop and render assistance and did you offer your details as witness?

Next time when a pedestrian steps out between cars and causes an incident to maybe yourself, maybe then you might report it differently and peel back all the layers that caused this to happen. Not the socio economic reasons, just the general lack of civil obediance that would not allow informal trade or begging between cars

A friend was victim to an accident where a fucker ran out in front of him and put him into a coma and a slow recovery to being able to run his business again with incredible expense both physically  and emotionally.
Guess what?
I am pretty sure he still has to defend himself in a MS case
 

Offline badseed

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Re: GS Adventure Hit&Run
« Reply #97 on: April 26, 2015, 11:56:34 am »
Instead of beating each other up on the forum why don't the do good guys start putting pressure on authorities to stop the beggars at traffic lights. Speak to your local traffic chief and your MP.

It's kind of inevitable that some sort of vigilante expression will arise when nothing gets done by the law officers. 75 people on average die on our roads every day , a figure that makes the Iraq war look like a tea party but the authorities do nothing
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Re: GS Adventure Hit&Run
« Reply #98 on: April 26, 2015, 12:09:12 pm »
Instead of beating each other up on the forum why don't the do good guys start putting pressure on authorities to stop the beggars at traffic lights. Speak to your local traffic chief and your MP.

It's kind of inevitable that some sort of vigilante expression will arise when nothing gets done by the law officers. 75 people on average die on our roads every day , a figure that makes the Iraq war look like a tea party but the authorities do nothing

Thats a good point - why dont WE get off our arses and actually hold the authorities accountable?  A lot of stuff could be sorted out in this country if WE actually did that IMO!

I also think that 75 people per day death rate is at least in part due to the very aggressive homicidal attitude the average SA driver (regardless of race, gender and income) adopts when they drive out onto the road. 

You don't find people putting each other in hospital when they walk around in shopping malls for example.  Just this morning I went shopping.  I was repeatedly cut off, and had to walk slower than I wanted to, had to go the long way round to get to the aisles I wanted and had to queue unnecessarily and that was just in the Pick n Pay, but not once did I or anyone else throw anyone off their feet, break bones or anything else.  We all just behaved politely to one another - as we should. 

But get behind the wheel and then well - its death to the offenders!  This discussion is a clear indication that its considered perfectly acceptable to basically murder anyone who does anything "wrong" on the roads, where "wrong" means anything that we personally don't like, which includes being merely irritating!

You don't find that in other countries, which is why they don't have the atrocious death rates we have here!

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Re: GS Adventure Hit&Run
« Reply #99 on: April 26, 2015, 12:54:57 pm »
I heard it was a guy on a KTM and the beggar slipped on the oil that leaked while the KTM was waiting for the light to turn green.  The KTM took off at an unusual speed to get to the dealer before all the oil had leaked out.  >:D

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« Last Edit: April 26, 2015, 01:01:37 pm by Dorsland »
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