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Offline Bundu

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Re: cast aliminium bash plate
« Reply #60 on: May 27, 2015, 07:03:00 pm »
amazing! really impressed  :thumleft:
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Offline katana

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Re: cast aliminium bash plate
« Reply #61 on: May 28, 2015, 05:59:46 am »
Very very nice  :thumleft:

From a cost perspective.  Say this bashplate was good for one decent hit and had to get replaced, what would it cost to replace?  Would a welded bashplate be more cost effective?
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Offline Sprocketbek

Re: cast aliminium bash plate
« Reply #62 on: May 28, 2015, 06:26:15 am »
so how does one test this - its been whacked a few times with no damage other than small dents to my nicely ground shape , I dont fancy riding hard at the nearest rock to see what happens - its not so much the hard bike but the soft thing attached to it I am concerned about - it might well end up in some helmet therapy  :biggrin:

Sell them for $1000 each & wait for come-backs  :imaposer:

On a serious note, I agree with LS, also amazed at the final first product  :thumleft:
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Offline BFG

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Re: cast aliminium bash plate
« Reply #63 on: May 28, 2015, 08:32:18 am »
Well done, that's really impressive.
Give a whack with a big hammer and see what happens.
 

Offline the_BOBNOB

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Re: cast aliminium bash plate
« Reply #64 on: May 28, 2015, 08:40:39 am »
Very very nice  :thumleft:

From a cost perspective.  Say this bashplate was good for one decent hit and had to get replaced, what would it cost to replace?  Would a welded bashplate be more cost effective?

what is a "good hit" ???

are we talking rocks and stuff spit up by the front wheels or are you guys doing trails riding with your bikes and actually smashing it on giants rocks and boulders ???
 

Offline shanti

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Re: cast aliminium bash plate
« Reply #65 on: May 28, 2015, 09:04:58 am »
thanks for the positive replies , have been giving it many good whacks and so far its held up , the surface gets dented a bit and there is some movement in the plate - its very strong . Very busy at the moment with some dead lines which will take me till mid next week . I will revisit this project then . I can change the alloy slightly and anneal the aluminium to take it a bit more flexible and I would like  to build up the front to add some attachment points that work on the engine mounting holes .
Trying to work out a costing - here is the breakdown

R75 aluminium - its R39 per kg so having to try factor in the costs of me getting the ali ( I am in Knysna so I courier up my ali from CPT )
R340 labour for my two guys for the day - takes a couple of hours to set up the mould , a few more to pour and release from the mould and a couple more to fettle and drill out the attachment points
R130 in gas for a melt , I pour a few other things with this melt so a bit fuzzy here . I could probably do 4 in a pour accounting for the runners , risers and cup .
R20 gas for annealing
R30 for consumables - grinding , cutting , drilling
R&D no idea but could probably never recover that time cost unless I was producing lots .
R595 base costs
I guess a thumb suck with some tom for me would come out to +/- R1000 per item on the current model
If I manage to get the strength vs bendyness ? right probably a little more depending on the alloy

To be honest havn't thought that far

Offline shanti

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Re: cast aliminium bash plate
« Reply #66 on: May 28, 2015, 09:07:51 am »
Very very nice  :thumleft:

From a cost perspective.  Say this bashplate was good for one decent hit and had to get replaced, what would it cost to replace?  Would a welded bashplate be more cost effective?

what is a "good hit" ???

are we talking rocks and stuff spit up by the front wheels or are you guys doing trails riding with your bikes and actually smashing it on giants rocks and boulders ???


Rocks and stuff kicked up from the front wheel - no problem ( have whacked the plate as hard as I can with various hammers ) - smashing into rocks at high speed - I guess there is limits mostlly determined by the survivability of the rider on top as to being able to view the damage afterwards :)

Offline shanti

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Re: cast aliminium bash plate
« Reply #67 on: May 28, 2015, 09:27:36 am »
beginnings of version #2

Offline briv

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Re: cast aliminium bash plate
« Reply #68 on: May 28, 2015, 09:31:48 am »
Very interesting work  :thumleft: The standard bash plate on KTM 990 is also a cast aluminium job and it stands up quite well to the elements, it has a cross pastern on the inside to strengthen it. The bottom one is the plate type replacement.
  
« Last Edit: May 28, 2015, 09:43:38 am by briv »
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Offline katana

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Re: cast aliminium bash plate
« Reply #69 on: May 28, 2015, 10:02:34 am »
thanks for the positive replies , have been giving it many good whacks and so far its held up , the surface gets dented a bit and there is some movement in the plate - its very strong . Very busy at the moment with some dead lines which will take me till mid next week . I will revisit this project then . I can change the alloy slightly and anneal the aluminium to take it a bit more flexible and I would like  to build up the front to add some attachment points that work on the engine mounting holes .
Trying to work out a costing - here is the breakdown

R75 aluminium - its R39 per kg so having to try factor in the costs of me getting the ali ( I am in Knysna so I courier up my ali from CPT )
R340 labour for my two guys for the day - takes a couple of hours to set up the mould , a few more to pour and release from the mould and a couple more to fettle and drill out the attachment points
R130 in gas for a melt , I pour a few other things with this melt so a bit fuzzy here . I could probably do 4 in a pour accounting for the runners , risers and cup .
R20 gas for annealing
R30 for consumables - grinding , cutting , drilling
R&D no idea but could probably never recover that time cost unless I was producing lots .
R595 base costs
I guess a thumb suck with some tom for me would come out to +/- R1000 per item on the current model
If I manage to get the strength vs bendyness ? right probably a little more depending on the alloy

To be honest havn't thought that far

If it absorbs enough energy to crack, R1000 is not too bad to replace it.  Well done.  A whole new way of thinking about casting.
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Offline Warren Ellwood

Re: cast aliminium bash plate
« Reply #70 on: May 28, 2015, 10:32:55 am »
Awesome  :thumleft:.
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Offline growweblaar

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Re: cast aliminium bash plate
« Reply #71 on: May 28, 2015, 04:21:47 pm »
Bear in mind that if this one does crack after hitting a rock, it might be because you hit it many times previously with a hammer  ;D
 

Offline Straatkat

Re: cast aliminium bash plate
« Reply #72 on: May 28, 2015, 07:02:25 pm »
Maybe a good thing to try avoid is big hammers when out riding...
Shanti, I was sceptical at first, having done a fair amount of Ally casting in my life, but your bashplate looks great. In my opinion a bash plate like this will stand up to the rigours of riding off road for a very long time. How many bashplates do you see that has taken many big hits to the extent that it will break yours? My guess is not many. Well done.
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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: cast aliminium bash plate
« Reply #73 on: May 28, 2015, 08:13:42 pm »
Shanti, thanks for taking us through this very interesting experiment, and a seemingly very successful one, with you.

I really like what you have done.
 

Offline shanti

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Re: cast aliminium bash plate
« Reply #74 on: May 29, 2015, 08:33:26 am »
a friend came round last night saw what I was doing and wants his plastic bashplate on his xt660z transformed into aluminium after seeing mine . This one is a bit more complex . I will try this with a new alloy and see what kind of result I get - I explained that this is untested and generally going against the grain - we tested mine again for strength and 'bendability ' and were quite happy to go forward .
Mine is on my bike and will stay there - must admit even though I live on farm roads and do lots of forest riding in my area I dont tend to go up many rocky stream beds etc with my 650 - I rather use a smaller bike for going that rough so not sure how much beating my bike will have in its test period .

IF this works and the metal comes out right there are quite a few bikes that could do with aluminiumizing their oem plastic bashplates 

Offline shanti

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Re: cast aliminium bash plate
« Reply #75 on: May 29, 2015, 08:35:48 am »
1 - YZ450F
2 - KTM
3 - WR250

etc....

Offline Mr Zog

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Re: cast aliminium bash plate
« Reply #76 on: May 29, 2015, 08:40:08 am »
Shanti, your bashplate is brilliant, and I think it will hold up just fine for the type of riding you describe you do.

Just as an aside, if you plan to make copies for other bikes on a commercial basis, just make a few "minor" changes and modifications so you don't run into "issues" about copyright or patent infringement etc...  :thumleft:
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Offline shanti

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Re: cast aliminium bash plate
« Reply #77 on: May 29, 2015, 08:47:55 am »
thanks Mr Zog - no mind for anything commercial yet . to be honest at the end of the day casting art pieces and aluminium outdoor furniture is much more economically viable , I tend to run away with my play - although I did modify the KLR bashplate even though it was more for strength reasons  it does now look 'different '

Offline alanB

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Re: cast aliminium bash plate
« Reply #78 on: May 29, 2015, 09:43:09 pm »
Wow!

That looks great  :thumleft:

I suppose only time and testing will tell if it stands up to the rigours of actual riding.  But to me that looks very neat!

Personally I think of things like bash plates as sacrificial consumables - you want them to break instead of the bike, so there is no point in making them too strong because then they just transmit the forces onto something else that breaks instead.

Also strength usually = weight which is the enemy.

Its the same in the 4x4 world  - guys make these massively strong bumpers and things, but then bolt them directly onto the car's chassis,  So if they hit anything all that force now gets transmitted straight onto the chassis - personally I would prefer a bent bumper to a bent chassis.

My bash plate has lead a hard life.  Its constantly taking quite heavy knocks.  Here's a photo from a year or so ago, its looking a bit worse now  :P



Its saved the engine from certain damage a few times, but it is starting to develop a few cracks so its probably going to need replacement soon.

Its not pretty but it works  :thumleft:

Yours looks a lot smarter  :thumleft:




« Last Edit: May 29, 2015, 09:44:43 pm by alanB »
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Offline alanB

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Re: cast aliminium bash plate
« Reply #79 on: May 30, 2015, 06:11:06 am »
thanks for the positive replies , have been giving it many good whacks and so far its held up , the surface gets dented a bit and there is some movement in the plate - its very strong . Very busy at the moment with some dead lines which will take me till mid next week . I will revisit this project then . I can change the alloy slightly and anneal the aluminium to take it a bit more flexible and I would like  to build up the front to add some attachment points that work on the engine mounting holes .
Trying to work out a costing - here is the breakdown

R75 aluminium - its R39 per kg so having to try factor in the costs of me getting the ali ( I am in Knysna so I courier up my ali from CPT )
R340 labour for my two guys for the day - takes a couple of hours to set up the mould , a few more to pour and release from the mould and a couple more to fettle and drill out the attachment points
R130 in gas for a melt , I pour a few other things with this melt so a bit fuzzy here . I could probably do 4 in a pour accounting for the runners , risers and cup .
R20 gas for annealing
R30 for consumables - grinding , cutting , drilling
R&D no idea but could probably never recover that time cost unless I was producing lots .
R595 base costs
I guess a thumb suck with some tom for me would come out to +/- R1000 per item on the current model
If I manage to get the strength vs bendyness ? right probably a little more depending on the alloy

To be honest havn't thought that far

If you plan to distribute these (which I think you should be because this is a very neat product IMO) you need to factor in a retail margin as well - so that the guys selling for you make some money as well, and that must be enough to make it worth their while.  And there must also be enough in there to cover logistics as well.  People dont think of these things, but if you dont factor those costs in then the market price is set too low, your customers think its a good thing but you cant sustain the supply chain on that and the product dies.

Seen this happen over again with promising new products on the market.
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