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Offline TheBear

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Re: Pirelli Bike of the Year – And the winner is:
« Reply #20 on: August 20, 2015, 05:01:04 pm »
Nothing against the bike,  but I am a tad disappointed about the result.   Three years running now the biggest,  most expensive,  most powerful bike won.   It seems value for money,  all round usability,  etc.  does not count much.
#33 #BRADICAL!
 

Offline 2-Stroke

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Re: Pirelli Bike of the Year – And the winner is:
« Reply #21 on: August 20, 2015, 05:48:44 pm »
We
Nothing against the bike,  but I am a tad disappointed about the result.   Three years running now the biggest,  most expensive,  most powerful bike won.   It seems value for money,  all round usability,  etc.  does not count much.

Well, the Triumph did come a very close second. The Wow Factor does play big role. The bike also received a lot of respect because of its engineering boldness and pioneering. There would have been far greater backlash if something like the NC750 or the Harley 750 had won.
 

Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: Pirelli Bike of the Year – And the winner is:
« Reply #22 on: August 20, 2015, 06:43:04 pm »
Daars net een WA!...dis n KaWA!!
 

Offline TheBear

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Re: Pirelli Bike of the Year – And the winner is:
« Reply #23 on: August 20, 2015, 07:04:04 pm »
We
Nothing against the bike,  but I am a tad disappointed about the result.   Three years running now the biggest,  most expensive,  most powerful bike won.   It seems value for money,  all round usability,  etc.  does not count much.

Well, the Triumph did come a very close second. The Wow Factor does play big role. The bike also received a lot of respect because of its engineering boldness and pioneering. There would have been far greater backlash if something like the NC750 or the Harley 750 had won.

I am the only one who said anything against the winner.   Would. a reader backlash be two people then?    :lol8:

If a NC of baby Harley cannot possibly win,  why would they be entered?
#33 #BRADICAL!
 

Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: Pirelli Bike of the Year – And the winner is:
« Reply #24 on: August 20, 2015, 07:25:33 pm »
"Cycle World" called the new R1 Yamaha a game changer, and found it absolutely brilliant.

Be honest, the Kawa has a super-charger bolted on, and what??  Slower around the track [it is a litre-class superbike after all] than most superbikes, and even while I can understand the hype over a SC fitted to a production bike, there is little new in this technology, unless the year is 1943 and you are looking at a P51 Mustang.

D/S bikes have long ago changed to fat dirt Goldwings, are superbikes following them?
 

Offline TheBear

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Re: Pirelli Bike of the Year – And the winner is:
« Reply #25 on: August 20, 2015, 07:28:00 pm »
"Cycle World" called the new R1 Yamaha a game changer, and found it absolutely brilliant.

Be honest, the Kawa has a super-charger bolted on, and what??  Slower around the track [it is a litre-class superbike after all] than most superbikes, and even while I can understand the hype over a SC fitted to a production bike, there is little new in this technology, unless the year is 1943 and you are looking at a P51 Mustang.

D/S bikes have long ago changed to fat dirt Goldwings, are superbikes following them?

No,  because the R1 is considered a game changer and has been found absolute brilliant.  :lol8:
« Last Edit: August 20, 2015, 07:28:45 pm by AMZ »
#33 #BRADICAL!
 

Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: Pirelli Bike of the Year – And the winner is:
« Reply #26 on: August 20, 2015, 08:06:08 pm »
 :laughing4: :thumleft:
 

Offline TheBear

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Re: Pirelli Bike of the Year – And the winner is:
« Reply #27 on: August 20, 2015, 08:28:29 pm »
:laughing4: :thumleft:

I. have not ridden any of them and even if I did,  trundling around at safe,  old man speeds wouldn't say much,  but that R1 is certainly ruffling feathers.   Can't wait to see it in WSBK,  hopefully next year already.   They are certainly giving notice in WSBK Superstock 1000 as well as in SBK in a few countries around the world.
#33 #BRADICAL!
 

Offline 2-Stroke

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Re: Pirelli Bike of the Year – And the winner is:
« Reply #28 on: August 20, 2015, 08:43:25 pm »
"Cycle World" called the new R1 Yamaha a game changer, and found it absolutely brilliant.

Be honest, the Kawa has a super-charger bolted on, and what??  Slower around the track [it is a litre-class superbike after all] than most superbikes, and even while I can understand the hype over a SC fitted to a production bike, there is little new in this technology, unless the year is 1943 and you are looking at a P51 Mustang.

D/S bikes have long ago changed to fat dirt Goldwings, are superbikes following them?

Yeah, they only bolted a supercharger on, and that doesn't sound too difficult, but then no other manufacturer has done it, so it is a first.

An interesting story - when I rode the H2 on BotY, I thought it was absolutely terrifying. You have to take a deep breath and brace yourself every time you open the throttle. Straight after the H2, I rode the S1000RR, which is similar to the R1, and thought "oh good, I nice timid bike to get my nerves back". An S1000RR!
 

Offline roxenz

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Re: Pirelli Bike of the Year – And the winner is:
« Reply #29 on: August 21, 2015, 09:41:45 am »
Thanks for posting 2-Stroke!  I actually thought this year's BOTY compo more interesting than previous few years.  And the results are interesting too.  Just glad I don't have to do it - just imagine writing on how the Kawa H2 feels when going through the bends at 80kph....  How does one report on the gearbox if you never left 1st?    :imaposer:
 

Offline CycleC

Re: Pirelli Bike of the Year – And the winner is:
« Reply #30 on: August 21, 2015, 10:53:05 am »
In my humble opinion, Bike of the year is not a true reflection of what Joe public would vote for, they have a handful of journo's choosing the bike. obviously a motoring journo would choose the fastest , maddest bike out there, Worst of all 80% of those journo's are road bike biased. The competition should be broken into segments. Road, Trail, Dirt - That way a true reflection could be reached. each bike should be put through the same tests and maybe a better result could be achieved with a winner in each segment. As it stand now its a farce - it makes no sense to ME to choose a bike that maybe 20-30 people in SA will buy.
An adventure bike can go through a deep mud puddle, but can a road bike ?? - NO. A Road bike can do 280kph- can an Adventure bike - NO. So they need to compare apples with apples not apples with a jetski

Just my opinion
 

Offline 2-Stroke

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Re: Pirelli Bike of the Year – And the winner is:
« Reply #31 on: August 21, 2015, 11:08:40 am »
In my humble opinion, Bike of the year is not a true reflection of what Joe public would vote for, they have a handful of journo's choosing the bike. obviously a motoring journo would choose the fastest , maddest bike out there, Worst of all 80% of those journo's are road bike biased. The competition should be broken into segments. Road, Trail, Dirt - That way a true reflection could be reached. each bike should be put through the same tests and maybe a better result could be achieved with a winner in each segment. As it stand now its a farce - it makes no sense to ME to choose a bike that maybe 20-30 people in SA will buy.
An adventure bike can go through a deep mud puddle, but can a road bike ?? - NO. A Road bike can do 280kph- can an Adventure bike - NO. So they need to compare apples with apples not apples with a jetski

Just my opinion

But that's exactly what happened. Each bike is judged on how it stacks up against the peers in its class, not "here's 16 bikes, which would you buy?" That's why a Triumph 800 nearly won it this year and a GS won the first one.
 

Offline TheBear

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Re: Pirelli Bike of the Year – And the winner is:
« Reply #32 on: August 21, 2015, 11:18:12 am »

But that's exactly what happened. Each bike is judged on how it stacks up against the peers in its class, not "here's 16 bikes, which would you buy?" That's why a Triumph 800 nearly won it this year and a GS won the first one.

I understand this, but I am starting to think you are getting it wrong?

You, yourself stated that you expect an outcry if a NC Honda or the 750 HD won.  Surely it could if it stacked up well enough against its peers.  The problem is, what would be the peers to some bike?  What would be a peer to the H2 or a NC750?
#33 #BRADICAL!
 

Offline Alan

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Re: Pirelli Bike of the Year – And the winner is:
« Reply #33 on: August 21, 2015, 11:31:28 am »
Exactly the same result as the Car of the year.. Porsche have won it 3 years in a row..
I found an article where a judge explained how they come to this result. It's got F A to do with consumerism per se'. They score the cars on a sliding scale, the car with the highest score, wins. So it's the car with the highest scores across the board, on the day, or best of everything.. I believe the Bike judging criterion is probably identical.
 

Offline TheBear

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Re: Pirelli Bike of the Year – And the winner is:
« Reply #34 on: August 21, 2015, 11:58:24 am »
Exactly the same result as the Car of the year.. Porsche have won it 3 years in a row..
I found an article where a judge explained how they come to this result. It's got F A to do with consumerism per se'. They score the cars on a sliding scale, the car with the highest score, wins. So it's the car with the highest scores across the board, on the day, or best of everything.. I believe the Bike judging criterion is probably identical.

That is sad.  In years gone by smaller, cheaper cars did also win.
#33 #BRADICAL!
 

Offline 2-Stroke

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Re: Pirelli Bike of the Year – And the winner is:
« Reply #35 on: August 21, 2015, 01:43:27 pm »

But that's exactly what happened. Each bike is judged on how it stacks up against the peers in its class, not "here's 16 bikes, which would you buy?" That's why a Triumph 800 nearly won it this year and a GS won the first one.

I understand this, but I am starting to think you are getting it wrong?

You, yourself stated that you expect an outcry if a NC Honda or the 750 HD won.  Surely it could if it stacked up well enough against its peers.  The problem is, what would be the peers to some bike?  What would be a peer to the H2 or a NC750?

Let me put it another way - the bikes are judged according to the roles they set out to achieve and how well they achieved them, especially if they have existing rivals. Then there is a Wow Factor which counts for 30% of the score, because these are motorcycles and not Korean hatchbacks.

I didn't say there'd by outcry, but I did say that there'd be more criticism if something considered boring won.

No matter what bike wins, there are going to be criticisms. That's part of the goals of BotY - to get people talking. To stimulate the industry.

As far as I'm concerned, job done.

May I also ask, which of the finalists would be considered affordable?
 

Offline TheBear

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Re: Pirelli Bike of the Year – And the winner is:
« Reply #36 on: August 21, 2015, 01:52:07 pm »

But that's exactly what happened. Each bike is judged on how it stacks up against the peers in its class, not "here's 16 bikes, which would you buy?" That's why a Triumph 800 nearly won it this year and a GS won the first one.

I understand this, but I am starting to think you are getting it wrong?

You, yourself stated that you expect an outcry if a NC Honda or the 750 HD won.  Surely it could if it stacked up well enough against its peers.  The problem is, what would be the peers to some bike?  What would be a peer to the H2 or a NC750?

Let me put it another way - the bikes are judged according to the roles they set out to achieve and how well they achieved them, especially if they have existing rivals. Then there is a Wow Factor which counts for 30% of the score, because these are motorcycles and not Korean hatchbacks.

I didn't say there'd by outcry, but I did say that there'd be more criticism if something considered boring won.

No matter what bike wins, there are going to be criticisms. That's part of the goals of BotY - to get people talking. To stimulate the industry.

As far as I'm concerned, job done.

May I also ask, which of the finalists would be considered affordable?

Well, okay.  You said there would be a "backlash".  Sort of similar to an outcry.

Of course there will be criticisms.  Even if you change it all to please me 100%, there will still be criticisms.  It would also get people talking, regardless of how you do it.  

As far as I am concerned, you should have said: "job WELL done".   That would be the aim, imho.

I don't know what is affordable.  It changes depending on the person.

The point is, Donovan, you guys can do it anyway you like.  It is after all your competition.  You can then choose whether you listen to criticism that comes in, or not.  Also your choice.  
« Last Edit: August 21, 2015, 01:54:55 pm by AMZ »
#33 #BRADICAL!
 

Offline 2-Stroke

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Re: Pirelli Bike of the Year – And the winner is:
« Reply #37 on: August 21, 2015, 02:05:12 pm »

But that's exactly what happened. Each bike is judged on how it stacks up against the peers in its class, not "here's 16 bikes, which would you buy?" That's why a Triumph 800 nearly won it this year and a GS won the first one.

I understand this, but I am starting to think you are getting it wrong?

You, yourself stated that you expect an outcry if a NC Honda or the 750 HD won.  Surely it could if it stacked up well enough against its peers.  The problem is, what would be the peers to some bike?  What would be a peer to the H2 or a NC750?

Let me put it another way - the bikes are judged according to the roles they set out to achieve and how well they achieved them, especially if they have existing rivals. Then there is a Wow Factor which counts for 30% of the score, because these are motorcycles and not Korean hatchbacks.

I didn't say there'd by outcry, but I did say that there'd be more criticism if something considered boring won.

No matter what bike wins, there are going to be criticisms. That's part of the goals of BotY - to get people talking. To stimulate the industry.

As far as I'm concerned, job done.

May I also ask, which of the finalists would be considered affordable?

Well, okay.  You said there would be a "backlash".  Sort of similar to an outcry.

Of course there will be criticisms.  Even if you change it all to please me 100%, there will still be criticisms.  It would also get people talking, regardless of how you do it.  

As far as I am concerned, you should have said: "job WELL done".   That would be the aim, imho.

I don't know what is affordable.  It changes depending on the person.

The point is, Donovan, you guys can do it anyway you like.  It is after all your competition.  You can then choose whether you listen to criticism that comes in, or not.  Also your choice.  

It's not my event, mate. It's Mat and Harry's. I was invited like everyone else that took part.  O0

I am listening to criticism, but I'm also trying to say that with the way the rules are set out, the builders of big, expensive bikes, this year (with the exception of the Triumph), are doing a better job than the builders of cheaper bikes.
 

Offline boland

Re: Pirelli Bike of the Year – And the winner is:
« Reply #38 on: August 21, 2015, 02:09:11 pm »
I'm very impressed with the Triumph. If I ever get a big bike that will be very high on my list :thumleft:
 

Offline 2-Stroke

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Re: Pirelli Bike of the Year – And the winner is:
« Reply #39 on: August 21, 2015, 02:23:11 pm »
Here's the press release that Mat sent out:

//press release//

PIRELLI SA Bike of the Year 2015

Supercharged win for Kawasaki H2

After three days of riding some of the finest roads South Africa has to offer the 13 judges on this year’s Pirelli Bike of the Year competition had just two further days to cast their votes. The final reckoning was always going to be close, 15 of 2015’s finest bikes were up for consideration, with models from many different classes vying for contention.

All bikes are fitted with suitable tyres from the Pirelli range, filled with Total fuel, navigated and filmed by TomTom while riders and bikes are lubricated and cleaned by Liqui Moly’s range of biking accessories.

Motorcycles are evaluated within their respective categories, across a range of criteria that includes ride and handling, to value for money and that indefinable ‘wow’ factor. Superbikes are the dominant force in this year’s competition, with a strong showing from the adventure and cruiser classes.

Several of this year’s entrants could easily be justified as a winner, but the one bike that never fails to leave a lasting impression is Kawasaki’s H2. The addition of a supercharger to this one-litre in-line four-cylinder superbike transforms what you know of acceleration. And it’s not averse to a set of corners either, which is a bonus on a bike where outright top speed and bragging rights are at stake.

Nothing looks like it, nothing goes like it, and the bravery and innovation of Kawasaki’s engineers in taking this new tangent within the superbike category undoubtedly impressed many of the judges.

The H2, at R310 000, is admittedly the most expensive bike in the competition, but many judges thought not excessively so, given a world of R250 000 superbikes and R220 000 adventure bikes. In such times, the H2 might even be regarded as something of a bargain.

To many of the judges’ delight, despite being a fiendishly clever work of engineering excellence the H2 is also very silly, completely unnecessary and unashamedly politically incorrect. And very, very fast.

Yamaha’s R1, in third place overall, is the best of the ‘traditional’ superbikes – where lap times are more important than top speed – and Triumph’s Tiger did the adventure class proud with its strong second place overall.

Kawasaki H2: Pirelli Bike of the Year SA   2015

2nd   Triumph Tiger XCx
3rd   Yamaha R1
4th   Aprilia RSV4
5th    KTM Super Adventure
6th   Yamaha Tracer

Assorted official judges’ comments about the Kawasaki H2:  “This thing will make the speech-impaired speak, and the speakers speechless.”

“Innovation, pioneering and unmatched thrill – three words that earn a motorcycle the top spot.”

“In a few years’ time it will be remembered as the first in a growing trend towards forced induction in motorcycles. The engine is a cracker, the finish is superb, and the bike is a winner.”

Press release: APMJ (Association of Professional Motorcycle Journalists)