Author Topic: 1190R Broken Frame (Read 16368 times)

hiltonph · « **Reply #120 on:** May 16, 2019, 03:45:06 pm »

Quote from: fudgypup on May 15, 2019, 06:36:47 pm

My buddy's 1190 frame cracked last week. Did a search and then found this YouTube vid of a similar incident.

https://youtu.be/fRh9PdvEbfk

Well now he can trash that bike and it will never break again... well at least not where he fixed it

Roadhawg · « **Reply #121 on:** May 16, 2019, 03:53:36 pm »

Quote from: fudgypup on May 15, 2019, 06:36:47 pm

My buddy's 1190 frame cracked last week. Did a search and then found this YouTube vid of a similar incident.

https://youtu.be/fRh9PdvEbfk

Some would say that bike seems excessively loaded....especially for that sort of terrain.

Bundu · « **Reply #122 on:** May 16, 2019, 04:01:28 pm »

Quote from: Roadhawg on May 16, 2019, 03:53:36 pm

Quote from: fudgypup on May 15, 2019, 06:36:47 pm
My buddy's 1190 frame cracked last week. Did a search and then found this YouTube vid of a similar incident.

https://youtu.be/fRh9PdvEbfk

Some would say that bike seems excessively loaded....especially for that sort of terrain.

was my 1st thought as well

Xchallenge · « **Reply #123 on:** May 16, 2019, 04:21:31 pm »

All you need is a Tent, Sleeping bag, T-shirts, Shorts, Toothbrush, Duct Tape, Cable-ties, Tools, and maybe a Toilet roll...
Geez, what was he carrying in there, his whole bedroom cupboard? Ha ha

katana · « **Reply #124 on:** May 16, 2019, 06:02:00 pm »

Quote from: Xchallenge on May 16, 2019, 04:21:31 pm

All you need is a ~~Tent, Sleeping bag, T-shirts, Shorts~~ black bag, Toothbrush, Duct Tape, ~~Cable-ties, Tools, and maybe a Toilet roll...~~
Geez, what was he carrying in there, his whole bedroom cupboard? Ha ha

Fixed, the good old days.

Xchallenge · « **Reply #125 on:** May 16, 2019, 06:09:53 pm »

Okay you win.
But can we agree on a toilet roll at least?

Ha ha

Quote from: katana on May 16, 2019, 06:02:00 pm

Quote from: Xchallenge on May 16, 2019, 04:21:31 pm
All you need is a ~~Tent, Sleeping bag, T-shirts, Shorts~~ black bag, Toothbrush, Duct Tape, ~~Cable-ties, Tools, and maybe a Toilet roll...~~
Geez, what was he carrying in there, his whole bedroom cupboard? Ha ha
Fixed, the good old days.

eberhard · « **Reply #126 on:** May 16, 2019, 07:04:02 pm »

I watched the video. That is piss easy terrain. True, a red route for the BMW riders clubs, but a green route for real bikes and bikers. Quite a few trip pictures in the ride reports were put up lately of real terrain. Have a look there and compare. Only in the video the bike was not designed for that terrain. I put the fault solely on the bike. Maybe a flawed model and not representative of the general production output.

Picture below was taken next to the Fish river canyon, both bikes already a bit off-loaded. From there it was the road to Walvis. Those here that have had the privilege of having ridden that road will know. But, those two bikes were still built with real metal and not composite shite or materials skimmed to the bone in order to save 5kg off the overall weight.

m0lt3n · « **Reply #127 on:** May 20, 2019, 11:31:51 am »

I always wonder if apples are compared to apples when I see pics like those above.

Quick example, put those big bulky indicators on my 1190 and it wont last a week. (just the previous trip already a CRF250L riding with me lost an indicator, same terrain same speed as myself)
Its simply not the same, my average speed on gravel over a corrugated crappy gravel road is the top speed of those old bonies. We put considerably more strain on the newer faster machines.I look at those panniers on the black/red bike, they wouldn't last and then the (plastic?) topbox on the white GS, loaded that frame will crack. And this from experience, I did bend the topbox bracket on my GS that the box hang at almost 45 degrees. And then I also had to reweld my frame on that GS as well. I don't see the frame of an 1150 being stronger.

And I know I am abusing my 1190 more than I did the GS.

Its simply not apples with apples, the bikes are faster and therefore you hit the road faster, bumps harder, the strain everywhere is more.

Granted, the headunit mounts suck, but something always has to go first

eberhard · « **Reply #128 on:** May 20, 2019, 03:22:27 pm »

Don’t know what your top speed is, but we klapped those BMs an easy 130km/h for large stretches on that road. Going into the dry river dips at top speed and flying out at the other side. Going airborne for the first metre or so. Thumping them down on the other side. At times the GS was ahead of me and did I so wish I could take pictures of that bike being airborne. Quite a sight. Then smashing them into sand banks where you took a wrong spoor and not a chance you can brake at that speed (at most speeds on those roads) so you close the petrol, gear down and head for the thickest, best sand bank and “crash” the bike into it. Switch the engine off. Take a smoke break and wiggle the bike out. And start it all over again.

I make my comparisons on what I see. I have ridden those roads multiple times over many years - same roads, my bike still the same, but no other bikes, anyway none of these super adventure bikes. Only the usual small Chinese local bikes. Watching this video I know now why I did not see any of these advanced, heavy duty super ADV bikes. The video says it all. Show me your pictures on those roads with these elite adventure bikes and I shall reconsider. I believe what I see. The strain that I have put on that bike over 20 years, no new bike will survive. Keep dreaming. The proof is always in the pudding.

m0lt3n · « **Reply #129 on:** May 20, 2019, 04:11:42 pm »

Quote from: eberhard on May 20, 2019, 03:22:27 pm

Don’t know what your top speed is, but we klapped those BMs an easy 130km/h for large stretches on that road. Going into the dry river dips at top speed and flying out at the other side. Going airborne for the first metre or so. Thumping them down on the other side. At times the GS was ahead of me and did I so wish I could take pictures of that bike being airborne. Quite a sight. Then smashing them into sand banks where you took a wrong spoor and not a chance you can brake at that speed (at most speeds on those roads) so you close the petrol, gear down and head for the thickest, best sand bank and “crash” the bike into it. Switch the engine off. Take a smoke break and wiggle the bike out. And start it all over again.

I make my comparisons on what I see. I have ridden those roads multiple times over many years - same roads, my bike still the same, but no other bikes, anyway none of these super adventure bikes. Only the usual small Chinese local bikes. Watching this video I know now why I did not see any of these advanced, heavy duty super ADV bikes. The video says it all. Show me your pictures on those roads with these elite adventure bikes and I shall reconsider. I believe what I see. The strain that I have put on that bike over 20 years, no new bike will survive. Keep dreaming. The proof is always in the pudding.

What video?
Are you asking me for pics proofing my adv bike can do rough terrain?

Composites? I don't know of any adv bike making use of composites? I have welded two GS frames (rear frame failed and front has also failed on adv) and my KTM frame, nothing fancy

eberhard · « **Reply #130 on:** May 20, 2019, 04:17:49 pm »

If you do not know what video, then why did you chip in?

m0lt3n · « **Reply #131 on:** May 20, 2019, 04:56:28 pm »

Apologies. I thought you were referring to a video with some actual difficult terrain.
No I agree, that terrain in that vid isn't that tough.

Why not rather show me one more instance where the 1190 frame broke at that spot? That random vid is the only case I know of and I follow a lot of 1190 pages.

But you missed my point, I am saying that the old bikes do not take the same kind of shots as current generation bikes as they were simply to slow. Maybe one hard impact but then it takes 5km to get back up to speed while the current Gen bikes are already taking shots again in that 5km.
130 on gravel isn't fast

But this all is a moot point, pointless discussion. The extend any bike will be exposed to abuse is determined by the rider's willingness to accept damage to his bike. How deep his pockets are.

Bundu · « **Reply #132 on:** May 20, 2019, 06:41:10 pm »

Quote from: eberhard on May 20, 2019, 03:22:27 pm

Don’t know what your top speed is, but we klapped those BMs an easy 130km/h for large stretches on that road. Going into the dry river dips at top speed and flying out at the other side. Going airborne for the first metre or so. Thumping them down on the other side. At times the GS was ahead of me and did I so wish I could take pictures of that bike being airborne. Quite a sight. Then smashing them into sand banks where you took a wrong spoor and not a chance you can brake at that speed (at most speeds on those roads) so you close the petrol, gear down and head for the thickest, best sand bank and “crash” the bike into it. Switch the engine off. Take a smoke break and wiggle the bike out. And start it all over again.

I make my comparisons on what I see. I have ridden those roads multiple times over many years - same roads, my bike still the same, but no other bikes, anyway none of these super adventure bikes. Only the usual small Chinese local bikes. Watching this video I know now why I did not see any of these advanced, heavy duty super ADV bikes. The video says it all. Show me your pictures on those roads with these elite adventure bikes and I shall reconsider. I believe what I see. The strain that I have put on that bike over 20 years, no new bike will survive. Keep dreaming. The proof is always in the pudding.

seems like they don't make bikes or men, like they used to................. but life carries on and people still have fun on 'super' adventure bikes

m0lt3n · « **Reply #133 on:** May 20, 2019, 09:36:45 pm »

Yeah... Just thinking what else I can put my bikes through... It's done old mill drift, road to hell, it's done 2500km tar in 32hrs and 1600km gravel in 23hrs. I have driven 400km to GS trophy try outs and back after the event, done a Losper technical Lesotho ride and I did not trailer there or back like the others. Kom se pad, prins Alfred baviaans and antoniesbergpas and back in heavy rain (and back) in one day.

Yes, the proof is in the pudding. They can do everything the old bikes could and TONS more.

eberhard · « **Reply #134 on:** May 20, 2019, 10:39:59 pm »

I suppose it comes down to priorities. For me the priority is to get to my destination safely without troubles along the way, meaning I place reliability at the top. E.g. electric windows and air conditioning in a motor vehicle do not impress me. I grew up without it and can still cope without it. I prefer to be in charge of what I am riding, Modern vehicles (bikes and cars) mostly take that ability away. A computer and electronics mostly run the vehicles. I know of a lot of people who prefer that. I have a handheld air pressure tester with which I test the pressure of my tires. That is the way they like it and that is the way I like it. In the process I sacrifice certain things, like better fuel efficiency, better braking ability (compared to some modern bikes), faster acceleration, weight, etc.

The dry weight of the R60/6 is given as 210kg, that of the R80/7 as 215kg and that of the KTM 1190 Adventure R as 217kg. The maximum power as 40hp at 6400rpm, 55hp at 7000rpm and 147.5hp at 9500 respectively. So comparing the R60/6 (pictured above) to the KTM1190 you have 3.5 times the power output for about the same weight. The KTM wins that competition hands free. That, amongst other things, is related to my remark above as to bikes being skimmed to the bone and composite materials being used. Double the engine capacity, 3.5 times the power output and only 7kg heavier.

eberhard · « **Reply #135 on:** May 20, 2019, 10:41:41 pm »

Quote from: m0lt3n on May 20, 2019, 04:56:28 pm

130 on gravel isn't fast

True, I thought often about what speeds can actually be achieved on some of those roads. Just keep in mind that I at all times used road tires, not knobblies. That does affect the bike’s handling on those roads.

eberhard · « **Reply #136 on:** May 20, 2019, 11:01:12 pm »

These pictures were taken in the Khomas hochland. Locals in Swakop looked at my bike and very informatively said I won’t make it to Windhoek. At one stage the pass I was on was too steep for the road tires of the bike. The rear wheel kept spinning on the same spot – lots of loose sand and pebbles and stones. So I took off a lot of baggage, drove the bike another 300m (it could then with stuff having been off-loaded) stopped and carried the stuff to there, loaded the bike again and drove on to Windhoek.

eberhard · « **Reply #137 on:** May 20, 2019, 11:02:27 pm »

Riding around in Lesotho.

Coming down some pass called Sani.

Kindly note the lack of ultra advanced, road specific tires.

eberhard · « **Reply #138 on:** May 20, 2019, 11:06:18 pm »

Try this with a KTM.

(oops, I forgot, there wasn’t a bike called KTM back then. sorry. KTM missed out on that fabulous era of unlimited raw materials)

m0lt3n · « **Reply #139 on:** May 21, 2019, 04:52:29 am »

I don't know anymore.
Putting down a photo of Sani as an example of rough terrain?
I have a Harley as well, and would be willing to do Sani with it.

Reliability? I have only once had to leave my bike due to mechanical failure, in Namibia once when my final drive went on GS. One failure in a lot of extreme adventure biking on these elite bikes and I wouldn't call it elite.

Right now I would get on my 1190 and take it to Kairo if I had the money and time. With my heated grips and tyre pressure sensors and all. There is no way the older bikes are more reliable and they were most definitely not abused more. In fact, I am actually now planning a 2500km in 36hr dustybutt ride, yap, gravel only.

Its fine to believe in the old things. To prefer using them. It's fine to have a history with them and it's fine not to replace them. But to shoot down modern vehicles is not fine. To believe that technology have not gone ahead or progressed in the last 30 years... Is just not true