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Author Topic: ..got the Kriek back...  (Read 813 times)

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Offline malJohann

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..got the Kriek back...
« on: May 15, 2008, 08:32:59 am »
I got the Kriek back from it's major service. My first bike is proving to be a real old-faithful. 40000 klicks of hard riding in 2½ years on that bike and it's still going strong.

This morning in my helmet I was jeering at the cars - "Fools! Muhahaha! Cagers! You suuuck!" - while happily slicing and dicing the traffic. Just kidding, but that's how I felt after 3 long weeks of bike starvation. Still can't wipe the smile off my face. A good friend of mine says if I ever get a big bike they're never getting me off of it. I suspect he may be right.

I also got Biets back after paying for only 3 hours worth of labour charges. I'll take pics of the head damage as soon as possible for advice from the mechanics on the forum.
Don't waste any more time.

Rides:
2005 Suzuki Raider 150
 

JohnST

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Re: ..got the Kriek back...
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2008, 08:40:29 am »
3 weeks is a long time! I have to travel from Centurion to Fourways, will never survive in a cage for 3 weeks!
 

Offline lecap

Re: ..got the Kriek back...
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2008, 10:36:26 am »
Dude, you seriously have to make a plan! You can't have two bikes at the workshop at the same time (unless you own three).  >:D
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." (Red Adair)
 

Offline malJohann

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Re: ..got the Kriek back...
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2008, 12:59:17 pm »
Right, so the clutch is slipping, maybe due to the new-found power of the serviced engine and the fact that it's got 40,000 klicks on.

But how do I diagnose whether it needs adjustment or replacement?
Don't waste any more time.

Rides:
2005 Suzuki Raider 150
 

bobnob

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Re: ..got the Kriek back...
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2008, 01:17:45 pm »
Right, so the clutch is slipping, maybe due to the new-found power of the serviced engine and the fact that it's got 40,000 klicks on.

But how do I diagnose whether it needs adjustment or replacement?

does it slip or drag?

check the play on the clutch cable first....
 

Offline malJohann

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Re: ..got the Kriek back...
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2008, 02:00:01 pm »
does it slip or drag?

check the play on the clutch cable first....

Explain.
Don't waste any more time.

Rides:
2005 Suzuki Raider 150
 

bobnob

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Re: ..got the Kriek back...
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2008, 02:03:40 pm »
does it slip or drag?

check the play on the clutch cable first....

Explain.

drag - when your at the robot in first gear with the clutch in you feel it slowly wanting to creep forward

slipping - going at a moderate speed when you gun it the revs go up but the speed stay the same only to pick up later
 

Offline malJohann

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Re: ..got the Kriek back...
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2008, 02:39:03 pm »
drag - when your at the robot in first gear with the clutch in you feel it slowly wanting to creep forward

slipping - going at a moderate speed when you gun it the revs go up but the speed stay the same only to pick up later

Both? I feel it wanting to go slightly forward at standstill when engaged with the clutch lever pulled back. When accelerating hard in any gear the revs rise faster than the current acceleration.
Don't waste any more time.

Rides:
2005 Suzuki Raider 150
 

Offline Nico

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Re: ..got the Kriek back...
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2008, 03:15:12 pm »
Veels geluk!

Does the bike have a wet or dry clutch? Perhaps they used a full or semi synth oil (or just the wrong type), and that is causing your grief. I gues I would start there perhaps. Remember - IANAM.

Perhaps ask Charley cooper for some pro-nutro
« Last Edit: May 16, 2008, 03:16:29 pm by Nico »
 

bobnob

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Re: ..got the Kriek back...
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2008, 03:35:53 pm »
drag - when your at the robot in first gear with the clutch in you feel it slowly wanting to creep forward

slipping - going at a moderate speed when you gun it the revs go up but the speed stay the same only to pick up later

Both? I feel it wanting to go slightly forward at standstill when engaged with the clutch lever pulled back. When accelerating hard in any gear the revs rise faster than the current acceleration.

give the clutch cable some more play

its probably just set to tight
 

Offline malJohann

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Re: ..got the Kriek back...
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2008, 03:42:03 pm »
give the clutch cable some more play

its probably just set to tight

Right. So, do I turn the little knobby on the handle in or out (I'm guessing in)? If neither, has this got to do with adjusting the cable at the lever on the gearbox casing?
Don't waste any more time.

Rides:
2005 Suzuki Raider 150
 

bobnob

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Re: ..got the Kriek back...
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2008, 03:53:47 pm »
give the clutch cable some more play

its probably just set to tight

Right. So, do I turn the little knobby on the handle in or out (I'm guessing in)? If neither, has this got to do with adjusting the cable at the lever on the gearbox casing?

lightly touch the lever it should have a couple of mm play before the cable picks up tension

turn the knobby in and you should then feel the cable going slack
 

Offline malJohann

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Re: ..got the Kriek back...
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2008, 09:18:22 am »
lightly touch the lever it should have a couple of mm play before the cable picks up tension

turn the knobby in and you should then feel the cable going slack

Okay. Knobby turned in, clutch lever has play, prominent drag at idle (so much that I have to keep braking so it doesn't move), clutch still slipping slightly at full throttle. I'm guessing it's time to replace the clutch, right?
Don't waste any more time.

Rides:
2005 Suzuki Raider 150
 

bobnob

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Re: ..got the Kriek back...
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2008, 10:08:13 am »
lightly touch the lever it should have a couple of mm play before the cable picks up tension

turn the knobby in and you should then feel the cable going slack

Okay. Knobby turned in, clutch lever has play, prominent drag at idle (so much that I have to keep braking so it doesn't move), clutch still slipping slightly at full throttle. I'm guessing it's time to replace the clutch, right?

maybe ask someone with more knowledge

i have only ever had clutch drag on my ZZR and there was air in the hydraulics so i had to bleed it and it was 100%

on the cable clutch i dont know try playing with the tension - you might find that it has a spot that will work 100% but half a turn in or out and it will not work as desired
 

Offline Nico

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Re: ..got the Kriek back...
« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2008, 12:30:33 pm »
Seriously, the wrong grade of oil will cause slippage, and the clutch has been slipping since the service. Stop being a cheapskate and replace the oil already.
 

Offline lecap

Re: ..got the Kriek back...
« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2008, 01:37:27 pm »
Seriously, the wrong grade of oil will cause slippage, and the clutch has been slipping since the service. Stop being a cheapskate and replace the oil already.

Agree: Food grade oil like extra virgin olive oil will most likely cause all kinds of engine problems including and beyond a slipping clutch.

Synthetic engine oil causes clutch slip = utter rubbish, a well nursed myth over more than thirty years since the first fully synthetic engine oils went out onto the shelf.

So called or marketed "High Mileage" oils contain seal & gasket conditioners which can possibly lead to failure of the clutch disc linings by swelling or disintegration. I would rather avoid them although I had to use Shell High Mileage 25W60 once to top up the Djebel 200 (The only multigrade available in Sutherland  :o ) No ill effects.


Clutch problems:

A slipping clutch is caused by:
The linings being worn beyond limit (very rare)
The linings being "glazed" or "burned" from overheating. The most common reason of clutch failure.
The spring(s) having set (rare)
The clutch cable being ill adjusted (too tight) or seized in its sleeve.
The roller actuator is out of adjustment (too tight)
Set springs or the cable being out of adjustment will very quickly cause the discs to overheat and glaze.
The clutch usually slips in top gear accelerating hard at  or towards of maximum torque RPM range.

A dragging clutch is caused by:
The clutch cable being ill adjusted (too loose).
The roller actuator is out of adjustment (too loose)
The hydraulic clutch mechanism is leaking or has a gas pocket in the system.
The steel discs are corroded.
The steel discs are warped.
The clutch hub and / or basket is worn.

Every wet clutch tends to drag a little bit. If you put the bike onto the centre stand or paddock stand with engine running and 1st engaged / clutch disengaged it should not require a lot of effort to stop the rear wheel from spinning though. Once stopped by hand or foot brake it should only resume its rotation slowly when you release it or ideally be kept stationary by the friction of the final drive. Make sure the engine oil is warm for this test.
A bike which wants to creep when in gear with clutch disengaged or a bike which reacts to throttle when freewheeling in gear with clutch disengaged is a clear indication for a dragging clutch as well as a gearbox which is hard to shift down (down only!)

A sticking clutch is caused by the viscosity of the oil temporarily "glueing" the friction discs and steel discs together preventing the clutch to disengage. It results in the famous "clack" when you engage 1st on a cold morning and ranges to the bike leaping forwards and the engine being stalled on some KLR's.
The sticking is normal and influenced by oil temperature and oil viscosity. Some bikes only show it after the bike has been standing for a longer time like overnight. I fouund a sticking clutch to be influenced by different makes of oil although they were the same viscosity. Some oils also seem to get less "sticky" after the first few hundred kilometres whilst others stay the same until the next oil change.

Clutch cable adjustment & check:
First adjust the cable to attain some play. The hand lever should move a few millimeter before it puts tension onto the cable. Make sure that you have play in every possible position of the steering
Then check that the cable is not seized in the sleeve. The play you adjusted into the cable should move freely from the clutch lever on the handlebars to the clutch actuator at the other end of the cable. Also turn the steering right and left while checking.
If you have arrived here, your clutch still slips and your actuator is cam operated either your clutch discs, your springs or both are stuffed and need replacement.

If your actuator is roller operated adjust the actuator correctly. If it still slips see above.

All the above applies to proper multiplate wet motorcycle clutches. Stay away with your racing Duc's, BMW Boxers and variomatic scooters!
« Last Edit: July 15, 2008, 01:40:29 pm by lecap »
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." (Red Adair)
 

Offline Lootch67

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Re: ..got the Kriek back...
« Reply #16 on: July 15, 2008, 02:07:10 pm »
The bikeshop once replaced my clutch because it was slipping and it turned out that the cable was frayed which caused the clutch to slip. At 40k km it's worth replaceing the cable anyway but I'd first replace that and then confirm whether the clutch is still slipping before forking out the money for a new clutch.
98 Black AT & the wheel from a 04 KLR 650.