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Author Topic: CLUTCH AND GEARBOX GREATLY IMPROVED (GS1200 LC 2013)  (Read 7874 times)

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Offline AlanDoyle

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Re: CLUTCH AND GEARBOX GREATLY IMPROVED (GS1200 LC 2013)
« Reply #20 on: October 01, 2015, 08:35:59 pm »
This is the older type clutch on the GS 1200. A single, double sided clutch plate clamped between a pressure plate and unlubricated. Number 5 is the clutch plate.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2015, 08:37:22 pm by AlanDoyle »
 

Offline AlanDoyle

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Re: CLUTCH AND GEARBOX GREATLY IMPROVED (GS1200 LC 2013)
« Reply #21 on: October 01, 2015, 08:49:27 pm »
The 1200 GS LC 2013< engine. You can see the clutch nicely in the front of this cutaway engine.
 

Offline TheBear

Re: CLUTCH AND GEARBOX GREATLY IMPROVED (GS1200 LC 2013)
« Reply #22 on: October 08, 2015, 01:29:23 pm »
These new GS bikes have a wet clutch, not like the older model which ran a dry clutch like a car. (Non lubricated) The wet clutch is lubricated by the engine oil and will last about 4 times that of a dry clutch. So I find it very strange that it is worn out after such a short mileage. Thats why I am hoping that BMW sort this out for you.

There are just way too many variables to make a statement like: "a wet clutch will last 4 times longer than a dry clutch".  True, if everything else remains equal, but it doesn't.  My previous GS with a dry clutch, when traded in at 108000km still had the original clutch.  Same with my wife's bike, except that was traded in at 107000km.  I cannot see any wet clutch lasting over 400 000km.

Also, if you surf the forums you will hear of many bikes with wet clutches that had to be replaced at 40 000, 50 000, or even less km.
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Offline Copernicus

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Re: CLUTCH AND GEARBOX GREATLY IMPROVED (GS1200 LC 2013)
« Reply #23 on: October 08, 2015, 02:19:37 pm »
These new GS bikes have a wet clutch, not like the older model which ran a dry clutch like a car. (Non lubricated) The wet clutch is lubricated by the engine oil and will last about 4 times that of a dry clutch. So I find it very strange that it is worn out after such a short mileage. Thats why I am hoping that BMW sort this out for you.

There are just way too many variables to make a statement like: "a wet clutch will last 4 times longer than a dry clutch".  True, if everything else remains equal, but it doesn't.  My previous GS with a dry clutch, when traded in at 108000km still had the original clutch.  Same with my wife's bike, except that was traded in at 107000km.  I cannot see any wet clutch lasting over 400 000km.

Also, if you surf the forums you will hear of many bikes with wet clutches that had to be replaced at 40 000, 50 000, or even less km.

I guess this is true.  But at least now if you need to replace the clutch it is a fairly straight forward job - no need to split the whole bike any longer.  What would you recon could the time difference be?  I bet it is considerable.
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Offline TheBear

Re: CLUTCH AND GEARBOX GREATLY IMPROVED (GS1200 LC 2013)
« Reply #24 on: October 08, 2015, 05:16:29 pm »
These new GS bikes have a wet clutch, not like the older model which ran a dry clutch like a car. (Non lubricated) The wet clutch is lubricated by the engine oil and will last about 4 times that of a dry clutch. So I find it very strange that it is worn out after such a short mileage. Thats why I am hoping that BMW sort this out for you.

There are just way too many variables to make a statement like: "a wet clutch will last 4 times longer than a dry clutch".  True, if everything else remains equal, but it doesn't.  My previous GS with a dry clutch, when traded in at 108000km still had the original clutch.  Same with my wife's bike, except that was traded in at 107000km.  I cannot see any wet clutch lasting over 400 000km.

Also, if you surf the forums you will hear of many bikes with wet clutches that had to be replaced at 40 000, 50 000, or even less km.

I guess this is true.  But at least now if you need to replace the clutch it is a fairly straight forward job - no need to split the whole bike any longer.  What would you recon could the time difference be?  I bet it is considerable.

Janee!   A wet clutch should save you plenty thousands in labour.

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Offline AlanDoyle

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Re: CLUTCH AND GEARBOX GREATLY IMPROVED (GS1200 LC 2013)
« Reply #25 on: October 08, 2015, 06:23:02 pm »
It would save you plenty of money on labour. These engines are a lot easier to work on than the older models in this regard. Maximum 1 hour and new plates would be in and ready to be used. When I replace clutch plates like these I also replace the driven plates as well because of distorting from heat. Some people like to slip the clutch excessively and this leads to a lot of heat generated on the clutch plates.

I have to say, that I still like the older GS 1200's. They are bullet proof and run for ages and can take serious abuse. These newer bikes make me nervous to own because they are relatively untested in the long term. But they do ride great!!!
 

Offline lecap

Re: CLUTCH AND GEARBOX GREATLY IMPROVED (GS1200 LC 2013)
« Reply #26 on: November 13, 2015, 10:30:29 am »
I find it rather interesting that a clamed bike mechanic recommends a non JASO MA2 engine oil for a bike with a wet clutch and gearbox lubricated by the engine oil.

If you have a bike with the wrong oil in the engine and the clutch sticks and you change the oil it will always improve. Almost entirely regardless of what oil you put in as long as it's just the correct viscosity.
The problem is your bike engine will make quick business out of a car engine oil (even your super fancy fully synthetic 10W60) and you will very quickly have reverted back to clunky gear changes and a sticky clutch.


For decades there was a lot of guesswork and try and error involved in selecting the correct engine oil for your bike. Motorcycle specific products were few and far between and no standards existed. This left you wondering if the expensive bike oil you bought was actually any different than the car oil which retailed for half the price on the next shelf. All the difference you had was a claim printed onto a container reading: Shear stable. ???


Then the Japanese gave us the JASO standards.
Using a non JASO MA2 engine oil in your bike since then seems medieval to me, sorry. Just like putting SAE40 into your airheads gear box just because you had it in your R25's box too.

Just my humble opinion.


In all your old air- and oilhead boxers you can obviously continue to use car engine oils happily. And please no SAE40 in the box. You can even run your R25's box on GL4 gearbox oil :D
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Offline AlanDoyle

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Re: CLUTCH AND GEARBOX GREATLY IMPROVED (GS1200 LC 2013)
« Reply #27 on: November 20, 2015, 12:48:18 pm »
Im over 7000 km down the line now and the gear changes and clutch operation is still the same as in the beginnig of the oil change, I think you may be underestimating what a good synthetic oil can do in a bike with clutch and gearbox combined. Jaso MA is correct for the engine setup, but in my humble opinion, as long as the oil does not have Molybedenum in it the oil will perform well in its correct viscosity and the clutch wont start to slip.

I am happy with my choice of oil.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2015, 12:51:00 pm by AlanDoyle »
 

Offline Famous Fanus

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Re: CLUTCH AND GEARBOX GREATLY IMPROVED (GS1200 LC 2013)
« Reply #28 on: December 25, 2015, 10:12:41 pm »
Anybody else who tried the Liqui Moly? Anymore feedback?

 I have a 2015 LC  with 2500 km on the clock. The gear changes are very cluncky, especially 1st to 2nd to 3rd, to the point where it's irritating the hell out of me! A friend of mine got a new 2016 spec lc adv last week from Centurion and what i can't understand is that the gear changes are silky smooth, although its the same engine anf gear box.

When i did my 1000km service i asked Zambesi BMW to investigate this and was told that it's a characteristic of the bike? Maybe a dog in Pta East who also own a LC can take my bike for a spin and tell me if i am over reacting and if the bikes gear changes are abnormally clunky?

Please let me know
 

Offline DaveT

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Re: CLUTCH AND GEARBOX GREATLY IMPROVED (GS1200 LC 2013)
« Reply #29 on: December 26, 2015, 11:02:35 am »
I had a 2013 GS LC and the box seemed as clunky as any of the other BMW's I had before. I recently bought a 2016 spec GSA LC and there is a huge difference in the box. This one is much smoother on the changes even when going from N to 1st.
 

Offline Famous Fanus

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Re: CLUTCH AND GEARBOX GREATLY IMPROVED (GS1200 LC 2013)
« Reply #30 on: December 26, 2015, 12:12:18 pm »
Hi DaveT

That's exactly my experience after driving my friends 2016 adv this week, but I want to know why is that? According to the dealers there was no changes done to the 2015 gs and the 2016 adv gear box?
 

Offline DaveT

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Re: CLUTCH AND GEARBOX GREATLY IMPROVED (GS1200 LC 2013)
« Reply #31 on: December 26, 2015, 03:18:11 pm »
The only explanation I can think of is the heavier flywheel in the Adventure, but I might be wrong. :peepwall:
 

Offline TheBear

Re: CLUTCH AND GEARBOX GREATLY IMPROVED (GS1200 LC 2013)
« Reply #32 on: December 26, 2015, 04:22:06 pm »
Gear shifts on my 2014 improved dramatically after some software upgrade,  but I would think the 2015 models roll off the floor with the software loaded.
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Offline Famous Fanus

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Re: CLUTCH AND GEARBOX GREATLY IMPROVED (GS1200 LC 2013)
« Reply #33 on: December 26, 2015, 08:19:25 pm »
The two has the same weight flywheel from 2014 onwards, thats what makes this so strange to me. I wonder of the two dealers use the same spec oil?
 

Offline AlanDoyle

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Re: CLUTCH AND GEARBOX GREATLY IMPROVED (GS1200 LC 2013)
« Reply #34 on: January 10, 2016, 02:48:48 pm »
In my opinion, I think it has a lot to do with the damper in the drive shaft that makes it smoother. But this damper system was fitted from 2014, so maybe there has been another modification we have not been told about? Or they have changed the oil spec.

Remember, these oil specs are set for Europe (colder climate). South Africa is a much hotter place to live, so we may need the thicker oil as I said in the beginning of this post. My bike is still changing much better with that oil. Nearly due for a service now. My bike is a 2013 and out of warranty, so I will use the same oil again on it.

Remember this? Maybe a lot of you have forgotten.
 

Offline ChrisL - DUSTRIDERS

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Re: CLUTCH AND GEARBOX GREATLY IMPROVED (GS1200 LC 2013)
« Reply #35 on: January 10, 2016, 05:57:34 pm »
AlanD the chart you have posted is that for air or watercooled bikes?
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Offline TheBear

Re: CLUTCH AND GEARBOX GREATLY IMPROVED (GS1200 LC 2013)
« Reply #36 on: January 11, 2016, 01:09:39 pm »
In my opinion, I think it has a lot to do with the damper in the drive shaft that makes it smoother. But this damper system was fitted from 2014, so maybe there has been another modification we have not been told about? Or they have changed the oil spec.

Remember, these oil specs are set for Europe (colder climate). South Africa is a much hotter place to live, so we may need the thicker oil as I said in the beginning of this post. My bike is still changing much better with that oil. Nearly due for a service now. My bike is a 2013 and out of warranty, so I will use the same oil again on it.

Remember this? Maybe a lot of you have forgotten.

I remember it well and still see it in owner's manuals of certain vehicles.  

BMW did not change oil specs.  
They did do a software upgrade if you let them service your bike that makes gear shifting much smoother.

AlanD the chart you have posted is that for air or watercooled bikes?

Don't think it is either.  Just a chart as an example.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2016, 01:11:58 pm by TheBear »
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Offline AlanDoyle

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Re: CLUTCH AND GEARBOX GREATLY IMPROVED (GS1200 LC 2013)
« Reply #37 on: January 11, 2016, 05:26:49 pm »
I have had the sofware upgrade done and it did not change the gear changes. What I did notice is that when you are changing down, then the computer blips the throttle for you if you did not blip it. It never did that before the software upgrade.

« Last Edit: January 11, 2016, 05:27:48 pm by AlanDoyle »
 

Offline TheBear

Re: CLUTCH AND GEARBOX GREATLY IMPROVED (GS1200 LC 2013)
« Reply #38 on: January 12, 2016, 12:06:35 pm »
I have had the sofware upgrade done and it did not change the gear changes. What I did notice is that when you are changing down, then the computer blips the throttle for you if you did not blip it. It never did that before the software upgrade.



Jip.  SW upgrade does blip the throttle, if required, on downshifts.  The SW upgrade made a huge difference on my 2014 bike as its gearbox was truly k@k.  My wife's 2014 wasn't nearly as bad.  Both are 2014.  Both serviced by same dealer, i.e. same oil.  So, I have no idea why some have such k@k boxes and some don't. 
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Offline AlanDoyle

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Re: CLUTCH AND GEARBOX GREATLY IMPROVED (GS1200 LC 2013)
« Reply #39 on: January 12, 2016, 07:12:47 pm »
AlanD the chart you have posted is that for air or watercooled bikes?

Hi Chris, that was just an example of how temperature effects oil viscosity's. The point I was making is that it is so hot here in SA so it makes sense to use a slightly thicker oil here. These specs on these german bikes are for European countries, much colder than SA.