Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register

Author Topic: MotoGP 2016.  (Read 77834 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Serfie

Re: MotoGP 2016.
« Reply #720 on: November 30, 2016, 08:48:52 am »
Well...whatever the case may be...guess well never know...there's just too many variables.  :-\  I am just ABSOLUTELY FASCINATED when I watch motorbike races, be it Moto3 SBK or MotoGP...even our SA races...those guys are actually doing something with that machine... I will not be able to do in a million years...they way they handle them at such speeds really boggles the mind...truly a spectacle and riveting to watch...so much more pleasurable than Springbok rugby!!!  :patch:
“So much of life can never be explained…it can only be witnessed and experienced…but above all...life just goes on…no matter what!!”

Previous bikes - 1980 XL125S: 1986 IT200: 1989 XT250:  1999 Africa Twin 750XLV: 2011 XR250 Tornado: 1999 XJR900 Diversion:  1996 Varadero XL1000V: 2007 Transalp 650 : 2015 Kawasaki Versys KLZ 1000
Currently - 2008 KLR650 / 2008 DR650 / 2015 SYM CROX 125 /  2014 BMW F700GS
 

Offline cocky

  • Ryyyyyy net ASFB.
  • Race Dog
  • ***
  • Bike: KTM 990 Adventure
    Location: Western Cape
  • Posts: 4,627
  • Thanked: 278 times
  • DILLIGAF
Re: MotoGP 2016.
« Reply #721 on: November 30, 2016, 09:16:34 am »
Maybe the WSBK riders are better than the MotoGP riders  :peepwall:

 >:D
SBK has always been the retirement formula for GP riders who were over the hill, yet they performed remarkably well in SBK. Checa, Biaggi, Hayden, etc.This makes those times all the more astonishing, because the level of SBK riders is nowhere near MotoGP standards. Put Marques on the ZX10 and he will probably win every SBK race by half a minute.

The majority of SBK world champions who went on to MotoGP at the peak of their careers were midfielders at best.
Really, like whom, Ben Spies and Colin Edwards and Troy Ballis they made it in MotoGP

Well, those 3 were probably the best to go across at the top of their game, and they managed a 4th, 5th, and 6th in the championship as their best achievements in MotoGP.

In contrast Checa, Biaggi and Guintoli all won SBK championships in their retirement.

I rest my case.
Best you improve your google research, Guintoli was never a MotoGP champion, or rider, came from BSB, Checca and Biaggi both did not have contracts re-newed and were not going down to Moto2.
Just because your past did not turn out like you wanted it to does not mean your marriage will not be better than you ever imagined it could be.
Die Kaapse Hoender!
 

Offline TheBear

  • Bachelor Dog
  • *****
  • Bike: BMW R1150GS Adventure
    Location: Western Cape
  • Posts: 11,440
  • Thanked: 926 times
  • Die Ruiter sal KilRoy regruk
Re: MotoGP 2016.
« Reply #722 on: November 30, 2016, 01:17:44 pm »
Well...whatever the case may be...guess well never know...there's just too many variables.  :-\  I am just ABSOLUTELY FASCINATED when I watch motorbike races, be it Moto3 SBK or MotoGP...even our SA races...those guys are actually doing something with that machine... I will not be able to do in a million years...they way they handle them at such speeds really boggles the mind...truly a spectacle and riveting to watch...so much more pleasurable than Springbok rugby!!!  :patch:

+1!

It is a pretty moot debate anyway, since the riders move between the two championships, but seldomly from a comparable team in terms of equipment.   
#BB33 #BRADICAL!
#DB40 #DIVEBOMB!
#SO4 #FULLGAS!
 

Offline Gryshond

  • Race Dog
  • ***
  • Bike: BMW R1200GS Adventure
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 1,125
  • Thanked: 1 times
Re: MotoGP 2016.
« Reply #723 on: November 30, 2016, 02:08:26 pm »
Some views on MGP v SBK v SS (superstock) v Standard

Difference between MGP factory and SBK about 2 seconds (see Donovan's article).
Difference between MGP factory and SS about 10 seconds. Some tracks the SS bikes lapped faster than the MGP CRT bikes.
Difference between MGP factory and Standard 12 seconds.

That means a factory MGP team is spending R20 mil to gain 10 seconds and then we are not taking into account the riders. Raffaele De Rosa can probably not be compared to Marc Marquez. I would love to see what lap time MM or VR can do on a Superstock bike.

Of course we should not forget all the work Dorna has done to slow the bikes down in MGP (tyres and electronics). This means that MM or VR can probably take a stock S1000RR HP4 with Pirelli Supercorsa SCO's off the show room floor, and put it on the grid in MGP in amongs the CRT's. They will definitely appreciate the consistency of the tyres compared to the crap they have to use now.

What would be great is if some publication could get one rider to take the Stock HP4, Superstock HP4, ZX10 SBK and Honda MGP bikes round the same track on the same day. The best in each class to see how they compare. Preferably a MGP rider so there is no defense that the rider just can't get the best out of the prototype.
 

Offline TheBear

  • Bachelor Dog
  • *****
  • Bike: BMW R1150GS Adventure
    Location: Western Cape
  • Posts: 11,440
  • Thanked: 926 times
  • Die Ruiter sal KilRoy regruk
Re: MotoGP 2016.
« Reply #724 on: November 30, 2016, 02:30:31 pm »
Just a note on the CRT bikes you mention.

They were MotoGP spec frames and paraphernalia with a 1000cc superbike derived engine.  They do not exist anymore.  The class was canned at the end of the 2014 season.
#BB33 #BRADICAL!
#DB40 #DIVEBOMB!
#SO4 #FULLGAS!
 

Offline Gryshond

  • Race Dog
  • ***
  • Bike: BMW R1200GS Adventure
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 1,125
  • Thanked: 1 times
Re: MotoGP 2016.
« Reply #725 on: November 30, 2016, 02:46:18 pm »
Just a note on the CRT bikes you mention.

They were MotoGP spec frames and paraphernalia with a 1000cc superbike derived engine.  They do not exist anymore.  The class was canned at the end of the 2014 season.

Well spotted so let's call them non factory..
 

Offline TheBear

  • Bachelor Dog
  • *****
  • Bike: BMW R1150GS Adventure
    Location: Western Cape
  • Posts: 11,440
  • Thanked: 926 times
  • Die Ruiter sal KilRoy regruk
Re: MotoGP 2016.
« Reply #726 on: November 30, 2016, 02:57:19 pm »
Just a note on the CRT bikes you mention.

They were MotoGP spec frames and paraphernalia with a 1000cc superbike derived engine.  They do not exist anymore.  The class was canned at the end of the 2014 season.

Well spotted so let's call them non factory..

I would suggest we call them by the same names that MGP currently use.  You get Factory Class and Open Class.  Open Class being non-factory, as aptly described by you.  The problem with the Open Class is that they are often pretty old bikes.  Some of the Ducatis we saw on the track this year were GP14 bikes!  In fact, as it stands, at least one rider will ride a GP14 next year. 

On the other side of the coin, we have the WSBK ZX10R Kawasakis which are only that in name.  They are as much a prototype as any MGP bike.  They only share a badge with the bike we can buy.

#BB33 #BRADICAL!
#DB40 #DIVEBOMB!
#SO4 #FULLGAS!
 

Offline Rough Rider

  • Grey hound
  • ****
  • Bike: Husqvarna (all models)
    Location: Western Cape
  • Posts: 5,048
  • Thanked: 56 times
  • Hang time
Re: MotoGP 2016.
« Reply #727 on: November 30, 2016, 03:34:59 pm »
Some views on MGP v SBK v SS (superstock) v Standard

Difference between MGP factory and SBK about 2 seconds (see Donovan's article).
Difference between MGP factory and SS about 10 seconds. Some tracks the SS bikes lapped faster than the MGP CRT bikes.
Difference between MGP factory and Standard 12 seconds.

That means a factory MGP team is spending R20 mil to gain 10 seconds and then we are not taking into account the riders. Raffaele De Rosa can probably not be compared to Marc Marquez. I would love to see what lap time MM or VR can do on a Superstock bike.

Of course we should not forget all the work Dorna has done to slow the bikes down in MGP (tyres and electronics). This means that MM or VR can probably take a stock S1000RR HP4 with Pirelli Supercorsa SCO's off the show room floor, and put it on the grid in MGP in amongs the CRT's. They will definitely appreciate the consistency of the tyres compared to the crap they have to use now.

What would be great is if some publication could get one rider to take the Stock HP4, Superstock HP4, ZX10 SBK and Honda MGP bikes round the same track on the same day. The best in each class to see how they compare. Preferably a MGP rider so there is no defense that the rider just can't get the best out of the prototype.

I remember when Max Biaggi first came to WSBK he complained bitterly about the steel brake discs; saying that he was finding it very hard to adapt and could not get the things to stop; so I would imagine if the MGP riders tested WSBKs back to back with MGP they would initially be slower than the WSBK riders.
Current rides: 2015 WR250F / 2016 690R / 2017 701SM
 

Offline Kawasefi

  • Race Dog
  • ***
  • Bike: Kawasaki Versys
    Location: Australia
  • Posts: 1,559
Re: MotoGP 2016.
« Reply #728 on: November 30, 2016, 06:50:26 pm »

Best you improve your google research, Guintoli was never a MotoGP champion, or rider, came from BSB, Checca and Biaggi both did not have contracts re-newed and were not going down to Moto2.

Thanks for the google tip, you should try it sometime: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sylvain_Guintoli

So you agree that old MotoGP riders (I never said champions) who couldn't even get a MotoGP ride anymore went on to become WSBK champions? Yet you fail to see the point I'm trying to make?
 

Offline Gryshond

  • Race Dog
  • ***
  • Bike: BMW R1200GS Adventure
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 1,125
  • Thanked: 1 times
Re: MotoGP 2016.
« Reply #729 on: December 01, 2016, 08:35:16 am »

I would suggest we call them by the same names that MGP currently use.  You get Factory Class and Open Class. 


I would suggest if you want to keep correcting me you get your facts straight.

The Grand Prix Commission, composed of Messrs. Carmelo Ezpeleta (Dorna, Chairman), Ignacio Verneda (FIM CEO), Herve Poncharal (IRTA) and Takanao Tsubouchi (MSMA) in the presence of Javier Alonso (Dorna) and Mike Trimby (IRTA, Secretary of the meeting), in a meeting held on 10th of December 2015 in Madrid, made the following decisions:

Previous regulations made frequent reference to “Open” and “Factory” classes and machine types. All such references will now be removed.
 

Offline Rough Rider

  • Grey hound
  • ****
  • Bike: Husqvarna (all models)
    Location: Western Cape
  • Posts: 5,048
  • Thanked: 56 times
  • Hang time
Re: MotoGP 2016.
« Reply #730 on: December 01, 2016, 10:03:44 am »
The only real change I want to see is in the Moto2 class; I hate the fact that all the manufactures are forced to use Honda engines. I think the rules should be the same as MGP but with smaller engines. 
Current rides: 2015 WR250F / 2016 690R / 2017 701SM
 

Offline RobD

Re: MotoGP 2016.
« Reply #731 on: December 01, 2016, 10:09:33 am »
The only real change I want to see is in the Moto2 class; I hate the fact that all the manufactures are forced to use Honda engines. I think the rules should be the same as MGP but with smaller engines.

The teams would not be able to afford to race then.... MotoGP is the big money spinnner.
 

Offline cocky

  • Ryyyyyy net ASFB.
  • Race Dog
  • ***
  • Bike: KTM 990 Adventure
    Location: Western Cape
  • Posts: 4,627
  • Thanked: 278 times
  • DILLIGAF
Re: MotoGP 2016.
« Reply #732 on: December 01, 2016, 10:20:07 am »

I would suggest we call them by the same names that MGP currently use.  You get Factory Class and Open Class. 


I would suggest if you want to keep correcting me you get your facts straight.

The Grand Prix Commission, composed of Messrs. Carmelo Ezpeleta (Dorna, Chairman), Ignacio Verneda (FIM CEO), Herve Poncharal (IRTA) and Takanao Tsubouchi (MSMA) in the presence of Javier Alonso (Dorna) and Mike Trimby (IRTA, Secretary of the meeting), in a meeting held on 10th of December 2015 in Madrid, made the following decisions:

Previous regulations made frequent reference to “Open” and “Factory” classes and machine types. All such references will now be removed.
Ahmen JC and thank you.
Just because your past did not turn out like you wanted it to does not mean your marriage will not be better than you ever imagined it could be.
Die Kaapse Hoender!
 

Offline TheBear

  • Bachelor Dog
  • *****
  • Bike: BMW R1150GS Adventure
    Location: Western Cape
  • Posts: 11,440
  • Thanked: 926 times
  • Die Ruiter sal KilRoy regruk
Re: MotoGP 2016.
« Reply #733 on: December 01, 2016, 08:31:18 pm »

I would suggest we call them by the same names that MGP currently use.  You get Factory Class and Open Class. 


I would suggest if you want to keep correcting me you get your facts straight.



Indeed.  My bad.  My apologies.



« Last Edit: December 01, 2016, 08:33:07 pm by TheBear »
#BB33 #BRADICAL!
#DB40 #DIVEBOMB!
#SO4 #FULLGAS!
 

Offline cocky

  • Ryyyyyy net ASFB.
  • Race Dog
  • ***
  • Bike: KTM 990 Adventure
    Location: Western Cape
  • Posts: 4,627
  • Thanked: 278 times
  • DILLIGAF
Re: MotoGP 2016.
« Reply #734 on: January 30, 2017, 12:09:58 pm »
First testing has started and already rumours that CS27 will be racing for Ducati in more than one or two races this year.
Just because your past did not turn out like you wanted it to does not mean your marriage will not be better than you ever imagined it could be.
Die Kaapse Hoender!
 

Offline Snafu

  • Grey hound
  • ****
  • Bike: Honda XR125L
    Location: Western Cape
  • Posts: 9,005
  • Thanked: 92 times
  • Brackenfell Bricket
Re: MotoGP 2016.
« Reply #735 on: January 30, 2017, 12:20:48 pm »
Rimtape: Sounds like something in the first-aid kit of a gay-porn movie set. - Jaco