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Re: APJ PR7
« Reply #20 on: November 19, 2015, 07:18:00 am »
Ok so it is a 600 single made to look like a rally bike. Why would you buy this over a 690?? It is not really a dual sport bike is it?

+1   :thumleft:
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Re: APJ PR7
« Reply #21 on: November 19, 2015, 07:25:26 am »
Ok so it is a 600 single made to look like a rally bike. Why would you buy this over a 690?? It is not really a dual sport bike is it?

+1   :thumleft:

I see it differently - I see the fuel tank being big enough & under the seat, the frames that apparently are available for luggage, a big wide seat, suspension travel & power enough for me, the gearbox that has been improved for more technical riding (advrider) and if I comes in around the 690 rallye price, I would be interested. The tower is the bit that I don't need, myself.
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Offline Xpat

Re: APJ PR7
« Reply #22 on: November 19, 2015, 08:14:19 am »
Ok so it is a 600 single made to look like a rally bike. Why would you buy this over a 690?? It is not really a dual sport bike is it?

Why this and not 690? I have 690 with the rally kit, and assuming this will cost about as much as 690 here is why I would buy this over 690: wind protection, comfortable seat, bigger tank (admittedly not once you put rally kit on 690 has much more), better suspension from what I can see, price - any of those 690 rally kits cost around R60k and quite frankly they are an add-on that original 690 design didn't factor in so they are always awkward (some too wide, parts not fitting 100%, grinding on the frame, etc - they fine for racing, but not perfect for long term use), wide ration gearbox of 630 (I have 630 as well and the gearbox is much better than 690 narrow range), etc. More power and bigger engine of 690 are handy, but in trickier stuff in my experience the thumper like 630 with stronger bottom rules over 690.

And yes, it is not strictly dual sport like standard 690 is (I know words lost meaning in this world ruled by marketing, but dual sport is term from america for plated dirt bike, GS or big KTMs and all their clones are not dual sport in any sense of the word), but I'm after long distance properly dirt capable bike - rally bike if you will, and there is nothing on the market that comes close to this. Tenere is way too heavy with crappy suspension (and is discontinued in SA, as is R), 630 is again real dual sport and not long distance tool.

So what else is on the market really dirt focused (lightweight, proper suspension), while comfortable for long distance off road exploration - not just farm roads?
« Last Edit: November 19, 2015, 08:42:35 am by Xpat »
 

Offline Rossdog

Re: APJ PR7
« Reply #23 on: November 19, 2015, 03:23:48 pm »
Ok so it is a 600 single made to look like a rally bike. Why would you buy this over a 690?? It is not really a dual sport bike is it?

Why this and not 690? I have 690 with the rally kit, and assuming this will cost about as much as 690 here is why I would buy this over 690: wind protection, comfortable seat, bigger tank (admittedly not once you put rally kit on 690 has much more), better suspension from what I can see, price - any of those 690 rally kits cost around R60k and quite frankly they are an add-on that original 690 design didn't factor in so they are always awkward (some too wide, parts not fitting 100%, grinding on the frame, etc - they fine for racing, but not perfect for long term use), wide ration gearbox of 630 (I have 630 as well and the gearbox is much better than 690 narrow range), etc. More power and bigger engine of 690 are handy, but in trickier stuff in my experience the thumper like 630 with stronger bottom rules over 690.

And yes, it is not strictly dual sport like standard 690 is (I know words lost meaning in this world ruled by marketing, but dual sport is term from america for plated dirt bike, GS or big KTMs and all their clones are not dual sport in any sense of the word), but I'm after long distance properly dirt capable bike - rally bike if you will, and there is nothing on the market that comes close to this. Tenere is way too heavy with crappy suspension (and is discontinued in SA, as is R), 630 is again real dual sport and not long distance tool.

So what else is on the market really dirt focused (lightweight, proper suspension), while comfortable for long distance off road exploration - not just farm roads?


My thoughts exactly. There are lots of blokes like me who want something light and flickable. I don't own a GS or a 1290 simply because I prefer the hardcore back roads. Places like the Transkei, Lesotho, deep Kalahari...









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Re: APJ PR7
« Reply #24 on: November 19, 2015, 07:06:27 pm »
When is it due out?
Rally nut. What could possibly go wrong?
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Re: APJ PR7
« Reply #25 on: November 19, 2015, 08:03:49 pm »
Could'nt have said it better xPat. The bike has all the right goodies as standard and I certainly would like to get my leg over one. Reports on their other models are good too.

Would like to see it striped down and see where the air filter sits.

 
 

Offline sidetrack

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Re: APJ PR7
« Reply #26 on: November 19, 2015, 10:00:48 pm »
What is the low down ? It's pictures have been around for almost 2 years, any release date confirmed ? Think it will be a great bike. 630 will be a perfect base, too bad Marzocchi is no more (?) as I really liked the ones on my 06 610. If they could put this bike on the floor for 89k I reckon it would fly !
« Last Edit: November 19, 2015, 10:05:53 pm by sidetrack »
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Offline whitedelight

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Re: APJ PR7
« Reply #27 on: November 20, 2015, 07:41:39 am »
What is the low down ? It's pictures have been around for almost 2 years, any release date confirmed ? Think it will be a great bike. 630 will be a perfect base, too bad Marzocchi is no more (?) as I really liked the ones on my 06 610. If they could put this bike on the floor for 89k I reckon it would fly !

I think your price is a tad optimistic.i reckon you gonna fork out another R40k at least for it.
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Offline Xpat

Re: APJ PR7
« Reply #28 on: November 20, 2015, 07:54:01 am »
What is the low down ? It's pictures have been around for almost 2 years, any release date confirmed ? Think it will be a great bike. 630 will be a perfect base, too bad Marzocchi is no more (?) as I really liked the ones on my 06 610. If they could put this bike on the floor for 89k I reckon it would fly !

I think your price is a tad optimistic.i reckon you gonna fork out another R40k at least for it.

I agree, 690 nowadays is 120k new unfortunately.

Offline wolf skaap

Re: APJ PR7
« Reply #29 on: November 20, 2015, 09:40:21 am »
Ok so it is a 600 single made to look like a rally bike. Why would you buy this over a 690?? It is not really a dual sport bike is it?

Why this and not 690? I have 690 with the rally kit, and assuming this will cost about as much as 690 here is why I would buy this over 690: wind protection, comfortable seat, bigger tank (admittedly not once you put rally kit on 690 has much more), better suspension from what I can see, price - any of those 690 rally kits cost around R60k and quite frankly they are an add-on that original 690 design didn't factor in so they are always awkward (some too wide, parts not fitting 100%, grinding on the frame, etc - they fine for racing, but not perfect for long term use), wide ration gearbox of 630 (I have 630 as well and the gearbox is much better than 690 narrow range), etc. More power and bigger engine of 690 are handy, but in trickier stuff in my experience the thumper like 630 with stronger bottom rules over 690.

And yes, it is not strictly dual sport like standard 690 is (I know words lost meaning in this world ruled by marketing, but dual sport is term from america for plated dirt bike, GS or big KTMs and all their clones are not dual sport in any sense of the word), but I'm after long distance properly dirt capable bike - rally bike if you will, and there is nothing on the market that comes close to this. Tenere is way too heavy with crappy suspension (and is discontinued in SA, as is R), 630 is again real dual sport and not long distance tool.

So what else is on the market really dirt focused (lightweight, proper suspension), while comfortable for long distance off road exploration - not just farm roads?

Agreed that the Tenere is discontinued but you still see many for sale.

As far as the Tenere's stock suspension goes, I'm now convinced that most people that discredit it, are (how should I put this), not the worlds best riders. I see myself as barely better than average, and I can not ride the Tenere to its full potential. Upgrading the Tenere's suspension is thus a waste on me, seeing as there are a lot more to offer by its stock setup, than what I'm actually using.

Instead of searching for "the ultimate bike", which is supposed to turn us into "the ultimate riders", I would rather focus on honing my own skills first.

For my kind of rides, which tend to be much more technical than the average DS ride, the 690 Rally is a huge overkill.

*edit* Xpat, you seem to carry way too many tools and stuff like electrical pumps etc. If you are looking to save weight and improve suspension, I would suggest to focus on a more efficient baggage strategy  :thumleft:
« Last Edit: November 20, 2015, 09:47:24 am by wolf skaap »
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Offline sidetrack

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Re: APJ PR7
« Reply #30 on: November 20, 2015, 12:51:20 pm »
What is the low down ? It's pictures have been around for almost 2 years, any release date confirmed ? Think it will be a great bike. 630 will be a perfect base, too bad Marzocchi is no more (?) as I really liked the ones on my 06 610. If they could put this bike on the floor for 89k I reckon it would fly !

I think your price is a tad optimistic.i reckon you gonna fork out another R40k at least for it.
If it costs more than a 690 / 701 they can forget selling them, I mean is the the whole idea not to be a cheaper alternative ? No one is going to pay KTM money for a AJP. The KTM 690 sells for 118k right now.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2015, 12:52:05 pm by sidetrack »
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Offline Xpat

Re: APJ PR7
« Reply #31 on: November 20, 2015, 02:29:11 pm »

Agreed that the Tenere is discontinued but you still see many for sale.

As far as the Tenere's stock suspension goes, I'm now convinced that most people that discredit it, are (how should I put this), not the worlds best riders. I see myself as barely better than average, and I can not ride the Tenere to its full potential. Upgrading the Tenere's suspension is thus a waste on me, seeing as there are a lot more to offer by its stock setup, than what I'm actually using.

Instead of searching for "the ultimate bike", which is supposed to turn us into "the ultimate riders", I would rather focus on honing my own skills first.

For my kind of rides, which tend to be much more technical than the average DS ride, the 690 Rally is a huge overkill.

*edit* Xpat, you seem to carry way too many tools and stuff like electrical pumps etc. If you are looking to save weight and improve suspension, I would suggest to focus on a more efficient baggage strategy  :thumleft:

Fair enough, I'm first to admit that I'm at best an average rider and definitely nowhere close to you. And yes, fully with you on the ride more to get better at it.

But I'm not with you on the suspension front - at least up to a point. Yes, WP forks are an overkill for Tenere (and as you know my kick ass forks decided on Sunday that I'm better of riding them without oil  ;), Hyperpro springs would do just fine for me, but the standard was bottoming out at slightest provocation - and sure, I may have been just riding as an idiot, but hey - myself is the one thing I cannot change easily in this life.

In my experience good suspension is great at compensating for the lack of riders skills - up to a point of course. When I got my KTM300, which by chance came perfectly set-up for me after KLX450, it was a revelation - I could ride same tracks in DeWildt 50% faster and enjoyment of the ride went through the roof. Now I didn't become better rider - the better suspension and bike just make my riding much more enjoyable. Now I have no doubt that Chris Birch on Tenere with standard suspension would run circles around me, but I'm looking for the bike for me with all my limitations, not for Chris. And good suspension has saved my ass on few occasions when I stupidly exceeded those limitations.

And yes, I need to optimize the shit I carry - I tend to ride solo and hence tend to carry lots of stuff just in case.

But regardless whether Tenere is good out of stock or not, it is discontinued now, and so is 660R, XR650, DR650, 610/630. And as far as I can see there are no bikes covering long distance dirt riding market right now (with exception of 690/701, but those require significant upgrades at least for longer trips). So I applaud APJ for bringing this bike to the market, as with exception of 690/701 (which I suspect will be much more expensive once modified for long distance travel) there are no other new bikes in this category on offer as far as I can see. I'm not going to buy one, at least straight away, as I just bought 690 for that, but I'm glad that this bike exists.




Offline wolf skaap

Re:
« Reply #32 on: November 20, 2015, 03:17:41 pm »
Very little options if you are looking for something new. I wouldn't be surprised if this APJ sells for 690 money.

Surely you and Sidetrack did not bottom your suspension during our recent ride?!
I was going at least 30% faster and did not bottom mine once!

I'm getting the idea that we are on total different bikes.
My ignorance to these supposed flaws are such bliss!

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Re: APJ PR7
« Reply #33 on: November 20, 2015, 05:43:38 pm »
I met with SWM this morning, who will launch their  'Super-Dual' in May 2016.
(they have an extensive range of 8 or 9 models of Enduro bikes, etc)
Pre-production model on the stand (pics to follow)....
They are tweaking some final design elements

SAME MOTOR as the APJ: ex-Husky 600cc unit, non-abs for 1st 12 months, around 159kg dry (?) weight, weight is carried LOWER than say a 660Z.

Servicing and repair can be done by Husky International, to be set up on a country-per-county basis...

Pricing: Euro 7000.00, which equates ROUGHLY to pre-vat R105K. With vat around R119K.
Fuel injected, upside-down shocks, quality components, etc.
19L fuel tank, expecting around 22 or 23km/l, roughly 420km+ range, pannier racks and side-cases already designed, as an optional extra.

They are CONSIDERING offering the bike with a 21" front wheel, as opposed to the existing 19", letting the bike compete more equally with APJ, but it does have a 17" rear, and not an 18".
Cheers
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« Last Edit: November 20, 2015, 06:05:07 pm by zebra - Flying Brick »
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Offline Xpat

Re: APJ PR7
« Reply #34 on: November 20, 2015, 06:05:50 pm »
Yes here it is - the bling on the bike is just wrong IMO, but still an option:





Offline whitedelight

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Re: APJ PR7
« Reply #35 on: November 20, 2015, 06:15:08 pm »
Xpat I hear what you say,but they will sell more looking like that than the first images in the thread.
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Offline Delport

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Re: APJ PR7
« Reply #36 on: November 20, 2015, 06:16:14 pm »
Yes here it is - the bling on the bike is just wrong IMO, but still an option:






Ok die pics verander my opinie majorly. En ja op die konsep stem ek saam as jy 'n 600-700 Adventure tourer kan kry soos die koop ek more een Vorige foto was te Amageza/Dakar. Die is meer die tipe ding wat ons kort. Jy kan hom maklik convert in spesalis competitive bike, maar net so gebruik om te toer.... Dis tipes Xchallenge of 690, nadat jy R50k spandeeer het..... so as die prys reg is dink ek gaan die ding verkoop.
 

Offline Xpat

Re: APJ PR7
« Reply #37 on: November 20, 2015, 06:18:29 pm »
Xpat I hear what you say,but they will sell more looking like that than the first images in the thread.

Most probably so, I still hope AJP will sell enough to stay around for a while.

Offline whitedelight

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Re: APJ PR7
« Reply #38 on: November 20, 2015, 06:23:18 pm »
Xpat I hear what you say,but they will sell more looking like that than the first images in the thread.

Most probably so, I still hope AJP will sell enough to stay around for a while.

I would still prefer a 700 twin for DS application.
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Re: APJ PR7
« Reply #39 on: November 20, 2015, 07:50:40 pm »
Yes here it is - the bling on the bike is just wrong IMO, but still an option:





Stuffing things up, why no 21 inch and pipes routed under bike ? I still prefer the AJP look.
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