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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: Honda Africa Twin launch
« Reply #100 on: December 06, 2015, 06:30:56 pm »
Suspension Travel:

R1150GS              New AfricaTwin
*front-210mm     *front-230mm
*rear-220mm      *rear-220mm

Looking at just the bashplate ground clearance for instance, this comparison says little.
 

Offline JacoM

Re: Honda Africa Twin launch
« Reply #101 on: December 06, 2015, 08:25:15 pm »
Honda At R155 000 - R182 000 aprox
BMW F800GS Adv - R158 000 aprox
BMW R1200GS LC - R199 000 aprox
KTM 1190 Adv R - R190 000 aprox
Triumph Explorer 1200 - R165 000 aprox
Triumph Tiger 800 - R130 000 - R148 000 aprox
Yamaha Super Tenéré 1200 - R168 000 aprox

There are a lot more bikes out there that gives your more bike in the same price range.

Only four of those have 21 ' front wheel size - my personal preference.
 

Offline Dux

Re: Honda Africa Twin launch
« Reply #102 on: December 07, 2015, 07:41:24 am »
Great looking bike & most certainly exceptionally capable!! This is a little comparison I made:

*2004 BMW R1150GS (1130cc)                                      * 2015 Honda AfricaTwin 1000
*228kg dry weight (249kg wet weight)                            * 228-242kg dry weigh depending on which of 3 models you look at
*62.5kw                                                                         * 70kw
*98Nm                                                                           * 98Nm

Although there is a 150cc diference in engine size & 11yrs between the Honda & Beemer, I would've liked to see a bit more power from the Honda with today's technology.

The weight of the Honda is wet weight , fully fueled and ready to ride , for dry weight maybe deduct about 20kg .
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Offline Dux

Re: Honda Africa Twin launch
« Reply #103 on: December 07, 2015, 07:44:10 am »
Honda At R155 000 - R182 000 aprox
BMW F800GS Adv - R158 000 aprox
BMW R1200GS LC - R199 000 aprox
KTM 1190 Adv R - R190 000 aprox
Triumph Explorer 1200 - R165 000 aprox
Triumph Tiger 800 - R130 000 - R148 000 aprox
Yamaha Super Tenéré 1200 - R168 000 aprox

There are a lot more bikes out there that gives your more bike in the same price range.


I don't think the pricing is too bad at all , the base model in my opinion is far superior to the 800 BMW , and the 800 Triumph looks to be a bargain now .
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Offline lecap

Re: Honda Africa Twin launch
« Reply #104 on: December 07, 2015, 11:29:10 am »
I think the new AT's primary target markets are Italy, France and Spain. That's the countries where the AT meets the buyers taste, the countries where large "Enduro" bikes like the old AT and XTZ750 as well as all the large singles were and are popular. There it's more about the bikes image than the actual capabilities.
Germans or Brits love to pry the bikes apart in their magazines, pit them against each other in tests and research elaborately why five millimetres more or less suspension travel make all the difference. Finally the journalists declare a winner (usually BMW) and that's what Otto Normalbiker goes and gets. Regardless if it's the bike he actually needs or not ::)

I see the AT competing primarily against the Triumph Tiger 800XCX and maybe - maybe the F800GS because it's in the same price segment of the market.

I don't se it as a competitor for the Über Adventure bikes. Of course there will be people strapping on panniers and top cases and fitting boxes full of accessories and ride them through Africa but I see the future of most of them transporting wifes or girlfriends to cafés in St. Tropez or Estepona.

Don't get me wrong. I don't think it's a glitz bike which will only be good to go over Kloof Nek to Café Caprice. Absolutely not. But I think it's packing the sex appeal of an old school  Dakar racer to look good exactly there.

South Africa is not the primary target market for these bikes. The south of Europe is and if the buyers love them there (likely without ever taking them off road) they will be around for a while. They seem to be capable medium / large dual sport bikes. A nice bonus for the local buyers and those who will actually go and travel on them.
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Offline LuckyStriker

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Re: Honda Africa Twin launch
« Reply #105 on: December 07, 2015, 12:45:19 pm »
I think the new AT's primary target markets are Italy, France and Spain. That's the countries where the AT meets the buyers taste, the countries where large "Enduro" bikes like the old AT and XTZ750 as well as all the large singles were and are popular. There it's more about the bikes image than the actual capabilities.
Germans or Brits love to pry the bikes apart in their magazines, pit them against each other in tests and research elaborately why five millimetres more or less suspension travel make all the difference. Finally the journalists declare a winner (usually BMW) and that's what Otto Normalbiker goes and gets. Regardless if it's the bike he actually needs or not ::)

I see the AT competing primarily against the Triumph Tiger 800XCX and maybe - maybe the F800GS because it's in the same price segment of the market.

I don't se it as a competitor for the Über Adventure bikes. Of course there will be people strapping on panniers and top cases and fitting boxes full of accessories and ride them through Africa but I see the future of most of them transporting wifes or girlfriends to cafés in St. Tropez or Estepona.

Don't get me wrong. I don't think it's a glitz bike which will only be good to go over Kloof Nek to Café Caprice. Absolutely not. But I think it's packing the sex appeal of an old school  Dakar racer to look good exactly there.

South Africa is not the primary target market for these bikes. The south of Europe is and if the buyers love them there (likely without ever taking them off road) they will be around for a while. They seem to be capable medium / large dual sport bikes. A nice bonus for the local buyers and those who will actually go and travel on them.

Makes sense. You may be right
 

Offline Skaiidawg

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Offline Judge Dredd

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Re: Honda Africa Twin launch
« Reply #107 on: December 17, 2015, 02:30:08 pm »
What to do......what to do!?
 

Offline katana

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Re: Honda Africa Twin launch
« Reply #108 on: December 17, 2015, 02:46:28 pm »
I will wait for a similar Husky 701 review, but it sounds awesome.
If you want to haul ass, you gotta mix gas.
 

Offline Xpat

Re: Honda Africa Twin launch
« Reply #109 on: December 17, 2015, 03:02:13 pm »
I will wait for a similar Husky 701 review, but it sounds awesome.

How are these two bikes even related? The reviews of both will be unequivocaly positive (show me review of anything that isn't) - but these are two completely different categories.

Offline katana

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Re: Honda Africa Twin launch
« Reply #110 on: December 17, 2015, 07:42:47 pm »
I will wait for a similar Husky 701 review, but it sounds awesome.

How are these two bikes even related? The reviews of both will be unequivocaly positive (show me review of anything that isn't) - but these are two completely different categories.

Fair enough.  All i am saying is that the African Twin appeals to me, but if the Husky is all that, I would rather take that.
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Offline Xpat

Re: Honda Africa Twin launch
« Reply #111 on: December 17, 2015, 08:21:43 pm »
There is no chance Husky is going to be anything like AT. It is blue 690, so you can find a lot of input on those bikes, which I think will give you pretty goot idea what 701 will be. It is a dual sport bike (as in plated dirt bike), while AT is adventure bike (anything from going down the road buying smokes to 1000 km a day in the seat) - so completely different usage. You probably will be able to adventurise 701 (I have 690 with rally kit), but it will have no chance to compete with AT in terms of long distance comfort, not even mentioning pillioning. On the other hand AT will hold not candle to 701 in more serious double/single tracks, like Van Zyl's pass or such - even with DCT. 70 kg weight difference is not going to go away, no matter how centralised or low down of whatever it is.

For most people usage (Tankwa/Baviaans/Waterberg shindig) AT will win hands down. 701 will beat it only on focused double/single track riding - like Kaokoland or Namaqualand or some such.

Offline Clint_G

Re: Honda Africa Twin launch
« Reply #112 on: December 18, 2015, 07:17:00 am »
There is no chance Husky is going to be anything like AT. It is blue 690, so you can find a lot of input on those bikes, which I think will give you pretty goot idea what 701 will be. It is a dual sport bike (as in plated dirt bike), while AT is adventure bike (anything from going down the road buying smokes to 1000 km a day in the seat) - so completely different usage. You probably will be able to adventurise 701 (I have 690 with rally kit), but it will have no chance to compete with AT in terms of long distance comfort, not even mentioning pillioning. On the other hand AT will hold not candle to 701 in more serious double/single tracks, like Van Zyl's pass or such - even with DCT. 70 kg weight difference is not going to go away, no matter how centralised or low down of whatever it is.

For most people usage (Tankwa/Baviaans/Waterberg shindig) AT will win hands down. 701 will beat it only on focused double/single track riding - like Kaokoland or Namaqualand or some such.

I couldn't help but read that in a heavy Russian accent.  :lol8:

But agreed completely. Different tools for different jobs. We'd all love the best of both, but it's not possible.
 

Offline LuckyStriker

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Re: Honda Africa Twin launch
« Reply #113 on: December 18, 2015, 02:17:31 pm »
When did dual sport and adventure become something separate?
I didn't get the memo
 

Offline ETS

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Re: Honda Africa Twin launch
« Reply #114 on: December 18, 2015, 02:23:19 pm »
Some people will always find something wrong with everything.
If i had to explain you would not understand anyway......
 

Offline Xpat

Re: Honda Africa Twin launch
« Reply #115 on: December 18, 2015, 03:06:01 pm »
When did dual sport and adventure become something separate?
I didn't get the memo

As far as I know, dual sport is American term for plated dirt bike - bikes that you can use on tar legaly to get to the dirt tracka and then let rip in dirt. And I believe it predates 'adventure' marketing fog invented by Euros for heavy weight long distance cruisers - sometimes capable of dirt roads/sometimes not. For me two different categories that excel at the oposite sides of the long distance dirt riding.

I know the words lost meaning, but I think to the detriments of things as the lack of distinction allows manufacturers to distort the market pushing big heavy bikes supposedly being dual sports and neglecting the 650 market. It will get worse - in Europe most people call GS an Enduro bike (from another german bullshit term 'Reise Enduro'.

Or do you believe that 690/701 and AT are the same category of the bikes that should be looked at by the same target audience? And I'm not putting AT down here - as I said there are areas (prefered by majority) where it will be much better choice than 690/701, which will always be more niche market.