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Offline 2-Stroke

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Re: Honda Africa Twin launch
« Reply #60 on: December 01, 2015, 09:12:19 pm »
If the new AT indeed feels like an offroad bike adapted for a bit of tar road, I see a dim future for it in SA.
As much as people clamour for "real" D/S bikes, the GS still rules the sales charts. Why? Because very few people want a offroad bike adapted for tar.

Dan, I admire the persistence of your pessimism.  :imaposer:
 

Offline Toors

Re: Honda Africa Twin launch
« Reply #61 on: December 01, 2015, 09:14:27 pm »
Toors, you already have a "220kg behemoth" in the 1050! Whats your point?

My point is exactly that. The Africa twin ( whilst by all accounts will be a very good bike), in the way I see it, is no different  to a GS, KTM 1190 or Super tenere.  So same type of bike in the same class doing much of the same thing.

What I have been hoping for. Was a 1000cc bike in the 180kg bracket. This would have given you so much more possibilities offroad.  Yes to Chris Birch it makes no difference,  but to us mere mortal riders that 40kg would have made all the difference in the rough. ..

I thought that Honda had a golden opportunity to give us that bike.  They seemingly gave us a good bike, but not that bike.  Just my opinion  ;)
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Offline shanti

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Re: Honda Africa Twin launch
« Reply #62 on: December 01, 2015, 09:16:53 pm »
why would you want the 1000cc ? Surely 800cc would suffice in the rough , how rough ? Wouldn't 400cc suffice in the really rough ?

Offline Toors

Re: Honda Africa Twin launch
« Reply #63 on: December 01, 2015, 09:31:29 pm »
why would you want the 1000cc ? Surely 800cc would suffice in the rough , how rough ? Wouldn't 400cc suffice in the really rough ?

790, 800, 990 or 1000cc... who cares.  all can give you you adequate powere...

For me the holy grail of a duel sport bike is on that can actually do duel sport.  I.e. it is light enough not to be a real burden off road ( i.e somewhere in the 170/180kg range). Has a real no compromise suspension. 250mm plus travel in front.  But has enough horses to allow you to do longer distances.  Has enough torque to grind through sand in Botswana and nimble enough to commute with.

So the bike that can do most quite well.  So not a tourer with offroad potential.

And yes how rough? To go from here to van zyls pass and over and back.  Yes I am aware  this has been done on GS's but that was hard work. So a bike that can do that without running out of breath on the open road and does not run out of  capabilities  (for an normal rider)  off the beaten track .  For real rough choose a plastic bike of your choice.. .
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Offline shanti

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Re: Honda Africa Twin launch
« Reply #64 on: December 01, 2015, 09:40:29 pm »
I guess the next question to ask would be do you ride alone or two up ?
My KLR had enough torque to grind away in Botswana n sand plus it commuted quite well but I dont think you are alluding to that kind of bike :)
In fact everything you have described could be a KLR or a XT or XR or or 650 class but I suspect its the on-road manners you are actually after .

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Re: Honda Africa Twin launch
« Reply #65 on: December 01, 2015, 09:53:59 pm »
Is it possible to have all we expected of the new AT in a 180kg package? Powerful motor, proper wind protection, big brakes, abs and all the rest of the electronics, comfortable seat, pillion accommodations, proper subframe etc? If it was possible to make a bike like that I'm sure they would. But then again, the old AT set the bar pretty high! Maybe long term reliability and rideability was the bigger focus.
 

Offline Toors

Re: Honda Africa Twin launch
« Reply #66 on: December 01, 2015, 10:12:59 pm »
KLR although a phenomenally reliable bike hardly meets my requirements for a perfect 1 bike duel sport bike.

To get to 180 kg,  might be difficult  and would be expensive. But a KTM:690 only weights 138kg. Surely  the addition of a fairing . Bigger tank, modern electronic, twin engine (parallel or twin) can be done within the weight. A 690 (I have owned 2 meets my offroad requirements but does not meet my distance requirements  (i.e. comfortably cruising at illegal speeds and not getting monkey butt after 200km

So what I was thinking of is a 640 with a twin engine. A HP 2 or 950se or AT ( made with modern lightweight materials and a small fairing)   if you can get  a 450 mx bike to weigh 101kg surely we can make a 180kg perfect duel sport bike?

okay, maybe I am just day dreaming... :3some

and lets get back to the new Africa Twin.  I am looking forward to take on for a outing.

« Last Edit: December 01, 2015, 10:18:28 pm by Toors »
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Offline 2-Stroke

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Re: Honda Africa Twin launch
« Reply #67 on: December 01, 2015, 10:30:42 pm »
Toors, you are completely right, and the manufacturers agree with you. Unfortunately, because of the new Euro4 rubbish, they are already 25-odd kg at a disadvantage compared to the old days. The dry weight of the Africa Twin is 208 kg, so without all that nonsense they are nearly at 180 kg. Still, as I've always said, you can't judge a bike on the spec sheet. It certainly feels a lot lighter than the spec sheet suggests, and ten of us (some not big fans of offroad) did climbs, rocks, soft sand, ruts and allsorts and there was no crashes nor any complaints. Not even a fall over. At all big adventure bike launches involving Offroad there is always at least one.

Also, interestingly, the DCT version is ten kg heavier than the manual, and even in the technical Offroad I couldn't tell the difference.

Still, as you say, 180 kg would be nice. But I think Honda has done very well given their disadvantage.
 

Offline Ganjora

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Re: Honda Africa Twin launch
« Reply #68 on: December 02, 2015, 06:08:16 am »
"The new Africa Twin doesn't feel like a road bike adapted for a bit of offroad. It feels like an offroad bike adapted for a bit of road."

hallelujah,  and praise the lord!!!
 

Offline evansv

Re: Honda Africa Twin launch
« Reply #69 on: December 02, 2015, 06:27:53 am »
Let's face facts, our roads aren't getting any better, so in my opinion a more off road biased bike is a plus. It's one of the reasons I'll look at an AT, as opposed to the other bikes in this class, GS, 1190, etc.
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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: Honda Africa Twin launch
« Reply #70 on: December 02, 2015, 06:46:59 am »
If the new AT indeed feels like an offroad bike adapted for a bit of tar road, I see a dim future for it in SA.
As much as people clamour for "real" D/S bikes, the GS still rules the sales charts. Why? Because very few people want a offroad bike adapted for tar.

Dan, I admire the persistence of your pessimism.  :imaposer:

 :imaposer: Seriously though, I also believe that this is a great bike, and like every other post on here, this is just my personal opinion. 208kgs dry is still a hefty monster, and
the fact that it "feels" lighter than it is, like the XT1200Z, still does not make it light. But they are on the right path.
I like the better ground clearance, and I like the good suspension. Looks are also good.
Brilliant that they went for good torque, and not a outright HP machine.
I hope it sells magnificently, but as I said, the offroad orientation may put the majority of buyers off. Of course, here's to hoping that I am wrong.
 

Offline Coala

Re: Honda Africa Twin launch
« Reply #71 on: December 02, 2015, 06:55:56 am »
I will definately make a plan to test one when an opportunity arises.  For those who have been lucky enough to have had the opportunity: how does it compare to the F800 and the Truimph 800?

And i dont think it will take sales away from the GSes (if by GS one normally refers to the 1200s).  But maybe its more direct competition to answer your question 2StrokeDan is the existing 800 fleet no? 

 
 

Offline shanti

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Re: Honda Africa Twin launch
« Reply #72 on: December 02, 2015, 06:58:30 am »
 Even though the reports of the bike say it  feels light while riding which seems great I would guess the weight will be felt one hot afternoon when the talent has run out and you have to pick the bike up for the 5th time .
How strong do you think the side panels are for low speed fall overs ? More so how strong are the attachment points for the twin radiators ?
 Especially with all this talk of weight it would be sad to add another 5-10kg with that ugly crashbar  

Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: Honda Africa Twin launch
« Reply #73 on: December 02, 2015, 07:11:19 am »
I will definately make a plan to test one when an opportunity arises.  For those who have been lucky enough to have had the opportunity: how does it compare to the F800 and the Truimph 800?

And i dont think it will take sales away from the GSes (if by GS one normally refers to the 1200s).  But maybe its more direct competition to answer your question 2StrokeDan is the existing 800 fleet no? 

 

Yes, IMO the GS1200 is the undisputed king of luxury touring, and it's capabilities is reflected in the 4% dirt usage they see. So, no danger to GS1200 sales, but if I were to
buy a big D/S bike today, I would be dumb not to take a hard look at the AT, with HP and torque figures well above the Triumph and 800GS, yet with seemingly better
off-road capabilities.
A crashbar has only one place, on a bakkie/pypkar, not on a motorcycle. If your bike needs crashbars, something is wrong.
 

Offline edgy

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Re: Honda Africa Twin launch
« Reply #74 on: December 02, 2015, 07:13:52 am »
KLR although a phenomenally reliable bike hardly meets my requirements for a perfect 1 bike duel sport bike.

To get to 180 kg,  might be difficult  and would be expensive. But a KTM:690 only weights 138kg. Surely  the addition of a fairing . Bigger tank, modern electronic, twin engine (parallel or twin) can be done within the weight. A 690 (I have owned 2 meets my offroad requirements but does not meet my distance requirements  (i.e. comfortably cruising at illegal speeds and not getting monkey butt after 200km

So what I was thinking of is a 640 with a twin engine. A HP 2 or 950se or AT ( made with modern lightweight materials and a small fairing)   if you can get  a 450 mx bike to weigh 101kg surely we can make a 180kg perfect duel sport bike?



okay, maybe I am just day dreaming... :3some

and lets get back to the new Africa Twin.  I am looking forward to take on for a outing.





Toros what you are describing is a SE! :biggrin:
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Offline sidetrack

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Re: Honda Africa Twin launch
« Reply #75 on: December 02, 2015, 09:02:16 am »
I will definately make a plan to test one when an opportunity arises.  For those who have been lucky enough to have had the opportunity: how does it compare to the F800 and the Truimph 800?

And i dont think it will take sales away from the GSes (if by GS one normally refers to the 1200s).  But maybe its more direct competition to answer your question 2StrokeDan is the existing 800 fleet no? 

 

Yes, IMO the GS1200 is the undisputed king of luxury touring, and it's capabilities is reflected in the 4% dirt usage they see. So, no danger to GS1200 sales, but if I were to
buy a big D/S bike today, I would be dumb not to take a hard look at the AT, with HP and torque figures well above the Triumph and 800GS, yet with seemingly better
off-road capabilities.
A crashbar has only one place, on a bakkie/pypkar, not on a motorcycle. If your bike needs crashbars, something is wrong.
And it's Japanese, no doubt it's going to be a reliable as the sun coming up every morning
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Offline evansv

Re: Honda Africa Twin launch
« Reply #76 on: December 02, 2015, 09:30:09 am »
At the end of the day, it's what works for you. Does it put a smile on your face!

We're all different (thank God) & what works for one person might not work for another!
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Offline TheBear

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Re: Honda Africa Twin launch
« Reply #77 on: December 02, 2015, 09:47:38 am »
At the end of the day, it's what works for you. Does it put a smile on your face!

We're all different (thank God) & what works for one person might not work for another!


+1000!

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Offline Koet

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Re: Honda Africa Twin launch
« Reply #78 on: December 02, 2015, 10:08:54 am »
Like I said on the other AT thread:  Only once you've ridden the bike will it either touch your soul or not.
Only Bikers understand why dogs love to stick their heads out car windows.
 

Offline Omninorm

Re: Honda Africa Twin launch
« Reply #79 on: December 02, 2015, 10:12:14 am »
But....we do see a lot of people buy bikes not for what they are going to do but for what they THINK they need and are GOING to do.
The Power of Marketing.

The other thing is a lot of people are large so they cant get on a nimble little bike and go ride and get similar performance. They need the power and big seats that come with bigger bikes.


« Last Edit: December 02, 2015, 10:18:27 am by Omninorm »
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