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Author Topic: Bike/car oils. An interesting read  (Read 9062 times)

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Offline SlŠinte Mhaith

Re: Bike/car oils. An interesting read
« Reply #40 on: December 16, 2015, 02:34:05 pm »
One of the highest mileage 640's I have ever seen personally, it did 94000kms before the engine had to be opened because of overheating due to a cracked radiator tank, was run on Castrol GTX all it's life. This despite the fact that "knowledgable experts" warned the owner that his engine would not last unless he uses Motorex.


If he used Motorex he would have gotten 150,000km.   ;)
 

Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: Bike/car oils. An interesting read
« Reply #41 on: December 16, 2015, 04:21:17 pm »
 :laughing4: :laughing4:
 

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Re: Bike/car oils. An interesting read
« Reply #42 on: December 16, 2015, 05:40:32 pm »
There is a huge price difference between Castrol and Motorex though.

OK, I know that if you do not use the Motorex in any KTM, it will immediately blow up spectacularly. The agents says so. :pot:


The problem I have with KTM and Motorex is that the new Huskies are supposed to use Belray.  Same engines.  Al marketing BS.

Exactly!

Please note that I amnot advocating the use of inferior oils, just that marketing should not take money out of your purse.

How the heck do I know which oil. is inferior and which is marketing?

Anyway,  been thinking.  I have yet to see an oil manufacturers advertise their old a best for bikes in a major manner.   Everything that convinced me initially why I should only use bike oil for bikes,  I was fed on this and the TB forums.   
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Re: Bike/car oils. An interesting read
« Reply #43 on: December 16, 2015, 05:43:14 pm »
I buy synthetic Silkolene bike oil for R89 a litre from an industrial Fuchs outlet (Fuchs owns the Silkolene brand).  Bike shops sell the exact same oil for R190 a litre. Not sure if this counts as economy of scale or something else.

R89 versus R190 is obviously a rip-off,  but we were more comparing apples with apples,  I. e.  the same spec oil from the same outlet.

True, however if we could routinely buy synthetic bike oil at the same price as car oil from bike shops, we would not be having this thread.

True,  but I cannot routinely by oil from the Fuchs outlet either.   There are a spares shop or two who will order "bike"  oil for you if you ask.  Agreed,  not routinely either,  but it can be done.
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Offline 2wdrift

Re: Re: Bike/car oils. An interesting read
« Reply #44 on: December 17, 2015, 05:47:05 pm »
Bill, I used Motul in the DR. Changedcevery 2500km. Was also influenced by marketing.------ read some stuff about synthetic oil not that good for some whet clutches.???
Synthetic oil is fine with wet clutches, it has no friction reduction when compared to dino oils. Synthetic oils are just more resistant to breaking down so it can theoretically last longer before needing to be changed.

There are friction reducing additives that actually do work, they will coat the clutch and render it useless. One example is ceratec, its basically ceramic powder in oil that fills the little imperfections on the friction surfaces creating a very smooth surface. Some guys have even dumped the oil in their cars and the bearings were pretty much fine simply because of the ceratec coating. I would recommend it for BMW bikes with dry clutches but a wet clutch will be ruined.

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Offline Kawasefi

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Re:
« Reply #45 on: December 17, 2015, 08:05:58 pm »
Midas sells Castrol Actevo for R75/litre. Not much different to the car equivalent Castrol Magnatec at say R320/5 litre. Both semi synthetic. Actevo conforms to all the specs required for modern bikes with wet clutches. Most of those fancy brands at bike shops have the same spec but priced 2 to 3 times more.

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Offline Kawasefi

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Re:
« Reply #46 on: December 17, 2015, 08:14:06 pm »
Just checked I actually only paid R64/litre for Actevo about 3 months ago. Best value bike oil for sure, probability because its made locally.

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Re: Bike/car oils. An interesting read
« Reply #47 on: December 17, 2015, 08:18:53 pm »
Just checked.   The oil for my last service by the dealer was just on R120 a liter.   This was some fancy fully synthetic used in the new GS.  The price seems fair to me.
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Offline Bensien

Re: Bike/car oils. An interesting read
« Reply #48 on: December 17, 2015, 08:23:53 pm »
I wonít trust a 10W40 oil to protect my engine when Iím doing a slow technical trail in 40+degrees heat. Motorex 10W60 is cheap insurance.
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Offline RobC

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Re: Bike/car oils. An interesting read
« Reply #49 on: December 17, 2015, 08:28:38 pm »
I have been saying for a long time that one of the big farces is KTM and Motorex.

I use KTM as an example, but same goes for most bike brands. I have been using car oil in bikes for years, and with some very high mileage results.

It is not about the rand saving so much, but about the fact that I am no fool. I will not pay more for bullshit.
Agreed.
My KLR has 61k + on the clock, when doing the shims this week I was quite chuffed to see how clean the inside of the motor still was considering I am using a cheap tractor oil... aka Shell Helix 20w50... :sip:
 

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Re: Bike/car oils. An interesting read
« Reply #50 on: December 17, 2015, 08:28:39 pm »
I wonít trust a 10W40 oil to protect my engine when Iím doing a slow technical trail in 40+degrees heat. Motorex 10W60 is cheap insurance.

Does the operating temperature of the engine differ that much?

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Offline Bensien

Re: Bike/car oils. An interesting read
« Reply #51 on: December 17, 2015, 08:38:06 pm »
I wonít trust a 10W40 oil to protect my engine when Iím doing a slow technical trail in 40+degrees heat. Motorex 10W60 is cheap insurance.

Does the operating temperature of the engine differ that much?



With normal use, my bike shows three to four bars on the temperature gauge. I've had had up to six while playing in thick sand.
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Offline RobC

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Re: Bike/car oils. An interesting read
« Reply #52 on: December 17, 2015, 09:07:13 pm »
I wonít trust a 10W40 oil to protect my engine when Iím doing a slow technical trail in 40+degrees heat. Motorex 10W60 is cheap insurance.
Any 10W60 will work... :sip:
 

Offline 2wdrift

Re: Bike/car oils. An interesting read
« Reply #53 on: December 17, 2015, 09:11:22 pm »
I wonít trust a 10W40 oil to protect my engine when Iím doing a slow technical trail in 40+degrees heat. Motorex 10W60 is cheap insurance.

Does the operating temperature of the engine differ that much?



Yes, and with an aircooled engine it will be quite a bit more so.
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Offline OomD

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Re:
« Reply #54 on: January 12, 2016, 07:18:21 am »
Midas sells Castrol Actevo for R75/litre. Not much different to the car equivalent Castrol Magnatec at say R320/5 litre. Both semi synthetic. Actevo conforms to all the specs required for modern bikes with wet clutches. Most of those fancy brands at bike shops have the same spec but priced 2 to 3 times more.

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Strange thing happened. I serviced Swambo's NC700 over the holidays and just assumed that Midas would be the cheapest. Turns out that Honda themselves (Centurion) sells the same Castrol Actevo for about R10/L less than Midas!

Luckily I checked first. There you have it.
 

Offline jaybiker

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Re: Bike/car oils. An interesting read
« Reply #55 on: January 12, 2016, 08:16:54 am »
Fortunately my two bikes are not demanding of the most expensive or the most 'hyped' types of oil.  Also I've always been very trusting of the manufacturers recommendations in 'the book', and I've never owned a bike who's manufacturer has insisted on a specific brand. Just a viscosity range and an API or JASO spec.
Therefore I'm perfectly happy with Helix in the one and Actevo in the other, the brands being just personal preference only.

Just for info though, if anyone can tell me, is there a retail outlet for Fuchs transmission oil in PE?
« Last Edit: January 12, 2016, 08:18:04 am by jaybiker »
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Offline lecap

Re: Bike/car oils. An interesting read
« Reply #56 on: January 12, 2016, 08:23:57 am »
I buy synthetic Silkolene bike oil for R89 a litre from an industrial Fuchs outlet (Fuchs owns the Silkolene brand).  Bike shops sell the exact same oil for R190 a litre. Not sure if this counts as economy of scale or something else.

R89 versus R190 is obviously a rip-off,  but we were more comparing apples with apples,  I. e.  the same spec oil from the same outlet.

True, however if we could routinely buy synthetic bike oil at the same price as car oil from bike shops, we would not be having this thread.

Ravenol Motobike SAE5W40 Ester, complies with JASO MA2; R100 per litre.

And your problem is?
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Offline lecap

Re: Bike/car oils. An interesting read
« Reply #57 on: January 12, 2016, 08:25:18 am »
Habot used to bring out a synthetic base oil, with probably less marketing involved. Are they still around?
.
Have a look at Ravenol.
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Offline subie

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Re: Bike/car oils. An interesting read
« Reply #58 on: January 12, 2016, 08:31:42 am »
Cheers to all our Captain Googles.   :thumleft:
To those instant "technical technicians" whom most
struggle to adjust their own chains or valves but nevertheless chemical and metallurgical giants in the biking
fields.
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Offline lecap

Re: Bike/car oils. An interesting read
« Reply #59 on: January 12, 2016, 08:38:39 am »
I wonít trust a 10W40 oil to protect my engine when Iím doing a slow technical trail in 40+degrees heat. Motorex 10W60 is cheap insurance.

Does the operating temperature of the engine differ that much?



Yes, and with an aircooled engine it will be quite a bit more so.

You are wrong. The temperature differential between ambient temperature and heat sink temperature affects the efficiency of the heat sink.

In plain English: The hotter your air cooled engine gets the more efficient the heat transfer from engine casing to the surrounding air becomes.
The same works for a radiator and a liquid cooled engine.
The air cooled engine will run a little bit hotter on a hot day. You will anyway not need another oil just because your sump oil temperature goes from 110įC to 120įC.
In a modern liquid cooled engine the engine temperature fluctuations caused by an increase in ambient temperature are hardly noticeable as they will be levelled out by the coolant thermostat and the radiator fan.

Last but not least:
The differences in performance of a 40 vs. a 50 vs. a 60 oil at the oil temperatures encountered in a naturally aspirated petrol engine are marginal. Please note we do NOT talk turbo charged Diesel, your bakkie might be better off running on a 50 oil vs. a 40!
The huge difference lies in the cold viscosity: A 5W will perform considerably better on cold start than a 20W
« Last Edit: January 12, 2016, 08:40:03 am by lecap »
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