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Author Topic: TE630 hydraulic clutch failure  (Read 1724 times)

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Offline Xpat

TE630 hydraulic clutch failure
« on: February 11, 2016, 08:13:57 pm »
So, yesterday coming form work my clutch lever went gradually limp leaving me stranded half way. I got the bike back home and tried to bleed the clutch fluid and replace it with new one, but when I press the clutch lever at the handlebars, it is limp - even though I topped up fluid in the top reservoir. Based on procedures I've seen on youtube I expected the fluid to be sucked into the hose (and then let out at the slave cylinder nipple that I have loosened).

Do you thing that the master clutch cylinder has failed (or maybe even slave cylinder, but the fact that fluid is not sucked in at the top indicated to my mind the master cylinder) - is there any way to diagnose that? And if it failed, can I just buy new one and where?

Another question - probably related to this - I'm basicaly unable to engage Neutral when stopped with running engine. I have to always get i there while still moving, otherwise I have to wait for green light with clutch lever in. Do you thing it may be related to the clutch problem (this was problem for quite a while)? Are you able to get to neutral easily on your 610s (I'm assuming there is noone around with 630)?

Thanks a mil.

Offline BiG DoM

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Re: TE630 hydraulic clutch failure
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2016, 08:24:59 pm »
The difficulty in finding neutral is a well documented 610/630 gearbox characteristic - some get it right with a blip and jab just before coming to rest …raising the revs and allowing one to engage neutral. Others just live with it.

When you took the lid off the top reservoir was it empty … or almost empty? If so the system needs a good bleed with fresh hydraulic fluid.
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Offline Xpat

Re: TE630 hydraulic clutch failure
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2016, 08:32:16 pm »
Thanks BD.

There was some fluid left, but I went for replacement anyway. The problem is, when I'm following the replacement procedure I've seen on youtube (i.e. open top reservoir, push the clutch lever in, release screw at the slave cylinder to bleed the fluid), there is almost no pressure in the system to push the fluid out at the bottom. And the fluid at the top reservoir stays at the same level - indicating to this idiot that it is not being sucked in by the master cylinder.

Is my logic flawed? I would expect that if I'm trying to push fluid top down from top reservoir to bottle at the bottom (after I applied pressure on the lever and afterwards opened the nipple/screw at the bottom), the fluid should be disapearing from the top reservoir. Also the clutch lever is limp and doesn't seem to get purchase indicating to me that the fluid in top reservoir is not getting into master cylinder.

Thanks again.

Offline bonova

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Re: TE630 hydraulic clutch failure
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2016, 08:32:30 pm »
Dom has the right question. Full or empty when u opened it. If full....ur master seal is farked. These are pretty easy to replace the internals. If empty....then id say slave or needs to be bled.
Is there any leakage down at the slave?  I dont know the bike but the katooms leak and it can be seen.
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Offline Xpat

Re: TE630 hydraulic clutch failure
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2016, 08:35:46 pm »
Dom has the right question. Full or empty when u opened it. If full....ur master seal is farked. These are pretty easy to replace the internals. If empty....then id say slave or needs to be bled.
Is there any leakage down at the slave?  I dont know the bike but the katooms leak and it can be seen.

There is no leakage at the slave as far as I can see. Yes there was some fluid left at the top, probably a bit low. I have topped it up while trying to bleed it and it doesn't seem to be sucked in when I'm pushing the clutch lever. So my suspicion is either master cylinder is not sucking (i.e. the seal is gone) or the hole from the reservoir into the master cylinder is blocked.

Where can I get new seals/master cylinder repair kits? I have Magura clutch on the Husky - do you think KTM kit may fit?

Thanks again.

Offline bonova

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Re: TE630 hydraulic clutch failure
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2016, 08:37:08 pm »
Thanks BD.

There was some fluid left, but I went for replacement anyway. The problem is, when I'm following the replacement procedure I've seen on youtube (i.e. open top reservoir, push the clutch lever in, release screw at the slave cylinder to bleed the fluid), there is almost no pressure in the system to push the fluid out at the bottom. And the fluid at the top reservoir stays at the same level - indicating to this idiot that it is not being sucked in by the master cylinder.

Is my logic flawed? I would expect that if I'm trying to push fluid top down from top reservoir to bottle at the bottom (after I applied pressure on the lever and afterwards opened the nipple/screw at the bottom), the fluid should be disapearing from the top reservoir. Also the clutch lever is limp and doesn't seem to get purchase indicating to me that the fluid in top reservoir is not getting into master cylinder.

Thanks again.

If there are bubbles in the system its sometimes hard to bleed the way u doing it. Im assuming u are doing it over and over a few times? (Compress clutch...open nipple....close nipple...release clutch slowly...repeat. It takes a number of cycles to get fluid out the bottom if there is air in the system cause air is compressible. Sometimes u need to pressure bleed the system from the bottom nipple.
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Offline Xpat

Re: TE630 hydraulic clutch failure
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2016, 08:43:19 pm »
Thanks bonova. Yes I have tried couple of times - maybe I need the pressure bleed. How do I do that - do I need syringe, or something to suck the liquid out?

I'm still perplexed though that the master cylinder is not sucking the fluid in from the top reservoir.

Offline M3X3Z3

Re: TE630 hydraulic clutch failure
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2016, 08:45:04 pm »
On my SM630  I have had the nylon piston (actuated by the clutch lever) in the master cylinder wear relatively quickly and leak fluid into the boot around the clutch lever.
Also noticed the fluid in the reservoir was muggy and dirty which could lead to blockages in the system.
I would recommend reverse bleeding your clutch fluid so that if there is any dirt or blockage in the master cylinder it will be pushed back out from the bottom.

Because of the second failure of the piston in the master cylinder I am tempted to get a new master cylinder assembly instead of another piston kit.
Check your master cylinder piston to see if it hasn't worn to the point where it cant build pressure.

Right now I am getting all my Husky spares from BikersWarehouse, dunno about importing from places like Halls in the US.
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Offline bonova

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Re: TE630 hydraulic clutch failure
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2016, 08:49:21 pm »
Ja suspicious for master cylinder seal. Can i assume u use the correct brake fluid/mineral oil?
The hole is unlikely to block unless junk got in there and u can remove the slave and pressurize the piston to push fluid back into the master reservoir pretty easily.
Was the fluid really dirty/black?
If you strip it you will note that the seal/piston is farked pretty easily....or that the cylinder is scoured.

To pressure bleed from the bottom yes u need a syringe and tubing that seals on the nipple. And u suck the fluid out the top with a syringe too
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Offline Xpat

Re: TE630 hydraulic clutch failure
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2016, 08:56:00 pm »
Thank you. The bike was standing for more than a year and there were little particles in the clutch fluid, so my suspicion is blockage somewhere. But I will take the master cylinder apart and check the piston and seals. I used DOT4 brake/clutch fluid - nothing fancy, just what I bought at the Engen where I broke down. But as I said, it is DOT4, so I assume the right specification.

I will try to get it fixed tomorrow, if it doesn't work will have to take it to somebody who knows what they are doing.

Thanks again for advice.

Offline BiG DoM

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Re: TE630 hydraulic clutch failure
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2016, 09:00:07 pm »
You can get large syringes at Clicks or a pharmacy and then just use clear plastic tubing to attach to bleed nipple. Reverse bleed may be the answer.
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Offline M3X3Z3

Re: TE630 hydraulic clutch failure
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2016, 09:02:15 pm »
Husky manual says to use Hydraulic Clutch fluid - Magura fluid cover says to use Mineral oil only.

I would not use DOT4 brake fluid.
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Offline lowrider

Re: TE630 hydraulic clutch failure
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2016, 07:20:34 am »
My Te450 (I know, not the same bike) also struggles to select neutral when idling..usually a blip of the throttle helps to find neutral; I have learnt to live with it.

As for the clutch bleeding, my manual says the magura uses mineral oil (Magura blood afaik) Apparently you can use baby oil if you are stuck somewhere without the right stuff?
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Offline Xpat

Re: TE630 hydraulic clutch failure
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2016, 07:46:23 am »
Thank you, I will get the proper oil.

Regarding the neutral, I have tried of course blipping and all other known tricks, but it is stuck there as in cement. My suspicion is that it's natural unwillingness to get to Neutral was made much worse by clutch fluid deterioration (had the same problem on Tenere, when I had too much slack on the clutch lever), so will fix that first and then play with Neutral.

Thanks for the answers.

Offline lowrider

Re: TE630 hydraulic clutch failure
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2016, 07:48:29 am »
You might have damaged the seals by using brake fluid...just a thought...Good luck.
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Offline bonova

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Re: TE630 hydraulic clutch failure
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2016, 01:09:43 pm »
You might have damaged the seals by using brake fluid...just a thought...Good luck.

Yeah - Unfortunately If its supposed to take mineral and u used dot 4 then the seals fark out pretty fast :( (then I hope that the hole was blocked and the fluid didn't get into the actual cylinder.)
Hope you come right dude - let us know what you find
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if u are interested in something no matter what it is, go at it full speed ahead, luke warm is no good, hot is no good either, white hot and passionate is the only thing to be...