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Author Topic: MotoGP versus WSBK times.  (Read 2843 times)

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Offline cocky

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Re: MotoGP versus WSBK times.
« Reply #20 on: February 29, 2016, 09:57:52 am »
The thing the WSBK riders must adjust to, according to Johnny Rae, is the brakes/ mid corner speed/ tyres and acceleration. I read a interview with him after a few wild card rides in MotoGP, he says the brakes and tyres play a huge roll. The power is the similar, but then the weight is the big difference.
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Offline sidetrack

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Re: MotoGP versus WSBK times.
« Reply #21 on: February 29, 2016, 10:07:02 am »
I just know very few SBK riders had any success in MotoGP, other way around looks to be easier.
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Offline TheBear

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Re: MotoGP versus WSBK times.
« Reply #22 on: February 29, 2016, 10:54:05 am »
I just know very few SBK riders had any success in MotoGP, other way around looks to be easier.

This is very true.  One thing that needs to be considered (which may, or may not have a big impact) is that MotoGP riders coming to WSBK usually comes to "winning" factory teams.  The opposite is seldomly true.   In fact, until Dorna changed the rule to suit Repsol Honda and their choice of Marc Marquez as rider, a rookie was not even allowed to ride for a factory team in his first year of MotoGP.

« Last Edit: February 29, 2016, 10:58:51 am by TheBear »
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Offline Battlestar

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Re: MotoGP versus WSBK times.
« Reply #23 on: February 29, 2016, 02:54:20 pm »
Here is a comparrison i did from the 2010 season on a previous thread

http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=55908.0

Now that we have almost completed the season I thought I would share the qualifying times of both series at the same tracks over the season

Track                                    WSBK Time         MotoGP Times

Assen                                   1:34.944            1:34.515
Silverstone                           2:04.091            2:03.308
Brno                                     1:58.018            1:56.508
Misano                                 1:35.001            1:34.340
Phillip Island                        1:31.229            Still to race

Quiet interesting. Allot closer than I thought. The Moto GP machines have the edge on top end. When comparing top speeds on the above tracks they are almost 10-15kph quicker in a straight line especially at Brno
« Last Edit: February 29, 2016, 02:54:54 pm by Battlestar »
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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: MotoGP versus WSBK times.
« Reply #24 on: February 29, 2016, 05:32:45 pm »
This gap is not lightyears at all, in fact if you consider the base of each class, ie. customer-sales bikes[modified] to MotoGP which is full factory pukka works bikes.

Go back to the 80's and you'll find a Honda Bol'd'or Superbike racer will have been a LOT slower around any track than a NSR500.

Go back to Barry Sheene on the 1976 RG500, and see how that will annihilate a Z1000 AMA bike around a track!!

The roadbikes are getting so sharp, with some fiddling, Ok a lot of fiddling, they actually come scarily close to works machines. This is progress, racing improves the breed.

Come on Dan, .5s/km is huge! :)

I havent looked at the times on other circuits, but I suspect the margins will differ a lot, depending on circuit

It is huge, if the two bikes were in the same class. But the one is a production based racer, and the other a full factory bike. These production-based bikes are creeping closer and closer laptime-wise.
We are comparing the 2 classes' laptimes not for the purpose of a race, but for comparison between what was always a way slower class than GP racing.
 

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Re: MotoGP versus WSBK times.
« Reply #25 on: February 29, 2016, 06:08:31 pm »
This gap is not lightyears at all, in fact if you consider the base of each class, ie. customer-sales bikes[modified] to MotoGP which is full factory pukka works bikes.

Go back to the 80's and you'll find a Honda Bol'd'or Superbike racer will have been a LOT slower around any track than a NSR500.

Go back to Barry Sheene on the 1976 RG500, and see how that will annihilate a Z1000 AMA bike around a track!!

The roadbikes are getting so sharp, with some fiddling, Ok a lot of fiddling, they actually come scarily close to works machines. This is progress, racing improves the breed.

Come on Dan, .5s/km is huge! :)

I havent looked at the times on other circuits, but I suspect the margins will differ a lot, depending on circuit

It is huge, if the two bikes were in the same class. But the one is a production based racer, and the other a full factory bike. These production-based bikes are creeping closer and closer laptime-wise.
We are comparing the 2 classes' laptimes not for the purpose of a race, but for comparison between what was always a way slower class than GP racing.

The statement was " The gap is teensy"
Racing comparison between 2 bikes/cars, irrelevant of class, will be measured by seconds. Half a second/km is huge in any format, although I actually expected it to be bigger
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Offline TheBear

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Re: MotoGP versus WSBK times.
« Reply #26 on: February 29, 2016, 07:15:48 pm »

The statement was " The gap is teensy"



That was my statement,  not Dan's.   I still consider it teensy.

Should you wish to debate semantics,  I suggest you ping Wooly Bugger.    :pot:  :imaposer:
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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: MotoGP versus WSBK times.
« Reply #27 on: February 29, 2016, 09:49:09 pm »
This gap is not lightyears at all, in fact if you consider the base of each class, ie. customer-sales bikes[modified] to MotoGP which is full factory pukka works bikes.

Go back to the 80's and you'll find a Honda Bol'd'or Superbike racer will have been a LOT slower around any track than a NSR500.

Go back to Barry Sheene on the 1976 RG500, and see how that will annihilate a Z1000 AMA bike around a track!!

The roadbikes are getting so sharp, with some fiddling, Ok a lot of fiddling, they actually come scarily close to works machines. This is progress, racing improves the breed.

Come on Dan, .5s/km is huge! :)

I havent looked at the times on other circuits, but I suspect the margins will differ a lot, depending on circuit

It is huge, if the two bikes were in the same class. But the one is a production based racer, and the other a full factory bike. These production-based bikes are creeping closer and closer laptime-wise.
We are comparing the 2 classes' laptimes not for the purpose of a race, but for comparison between what was always a way slower class than GP racing.

The statement was " The gap is teensy"
Racing comparison between 2 bikes/cars, irrelevant of class, will be measured by seconds. Half a second/km is huge in any format, although I actually expected it to be bigger

And not so teensy? :pot: :peepwall:
 

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Re: MotoGP versus WSBK times.
« Reply #28 on: March 01, 2016, 10:01:41 am »
During the 2015 season:

MotoGP Argentina:  Gap between 1st and 2nd - 5,685 seconds.  (Huge gap?  Teensy gap?)

Moto3 Losail:  Gap between 1st and 15th - 5,119 seconds.  (Huge gap?  Teensy gap?)


 :ricky:

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Re: MotoGP versus WSBK times.
« Reply #29 on: March 02, 2016, 03:47:08 pm »
This is an old debate. Comparing one lap is a bit useless. That's why a race is 24 laps.

The Wsbk tyres go off much quicker. After about 10 laps their tyres are gone. Whereas the Moto Gp guys are hitting those same lap time for 30 laps.
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Re: MotoGP versus WSBK times.
« Reply #30 on: March 02, 2016, 04:05:16 pm »
Good thing they are not racing old 500cc 2T's anymore otherwise the WSB's would have been faster  :peepwall:
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Offline TheBear

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Re: MotoGP versus WSBK times.
« Reply #31 on: March 02, 2016, 08:19:19 pm »
This is an old debate. Comparing one lap is a bit useless. That's why a race is 24 laps.

The Wsbk tyres go off much quicker. After about 10 laps their tyres are gone. Whereas the Moto Gp guys are hitting those same lap time for 30 laps.

Comparing 1 lap is perfectly useful for me as it is purely about the performance of the bikes and not the tires.   

By the way,  you are wrong about MotoGP tires not going off as well.
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Offline TheBear

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Re: MotoGP versus WSBK times.
« Reply #32 on: March 02, 2016, 08:20:26 pm »
Good thing they are not racing old 500cc 2T's anymore otherwise the WSB's would have been faster  :peepwall:

A modern day Moto3 250 is faster around a track than a 1980's 500.
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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: MotoGP versus WSBK times.
« Reply #33 on: March 02, 2016, 08:51:17 pm »
Good thing they are not racing old 500cc 2T's anymore otherwise the WSB's would have been faster  :peepwall:

A modern day Moto3 250 is faster around a track than a 1980's 500.

To me, in the 70/80's it would have been unthinkable that one day a single cylinder 4stroke quarter-litre bike would be faster than an 500cc square-4 2stroke of our era. :eek7:

All in the chassis. The 1976 RG500 produced around 110HP, the 2015 Moto3 250 around 50.
 

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Re: MotoGP versus WSBK times.
« Reply #34 on: March 02, 2016, 11:04:14 pm »
This is an old debate. Comparing one lap is a bit useless. That's why a race is 24 laps.

The Wsbk tyres go off much quicker. After about 10 laps their tyres are gone. Whereas the Moto Gp guys are hitting those same lap time for 30 laps.

Comparing 1 lap is perfectly useful for me as it is purely about the performance of the bikes and not the tires.   

By the way,  you are wrong about MotoGP tires not going off as well.

Go look at Marquez last lap at Philip Island last year
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Offline TheBear

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Re: MotoGP versus WSBK times.
« Reply #35 on: March 03, 2016, 11:35:49 am »
This is an old debate. Comparing one lap is a bit useless. That's why a race is 24 laps.

The Wsbk tyres go off much quicker. After about 10 laps their tyres are gone. Whereas the Moto Gp guys are hitting those same lap time for 30 laps.

Comparing 1 lap is perfectly useful for me as it is purely about the performance of the bikes and not the tires.  

By the way,  you are wrong about MotoGP tires not going off as well.

Go look at Marquez last lap at Philip Island last year

Janee.  One fast last lap in a season.


Read what Jorge Lorenzo just said after 2016 Losail testing

“The electronics are quite less sophisticated so we need to pay a lot of attention to the throttle, especially when the rear tyre starts to drop, so it's more demanding because physically and mentally you have to be always careful and I think for the smoother rider, these things are going to be better, so let's see. "

and Scott Redding in 2015:

“Misano is a very different circuit to Silverstone. It’s still got some fast corners but it’s also more technical in places. I normally enjoy racing there, but we will need to see how the resurfacing has changed things, as it’s likely to be more abrasive which means tyre wear could be an issue."

Dovizioso in 2015:

“Today we didn’t have such a bad race pace, but after a few laps the front tyre started to deteriorate, and I was no longer able to brake well."

Marquez in 2015:

“Looks like everybody will use the same tyre. In the end we don’t know. But looks like everybody will use 33 in front, that is the medium one and the soft option on the rear. But maybe the key point will be try to manage the rear tire because if you push all the laps on the limit you can overheat at a little bit and then the movement and the slide start and you must be very smooth."

Anyway, like I said, for me it is about the performance of the one bike versus the other and not their tire wear through a whole race.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2016, 11:36:36 am by TheBear »
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Offline TheBear

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Re: MotoGP versus WSBK times.
« Reply #36 on: March 03, 2016, 12:31:08 pm »
Good thing they are not racing old 500cc 2T's anymore otherwise the WSB's would have been faster  :peepwall:

A modern day Moto3 250 is faster around a track than a 1980's 500.

To me, in the 70/80's it would have been unthinkable that one day a single cylinder 4stroke quarter-litre bike would be faster than an 500cc square-4 2stroke of our era. :eek7:

All in the chassis. The 1976 RG500 produced around 110HP, the 2015 Moto3 250 around 50.

Indeed.  All in the chassis and the modern era tracks do not have these mile long straights anymore, either.



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