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Author Topic: BRAD BINDER: 2016 Moto3 - It is time #41 Bradical!  (Read 39804 times)

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Offline I&horse

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Re: Brad Binder 1st from 35 on grid!
« Reply #60 on: April 24, 2016, 12:28:34 pm »
Brilliant Binder! I have no nails left. What was the infringement? Something to do with the electronics?
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Offline TheBear

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Re: Brad Binder 1st from 35 on grid!
« Reply #61 on: April 24, 2016, 12:29:43 pm »
Sorry missed that thread in the racing section  ::)

No problem with starting a new thread on something as hot as this.  I just thought, since you are interested you would enjoy that thread and the discussions there.  :thumleft:

You need to excuse me.  Due to my race bike scrtuneering days I got to know Brad, Darryn and Dad Binder, so I get a tad overly excited .....
« Last Edit: April 24, 2016, 12:32:48 pm by TheBear »
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Offline TheBear

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Re: Brad Binder 1st from 35 on grid!
« Reply #62 on: April 24, 2016, 12:31:06 pm »
Brilliant Binder! I have no nails left. What was the infringement? Something to do with the electronics?

They used a "non-homologated" ECU.  This does not necessarily mean it is illegal.  It could have been one, not stamped and sealed by the authorities.  Stupid mistake by the team technicians.
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Offline I&horse

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Re: BRAD BINDER: 2016 Moto3 - It is time #41 Bradical!
« Reply #63 on: April 24, 2016, 01:45:28 pm »
Brad you biscuit. One for the history books!
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Offline BlueBull2007

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Re: BRAD BINDER: 2016 Moto3 - It is time #41 Bradical!
« Reply #64 on: April 24, 2016, 02:47:43 pm »
Brilliant stuff Brad!!!
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Offline chewey

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Re: BRAD BINDER: 2016 Moto3 - It is time #41 Bradical!
« Reply #65 on: April 24, 2016, 03:18:31 pm »
Awesome stuff Brad.
 

Offline TheBear

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Re: BRAD BINDER: 2016 Moto3 - It is time #41 Bradical!
« Reply #66 on: April 24, 2016, 06:18:54 pm »
I wonder if Brad allowed the techie responsible for the ECU error, to remove the offending ECU from his posterior after the race win?    :imaposer:
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Offline Kamanya

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Re: BRAD BINDER: 2016 Moto3 - It is time #41 Bradical!
« Reply #67 on: April 24, 2016, 06:49:13 pm »
I watched the whole race again from the rear facing camera on his bike. (I have a Motogp account and it has optional camera views from multiple riders) Twice he had guys outbraking themselves and nearly taking him off. He was super lucky with the first one as it was a pretty decent hit and the guy went on to skittle others out of the race. He also had a few rubs with others whilst passing on the inside.

His win was an epic thing, but he also got a little bit of luck to help him along. His self belief has noticeably risen a notch or two!
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Offline Sithe

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Re: BRAD BINDER: 2016 Moto3 - It is time #41 Bradical!
« Reply #68 on: April 24, 2016, 06:51:23 pm »
BRADical!   MAGICAL!!!
the way he walked away from the field, I would think that motor is being torn down as we speak. 😎

No doubt.  Top three get strip down after every race anyway.  


Who strips the bikes down, race control, when? I am sure there is data logging and download but I don't believe the strip down part.
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Offline TheBear

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Re: BRAD BINDER: 2016 Moto3 - It is time #41 Bradical!
« Reply #69 on: April 24, 2016, 07:22:15 pm »
BRADical!   MAGICAL!!!
the way he walked away from the field, I would think that motor is being torn down as we speak. 😎

No doubt.  Top three get strip down after every race anyway.  


Who strips the bikes down, race control, when? I am sure there is data logging and download but I don't believe the strip down part.

Quote from: TheBear

No doubt.  Top three get possible strip down after every race anyway.  

That being said, they may use (not sure abut rules this year) the sealed engine system and then they will only strip if there is an official protest, the telemetry show something untoward, or the TC's picked up something.  Also, first step would be a dyno run.  If dyno shows power figures to be expected they won't strip.


You are correct.  I did not express myself properly in the first sentence (please see edit).  I thought my second would explain properly.  If stripped (note the bold part of my post as well), it will be done by a selected and accredited workshop, under supervision of Race Direction, within a specified period.  I don't know what that period is in this series.  

These days, "cheating" with engine mods is very rare.  There is a few reasons for that:

-  Many classes (Moto3 is one) are Claimed Rules Classes.  This means any team can claim your engine after a race.  The fee last year was E20k.  You cannot refuse if your engine is claimed.  
-  Engines are sealed.
-  Engines are carefully watched during the season as you have a limited number you can use.
-  Hardware changing on an engine already at the limit have a huge impact in reliability.

Where "cheating" does take place is with electronics.  For instance, all Moto 3 bikes have an upper rev limit rule.  If your ECU allow only a few hundred more revs it will make a marked difference.  This is carefully controlled and reasonably easily checked.  The reason why Brad started last on the grid today.


The procedure after a race is roughly:

-  Top three bikes go to Parc Ferme and stay there till released by race direction.  Teams are not allowed any work on them there.
-  After a specified period (30 minutes in SA) the bikes are released to the teams if there were no protests. 
-  Race Direction can and do request checks on the bikes while in Parc Ferme.  The Scrutineers will do these checks.  It could be seals on the engine, is the specified tires on the bike, etc.
-  If something is found, or there is a protest, the bikes can be impounded for further inspection.  This could lead to dyno runs and even engine stripping.



 
« Last Edit: April 24, 2016, 07:35:16 pm by TheBear »
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Re: BRAD BINDER: 2016 Moto3 - It is time #41 Bradical!
« Reply #70 on: April 24, 2016, 08:25:10 pm »
I watched the whole race again from the rear facing camera on his bike. (I have a Motogp account and it has optional camera views from multiple riders) Twice he had guys outbraking themselves and nearly taking him off. He was super lucky with the first one as it was a pretty decent hit and the guy went on to skittle others out of the race. He also had a few rubs with others whilst passing on the inside.

His win was an epic thing, but he also got a little bit of luck to help him along. His self belief has noticeably risen a notch or two!

The more you practice the luckier you get  :biggrin:
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Re: BRAD BINDER: 2016 Moto3 - It is time #41 Bradical!
« Reply #71 on: April 24, 2016, 08:34:34 pm »
You start last on the grid in a class this competitive, then you pass every single rider to win????

Sorry boet, please go check that ECU again for us. :imaposer:

Seriously, if you struggle to pass your opponents in the top 5 places in any normal race, how on earth do you start last, then CATCH UP to them, the still passes them??

I am sceptical.

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Offline TheBear

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Re: BRAD BINDER: 2016 Moto3 - It is time #41 Bradical!
« Reply #72 on: April 24, 2016, 08:45:05 pm »
You start last on the grid in a class this competitive, then you pass every single rider to win????

Sorry boet, please go check that ECU again for us. :imaposer:

Seriously, if you struggle to pass your opponents in the top 5 places in any normal race, how on earth do you start last, then CATCH UP to them, the still passes them??

I am sceptical.

[but proud]

It happens.

Marc Marquez, 2012, Moto2, Valencia.  Last (33rd) to first.
Danny Kent, 2014 or 2015, Moto3.  Can't remember the details, or find it on Google right now.

Interestingly, two riders did all their Free Practise runs on old tires this past weekend.  Valentino Rossi and Brad Binder.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2016, 08:49:50 pm by TheBear »
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Offline Kamanya

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Re: BRAD BINDER: 2016 Moto3 - It is time #41 Bradical!
« Reply #73 on: April 24, 2016, 08:53:46 pm »
You start last on the grid in a class this competitive, then you pass every single rider to win????

Sorry boet, please go check that ECU again for us. :imaposer:

Seriously, if you struggle to pass your opponents in the top 5 places in any normal race, how on earth do you start last, then CATCH UP to them, the still passes them??

I am sceptical.

[but proud]

I have watched the race a few times now from a few perspectives. There are a few noticeable things;

His bike on the slower riders is quicker at the top end, I presume has an HP advantage. He was dragging away from them out of the turns. This is not the case when he got to the front runners.
He makes large gains on everyone under braking. It's meters at a time with the slower guys. When he gets to the faster guys, his rear steps out under braking more than the other guys and he holds tighter lines. So his braking is where large chunks of time was made up.
Lastly, his bike is much steadier through the corners than the others, he must have nailed his suspension setup.

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« Last Edit: April 24, 2016, 08:55:33 pm by Kamanya »
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Offline TheBear

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Re: BRAD BINDER: 2016 Moto3 - It is time #41 Bradical!
« Reply #74 on: April 24, 2016, 09:12:25 pm »
Brad did have the highest top speed on the day.  0,2km/h faster than the riders who finished 2, 3 and 4.  His fastest lap was only 0.263, 0.336 and 0.375 faster than the guys who finished behind him.    His bike was therefore not that much faster.  The big difference is that he was consistently faster.  Like the commentator said: "An angry Brad is a very fast Brad".  This could be seen as you mentioned, under braking and lines through corners.

Brad's brother, on a dog of a bike, made it from 31st to 14th before he crashed.   Also a rather amazing climb through the field.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2016, 09:14:13 pm by TheBear »
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Offline Jag man

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Re: BRAD BINDER: 2016 Moto3 - It is time #41 Bradical!
« Reply #75 on: April 24, 2016, 09:51:56 pm »
You start last on the grid in a class this competitive, then you pass every single rider to win????

Sorry boet, please go check that ECU again for us. :imaposer:

Seriously, if you struggle to pass your opponents in the top 5 places in any normal race, how on earth do you start last, then CATCH UP to them, the still passes them??

I am sceptical.

[but proud]
Take the win and see the future
 

Offline TheBear

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Re: BRAD BINDER: 2016 Moto3 - It is time #41 Bradical!
« Reply #76 on: April 24, 2016, 10:05:06 pm »
You start last on the grid in a class this competitive, then you pass every single rider to win????

Sorry boet, please go check that ECU again for us. :imaposer:

Seriously, if you struggle to pass your opponents in the top 5 places in any normal race, how on earth do you start last, then CATCH UP to them, the still passes them??

I am sceptical.

[but proud]
Take the win and see the future

+1

If there was anything untoward about the bike, scrutineering will pick it up.
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Offline whitedelight

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Re: BRAD BINDER: 2016 Moto3 - It is time #41 Bradical!
« Reply #77 on: April 25, 2016, 12:33:22 am »
This is what he needed the most. Now he knows he can win, I reckon he gonna be a force to reckon with this season. I was just amazed his tyres lasted so well.
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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: BRAD BINDER: 2016 Moto3 - It is time #41 Bradical!
« Reply #78 on: April 25, 2016, 07:10:46 am »
This is what he needed the most. Now he knows he can win, I reckon he gonna be a force to reckon with this season. I was just amazed his tyres lasted so well.

Don't get me wrong, to me this is one amazing achievement, especially special since he is SAcan. It is just that even if he started in front, could he, in this class, make up the sort of gap that he did this time?
OK, I know he did, because he started last and won, it is just so amazing.
 

Offline evansv

Re: BRAD BINDER: 2016 Moto3 - It is time #41 Bradical!
« Reply #79 on: April 25, 2016, 07:15:12 am »
Agreed, but it's been done in the past probably more than you think.
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