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Author Topic: West Coast Baja 2016  (Read 38374 times)

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Offline Kamanya

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Re: West Coast Baja 2016 Updates
« Reply #300 on: March 30, 2016, 09:29:54 am »
2. The acceleromiter will kick in at a predetermined G. (I am still looking for someone to test fall  :laughing4: so we can get some reference.  The 'accident' alarm will sound different form the overtake one.  This option could also be manually activated if stuck on the 'other side' of the dune. Seen quite a few of those accidents in Dakar over the years.


The newest helmet cams measure all sorts of biometric data. A recent video I saw of a motorcross guy just going around a track pegged the max G @ 12.9. That's without crashing. I don't know if the sensor is bike mounted, body or helmet mounted.

https://www.google.co.za/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&ved=0ahUKEwiTiJCU8OfLAhVE7RQKHbLjBBQQtwIINTAD&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DnycHV-fWOvk&usg=AFQjCNGesPvaRPm4ePHA8SQ4KMTdu49ieA&sig2=Nwuc_WBRFj7w6ab0fZoPtA
« Last Edit: March 30, 2016, 09:30:27 am by Kamanya »
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Offline bonova

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Re: West Coast Baja 2016 Updates
« Reply #301 on: March 30, 2016, 09:54:34 am »
2. The acceleromiter will kick in at a predetermined G. (I am still looking for someone to test fall  :laughing4: so we can get some reference.  The 'accident' alarm will sound different form the overtake one.  This option could also be manually activated if stuck on the 'other side' of the dune. Seen quite a few of those accidents in Dakar over the years.


The newest helmet cams measure all sorts of biometric data. A recent video I saw of a motorcross guy just going around a track pegged the max G @ 12.9. That's without crashing. I don't know if the sensor is bike mounted, body or helmet mounted.

https://www.google.co.za/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&ved=0ahUKEwiTiJCU8OfLAhVE7RQKHbLjBBQQtwIINTAD&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DnycHV-fWOvk&usg=AFQjCNGesPvaRPm4ePHA8SQ4KMTdu49ieA&sig2=Nwuc_WBRFj7w6ab0fZoPtA

I had a TomTom Helmet cam on when I crashed. It should have had the accelerometer on.... Evidently there is some good footage but I haven't seen it yet. Once it gets to me i'll look into that ;)
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Offline Kamanya

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Re: West Coast Baja 2016 Updates
« Reply #302 on: March 30, 2016, 12:07:55 pm »
I had a TomTom Helmet cam on when I crashed. It should have had the accelerometer on.... Evidently there is some good footage but I haven't seen it yet. Once it gets to me i'll look into that ;)

...and post it up for us too.
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Offline JustBendIt

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Re: West Coast Baja 2016 Updates
« Reply #303 on: March 30, 2016, 12:16:48 pm »
Bonova - shouldn't it be called a "deceleromoter" in your case ?
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Offline SteveD

Re: West Coast Baja 2016 Updates
« Reply #304 on: March 30, 2016, 12:32:53 pm »
Final results have been posted, in high res detail, per category, per day as requested.
Not much changed, but a few people with GPS issues should be happier now.

http://www.amageza.com/#!blank-1/odxej
 

Offline Kamanya

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Re: West Coast Baja 2016 Updates
« Reply #305 on: March 30, 2016, 12:47:33 pm »
Final results have been posted, in high res detail, per category, per day as requested.
Not much changed, but a few people with GPS issues should be happier now.

http://www.amageza.com/#!blank-1/odxej

I've always thought that speeding penalties should be a hefty part of the navigation and rightly so - It's a tough thing to do to have the discipline not to speed and to sit right on the edge for any length of time. But I am curious as to why a stop penalty is 10 minutes and 2 speeding is only 33 seconds as in G Mortons case? Shouldn't it be the other way around?
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Offline Gavin

Re: West Coast Baja 2016 Updates
« Reply #306 on: March 30, 2016, 01:52:49 pm »
I guess rules are rules and talking about the other way around , can you explain how 2 riders that did the route the wrong way around are still in the results ?Funny that !!
 

Offline bud500

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Re: West Coast Baja 2016 Updates
« Reply #307 on: March 30, 2016, 02:00:37 pm »
can you explain how 2 riders that did the route the wrong way around are still in the results ?Funny that !!

That can't be right.  ???
Not a race in the world where that would stand.
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Offline Weedkiller - Adie

Re: West Coast Baja 2016 Updates
« Reply #308 on: March 30, 2016, 02:38:16 pm »
can you explain how 2 riders that did the route the wrong way around are still in the results ?Funny that !!

That can't be right.  ???
Not a race in the world where that would stand.

I can not comment on anything other than they were in the 'Lite' GPS class and apparently that can happen.  They only did the Mountain loop in reverse.  The interesting thing is that they actually did it in the more technical direction I was told.

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Offline SteveD

Re: West Coast Baja 2016 Updates
« Reply #309 on: March 30, 2016, 02:43:57 pm »
I've always thought that speeding penalties should be a hefty part of the navigation and rightly so - It's a tough thing to do to have the discipline not to speed and to sit right on the edge for any length of time. But I am curious as to why a stop penalty is 10 minutes and 2 speeding is only 33 seconds as in G Mortons case? Shouldn't it be the other way around?

Fair enough.
The algorithm for penalising speeding was new for this event. We compute the time saved by speeding, multiply that by a factor, and apply the result as a penalty. The reasoning behind that a rider entering a speeding zone too fast, but immediately slowing down, would be penalised a small time, whereas a rider that stayed at high speed through the zone would be penalised more heavily.
We ran lots and lots and lots of test data through the system to check the algorithm, and it works. I was suprised how small the resultant penalties were.
The count is then the number of transgressions, but each transgression can result in a penalty as low as a few seconds.
 

Offline SteveD

Re: West Coast Baja 2016 Updates
« Reply #310 on: March 30, 2016, 02:48:21 pm »
I guess rules are rules and talking about the other way around , can you explain how 2 riders that did the route the wrong way around are still in the results ?Funny that !!

Each of those (four) riders was penalised 30 minutes.
They were all lite riders, so it would have been pretty difficult to see which was the right way when the track split. However, they continued after they found out they were wrong, hense the penalty.
It cost one of them a free Amageza entry.
 

Offline Gavin

Re: West Coast Baja 2016 Updates
« Reply #311 on: March 30, 2016, 03:11:57 pm »
Be it as it may , I think it will cost Amageza a few  entries too .
 

Offline Buff

Re: West Coast Baja 2016 Updates
« Reply #312 on: March 30, 2016, 03:14:45 pm »
I guess rules are rules and talking about the other way around , can you explain how 2 riders that did the route the wrong way around are still in the results ?Funny that !!

Each of those (four) riders was penalised 30 minutes.
They were all lite riders, so it would have been pretty difficult to see which was the right way when the track split. However, they continued after they found out they were wrong, hense the penalty.
It cost one of them a free Amageza entry.

Said rider could also have been a total twatwaffle about the issue because it wasn't only his/their fault but instead he's still singing the races praises and recons it's one of the best routes ever. I think it says a lot about his character.
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Offline Weedkiller - Adie

Re: West Coast Baja 2016 Updates
« Reply #313 on: March 30, 2016, 03:42:27 pm »
Be it as it may , I think it will cost Amageza a few  entries too .

I doubt that as Amageza do not have a 'Lite- GPS only' class, only roadbooks.

BUT, I must say those three (?) musketeers 'was hoogs de moer in' at the DSP. Me thinks you could light a match just holding it close to the helmet. >:D

Again, the general feeling (and appreciation) for the effort to include the Lite class was positive. 

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Offline GJ

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Re: West Coast Baja 2016 Updates
« Reply #314 on: March 30, 2016, 04:03:16 pm »
 :biggrin:
« Last Edit: March 30, 2016, 07:47:12 pm by GJ »
 

Offline AlexRG

Re: West Coast Baja 2016 Updates
« Reply #315 on: March 30, 2016, 06:45:18 pm »
Final results have been posted, in high res detail, per category, per day as requested.
Not much changed, but a few people with GPS issues should be happier now.

http://www.amageza.com/#!blank-1/odxej

Hi Steve,

Should the quads and side x side not be separate? We did not compete against them.

There's at least two quads in the Restricted Rallye class that should not be mingled with the bikes, and a side x side in the Open Rallye class?

The 200 and 300 race numbers. They can be in the overall results but not mingled with the bike specific results.

Alex
« Last Edit: March 30, 2016, 07:12:20 pm by AlexRG »
 

Offline BlueBull2007

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Re: West Coast Baja 2016 Updates
« Reply #316 on: March 30, 2016, 07:28:42 pm »
There are some sensitive guys here, hey? ;D

can you explain how 2 riders that did the route the wrong way around are still in the results ?Funny that !!

That can't be right.  ???
Not a race in the world where that would stand.

Actually stranger things have happened in the Dakar where a lot more is at stake - like the $100k needed to get there in the first place. The ORGA made a decision, where they admit they were partly responsible in that no one considered some guys would see the wrong WP first. Its not a democracy. Thats what you signed in the indemnity.

I do think that maybe the speeding penalties were a bit light. Nothing worse than having some guy come past you in a speed control zone and get away with a small penalty while you lose precious time strictly observing the DZ´s.

Wel,ek gaan nou 2keer dink voor ek amageza ry >:(

Ag kom moenie word die moer in nie chjom  :3some: I need my two riding partners at the Amageza. :deal:

You were not DQ'd which is what I thought was going to happen. I'm betting if you had ridden with with road book (like you should have), I'm sure you would have gone the right way?

:peepwall:


Anyway, I think if anything these kind of issues is what makes rally raid harder than a typical offroad. There is always the unknown knowns to put a spanner in the works ;D
« Last Edit: March 30, 2016, 07:30:18 pm by BlueBull2007 »
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Offline markdiver

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Re: West Coast Baja 2016 Updates
« Reply #317 on: March 30, 2016, 07:39:51 pm »
I've always thought that speeding penalties should be a hefty part of the navigation and rightly so - It's a tough thing to do to have the discipline not to speed and to sit right on the edge for any length of time. But I am curious as to why a stop penalty is 10 minutes and 2 speeding is only 33 seconds as in G Mortons case? Shouldn't it be the other way around?

Fair enough.
The algorithm for penalising speeding was new for this event. We compute the time saved by speeding, multiply that by a factor, and apply the result as a penalty. The reasoning behind that a rider entering a speeding zone too fast, but immediately slowing down, would be penalised a small time, whereas a rider that stayed at high speed through the zone would be penalised more heavily.
We ran lots and lots and lots of test data through the system to check the algorithm, and it works. I was suprised how small the resultant penalties were.
The count is then the number of transgressions, but each transgression can result in a penalty as low as a few seconds.

I can't agree with this Steve my bud, in my opinion a speed zone starts at an allocated point and should carry a hefty penalty if contravened.  My reason for saying this is for 2 reasons.
1.  On any rally in the world, including Dakar, my point above, this is how it is, why do we want to change that?
2.  Secondly is what I have personal experience on in Amageza 2015.  Whilst racing for position, it took me at least 2 hours before I was able to pass a fellow competitor (he shall remain anonymous), due to dust and also as we were within each others same range of speed ability.  When however I did get past him, I only opened up a gap of about 100m (he was now eating my dust  ;D) when I came across a speed zone.  I diligently slowed down, but anonymous behind me did not, and so passed me again in the speed zone, and stayed just 50m ahead of me, which was if i can remember about 1.2km long.  When I excited the speed zone, I had to eat his dust again for a further hour, and this time was not able to pass due to dusty circumstances until we reached a road section again.
For me, having a 3sec penalty allotted to that person does not do justice. This type of rallying is what this is all about, you follow a RB and all rules, and if don't you get penalized you know you may be making up some places, and that's what keeps it interesting, keeping yourself disciplined, focused and at the same time racing.  
I guess the next question could also be raised, what is deemed to slow down immediately?  50m, 100m, 200m??  Some speed zones are only a couple hundred metres long.
If you really wanted or needed to catch/overtake someone ahead of you, then my tactic would now be to race hard into the speed zones and then only brake hard.  I can assure you this will make a difference.   IMHO of course.  
You time keepers have a tough enough job, why not just keep it simple and how it always has been?  Just saying buddy.   :thumleft:
« Last Edit: March 30, 2016, 07:45:16 pm by markdiver »
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Offline BlueBull2007

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Re: West Coast Baja 2016 Updates
« Reply #318 on: March 30, 2016, 07:47:39 pm »
That's my point as well.

But aside from that Mark, did the guy in front know you were trying to get past? Because the rule of rally is you let someone behind you go through. I have not read the rules but not doing so is considered unsporting in many other rallies and comes with a heavy penalty if someone makes a complaint.
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Offline Crossed-up

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Re: West Coast Baja 2016 Updates
« Reply #319 on: March 30, 2016, 08:19:09 pm »
Speed zones are there for a reason - usually safety or not to upset the locals or both. Considering the danger to the rider, the public, its property and the future of rallying in general, the penalties should be heavy.