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Author Topic: KLE 500 downshifting issues  (Read 1704 times)

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Offline Titanic

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KLE 500 downshifting issues
« on: May 13, 2016, 02:53:35 pm »
I've been struggling on a 2005 KLE500 with downshifting. (Project bike, I've not ridden it more than 5km yet)
All linkages working fine and nice and tight. Gear change lever moving freely.
I sometimes have to downshift up to 3 times before I get it into a lower gear.
From 3rd gear down, It is almost impossible to find a gear.
When up shifting, it feels like a Honda gearbox. (which is a very good thing, LOL)

So I'm planning to open up that cover at the sprocket to see what is going on. Maybe a broken spring or bent shaft or something.

Anything else I need to look at? Any known issues?

thanks

 

Offline Pullaway

Re: KLE 500 downshifting issues
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2016, 12:39:23 pm »
Gear lever run through the engine to the other side at the clutch. If the problem is not there, you'll have to look in the gearbox.
It's better to burn out than to fade away!
 

Offline Titanic

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Re: KLE 500 downshifting issues
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2016, 01:31:07 pm »
Actually the shaft only goes in about 70mm. I opened up under the front sprocket and all seems nice and straight and in place.
Rode the bike today and found at higher revs when down shifting it is very rough on the gears and loads of false neutrals. The only way to down shift is to do it under 3000 rpm and blipping.
Busy checking now to see if I'll have to split the motor. Might be able to get to the drum selector via sump.
Eish!!!!
 

Offline nickza

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Re: KLE 500 downshifting issues
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2016, 02:07:48 pm »
Mine has randomly started doing this too, no idea why yet. Might be clutch related as if you let out the clutch and bring it back in again it'll allow you to change down.
 

Offline lecap

Re: KLE 500 downshifting issues
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2016, 09:03:44 am »
Actually the shaft only goes in about 70mm. I opened up under the front sprocket and all seems nice and straight and in place.
Rode the bike today and found at higher revs when down shifting it is very rough on the gears and loads of false neutrals. The only way to down shift is to do it under 3000 rpm and blipping.
Busy checking now to see if I'll have to split the motor. Might be able to get to the drum selector via sump.
Eish!!!!

This sounds more like a clutch problem.

First of all drain the oil and fill with JASO MA2 spec oil. Castrol ActEvo 4T SAE10W40 is likely the cheapest (from Midas) and pretty much what you want.
Next check if the clutch is dragging. (It likely is). After warming up the engine ride a few metres, stop and pull the clutch whilst keeping the bike idling in 1st. Check if the bike starts to pull gently if you blip the throttle.
If it is dragging find out why.
You likely have checked the adjustment of the the clutch cable already? And the position in which the gearshift levers are connected to the shaft?

Disassemble the clutch. check how badly worn the clutch hub and clutch basket splines are.
Check if the steel plates are warped (they will usually show brown / blue discoloured spots if they are warped)
Check if there are any signs of corrosion on the steel plates. If yes, sanding won't help, replace.

Good luck!
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." (Red Adair)
 

Offline Titanic

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Re: KLE 500 downshifting issues
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2016, 10:16:19 am »
Actually the shaft only goes in about 70mm. I opened up under the front sprocket and all seems nice and straight and in place.
Rode the bike today and found at higher revs when down shifting it is very rough on the gears and loads of false neutrals. The only way to down shift is to do it under 3000 rpm and blipping.
Busy checking now to see if I'll have to split the motor. Might be able to get to the drum selector via sump.
Eish!!!!

This sounds more like a clutch problem.

First of all drain the oil and fill with JASO MA2 spec oil. Castrol ActEvo 4T SAE10W40 is likely the cheapest (from Midas) and pretty much what you want.
Next check if the clutch is dragging. (It likely is). After warming up the engine ride a few metres, stop and pull the clutch whilst keeping the bike idling in 1st. Check if the bike starts to pull gently if you blip the throttle.
If it is dragging find out why.
You likely have checked the adjustment of the the clutch cable already? And the position in which the gearshift levers are connected to the shaft?

Disassemble the clutch. check how badly worn the clutch hub and clutch basket splines are.
Check if the steel plates are warped (they will usually show brown / blue discoloured spots if they are warped)
Check if there are any signs of corrosion on the steel plates. If yes, sanding won't help, replace.

Good luck!

LeCap, I hope you are right about the clutch. Unfortunately, I  think this is more serious.
At 120 on the freeway there is no way of dropping a gear or two. I have to wait for the speed to come down to probably about 60 before there is anything. At 120 he lever moves without issue, but just nothing is "hooked".
I played around with the free play on the clutch cable. No noticeable difference.
 

Offline Titanic

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Re: KLE 500 downshifting issues
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2016, 09:57:45 pm »
Problem found. Badly worn drive gear selector fork.
If anyone has parts available, please pm me.
I wonder what would have caused it? Abuse? Bad oil or too little oil?
 

Offline lecap

Re: KLE 500 downshifting issues
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2016, 11:45:51 am »
Possible causes:
Riding with the foot on the gear shift lever.
The selector fork was bent as a result of a crash (bike fell hard onto gear shift lever, unlikely).

I think poor oil quality or too little oil will thrash pretty much everything else in your engine before it wears out a selector fork.

When you replace the selector fork check the groove of the gear into which it engages.


I broke a 400 for spares a few years ago and sold the "leftovers" a while later as a lot but can not remember who bought the lot. There was a perfect condition complete gearbox both shafts, selector drum and forks.


If you can't find a second hand KLE box check if you can use a GPZ500 box. Chances are good it's identical (?)


It might be worthwhile to buy new parts too as long as you only need one fork and one gear. Should not be more than around R2,500 for both.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." (Red Adair)
 

Offline Titanic

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Re: KLE 500 downshifting issues
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2016, 08:18:35 am »
LeCap, I also think the damage is due to riding with a boot on the lever. Everything else in the motor still looks new and the other 2 smaller forks are in good condition. I went past DocKLR on Saturday. He has a KLE500 that he is breaking up for parts. Unfortunately, the selector fork in his motor looked even worse than mine. He put me in contact with a guy who specializes in motorcycle gearboxes and he will probably be able rebuild the fork. He also wants to look at the gear it works on since he thinks the problem might be related to the gear not staying in place and having to rely on the fork to keep it in place. All of this was theories and suggestions only, since he has not seen the parts.

But, I think I'm going to take a gamble on this one and only replace the worn fork. Second hand if I can find one, otherwise new. I've got a list of 20+ bikes using the same part.
This bike will be used by my wife and I doubt it will ever do more than 2000km a year. If the fork lasts 10K km, then it will be good for the next 5 years. The current fork lasted 37K km.


 

Offline lecap

Re: KLE 500 downshifting issues
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2016, 11:25:11 am »
In a horizontal split case it's fairly easy to check for bent selector forks:
Fit the selector drums and forks to the relevant crank case half.
Drop the gear shafts in.
Go through the gears one by one.

Check with your thinnest (0.05mm) feeler gauge for play between the worn side of the affected fork and the groove it engages. If there is no play the fork is bent.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." (Red Adair)
 

Offline Titanic

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Re: KLE 500 downshifting issues
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2016, 11:17:29 am »
Okay, I got this one sorted out.
Don't ask me what the exact problem was. I picked up a bucket full of parts from DocKLR and swapped everything out that I could without splitting the motor again.
3 gear change forks
gear change drum
shaft for gear change forks
various mechanics and springs under the cover under the sprocket.
Result: It downshifts now without any issues.

I'm very very happy.