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Offline Captain Obvious

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Farmers closing roads
« on: May 16, 2016, 08:43:26 am »
I spent the week end riding in the area between Willowmore, Aberdeen and Steytlerville. On two occassions I found locked gates on what are, according to me, proclaimed roads.

In both instances I popped the lock open, and closed the gate behind me. The one farmer approached me and we got into an argument about this. When I assked him who had given him authority to close the road he had no answer.

I would like to know where one can verify if a road is still proclaimed, and if it is and a farmer has locked the gate, what action can be taken.

The farmers are starting to get to me, and I would like to know if you could lay a charge at the local SAPS if they lock a gate on a public road.

Any and all opinions welcome.
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Offline TheBear

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Re: Farmers closing roads
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2016, 08:48:19 am »
Think about the other side of the coin.  Gates left open.  On many farms this can and have led to expensive damage.  I know my uncle locks gates these days, because of damaged suffered due to a gate left open.

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Offline ChrisL - DUSTRIDERS

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Re: Farmers closing roads
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2016, 08:53:04 am »
Stocktheft on quite roads. Farmers lock gates to block escape routes.
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Offline Kortbroek

Re: Farmers closing roads
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2016, 09:15:41 am »
Stocktheft on quite roads. Farmers lock gates to block escape routes.


Also for general security. If a seldom used backroad has controlled access (gate/lock) then farmers can easily notice out of place people or vehicles. Usually however people apply for sections of public roads to get closed/controlled access and there are instances where access may be legally controlled on a public road.
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Re: Farmers closing roads
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2016, 09:19:43 am »
With the Farm Murders and stock theft, I agree with farmers to lock a gate if they can.

Bummer for us, but yeah, that is life  :'(

Why leave a gate unlock for 7 days a week only for a bike to pass there on a Saterday/Sunday?
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Offline Sláinte Mhaith

Re: Farmers closing roads
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2016, 09:28:19 am »
I would like to know where one can verify if a road is still proclaimed, and if it is and a farmer has locked the gate, what action can be taken.
The farmers are starting to get to me, and I would like to know if you could lay a charge at the local SAPS if they lock a gate on a public road.
Any and all opinions welcome.

Also hate it when people think they have the right to close/control a public road.  Maybe the land surveyor maps can be of assistance?

The farmers I know with public roads crossing their land have fencing on either side of the road to keep people off their land.

If there is a locked gate over the road then probably very few people use it. The chances is probably good that it is not a public road but rather a servitude road.
If you don't know the details of the servitude on a road then chances are good you are not one of the people allowed to use the servitude.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2016, 12:24:08 pm by Sláinte Mhaith »
 

Offline Kortbroek

Re: Farmers closing roads
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2016, 09:54:48 am »

The farmers are starting to get to me, and I would like to know if you could lay a charge at the local SAPS if they lock a gate on a public road.

Remember you pass through there once or twice in your life, the farmers live there every day. Think of it like the neighborhood watches and booms people use in cities for security.

A big problem here is that Google Earth and most GPS maps include all roads/tracks without info on whether it is a proclaimed public road or not and often people find themselves trespassing unwittingly because of this.
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Offline HB 9

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Re: Farmers closing roads
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2016, 10:56:06 am »
With the Farm Murders and stock theft, I agree with farmers to lock a gate if they can.

Bummer for us, but yeah, that is life  :'(

Why leave a gate unlock for 7 days a week only for a bike to pass there on a Saterday/Sunday?

Agree 100%.

I am very sure there are many open roads that you can ride  :deal:
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Offline Kortbroek

Re: Farmers closing roads
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2016, 11:07:24 am »
I spent the week end riding in the area between Willowmore, Aberdeen and Steytlerville. On two occassions I found locked gates on what are, according to me, proclaimed roads.


I know around Aberdeen a lot of the farms are part of the Camdeboo Conservancy which allows farmers to legally control access on many of the roads.
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Offline TheBear

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Re: Farmers closing roads
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2016, 11:08:39 am »
Did you know that if Mr A comes down the road and hits Mr. B's cow who is dawdling across the road, Mr B is responsible even if Mr. C left the gate open?
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Re: Farmers closing roads
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2016, 11:11:08 am »
I would like to know where one can verify if a road is still proclaimed, and if it is and a farmer has locked the gate, what action can be taken.
The farmers are starting to get to me, and I would like to know if you could lay a charge at the local SAPS if they lock a gate on a public road.
Any and all opinions welcome.

Also hate it when people think they have the right to close/control a public road.  Maybe the land surveyor maps can be of assistance?

The farmer I know with public roads crossing their land have fencing on either side of the road to keep people off their land.



Not in the Eastern Cape.
Here you get a public road that havent seen a car in years.
The road goes through the farmers land with no fencing either side. Twee spoor paadtjie.
Leave the gate open and all his livestock wonders off.
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Offline Bie

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Re: Farmers closing roads
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2016, 11:51:52 am »
I can understand the frustration of getting to a locked gate, but I also have the shoe on the other foot. In many cases you have small, tweespoor "proclaimed" roads that are only used by one or two farmers and those up to mischief, plus the odd biker who wants to ride that specific road for some or other reason. In most cases it is in a desolated area, far from the farmer's house, so no control over who rides through there nor what they do while there. See it as a walkway that used to go though your backyard, that is not used anymore, but was never deproclaimed. Will you lock it or not?

I have three locked gates under similar circumstances leading to and from one of my farms which is uninhabited. It is an extensive livestock farm and I go there once or twice a week and it has happened before that I get there and find the gate wide open. Someone went through there and never even bothered to close the gate, allowing livestock to pass through for almost a week until I got there again. Now I lock all the unused entrances. You must remember that many years ago farms were much smaller and all portions had to have an access road. Today many of these portions are consolidated by one owner again, so why should anyone else have access there? Legally I can do nothing if you break the lock, but know full well it will be replaced by a thicker chain and stronger lock if you do. You decide for yourself what should weigh the heaviest in this case, my right to protect my property, livelihood and safety or your right to use a basically unused road that is not even maintained by the authorities anymore for recreation. PS, remember you break locks at your own risk, so rather don't do it if you are not strong or fast.  ;)
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Offline Captain Obvious

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Re: Farmers closing roads
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2016, 12:14:26 pm »
The roads in question were on the surveyor generals maps and are not a little tweespoor. These are graded wide roads with concrete culverts and new road signs, so someone is maintaining them.

As to needing to be strong and fast I would caution against the use of violence or firearms. The situation could quickly escalate and I am sure some guys who ride are also "armed and dangerous".
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Offline Bie

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Re: Farmers closing roads
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2016, 12:23:03 pm »
You obviously rate your right to recreation higher than the right of someone else to protect his property. Put up a map so that we can see which roads you refer to. I cannot say what the reason for the locked gates on well maintained roads might be, but I can tell you that there was a recent farm murder in Aberdeen area and had that farmer locked his gates he would probably still be alive today. I know of another farmer close to Glenconnor who had his gates left open on numerous occasions, at least once by bikers, then last week he had solar panels, pumps, regulators and batteries stolen by people using said roads. Police pull up their shoulders, now the gates are locked.

Warning stays applicable.
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Offline Kortbroek

Re: Farmers closing roads
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2016, 12:24:40 pm »
The roads in question were on the surveyor generals maps and are not a little tweespoor. These are graded wide roads with concrete culverts and new road signs, so someone is maintaining them.

Again, see what I said below

I spent the week end riding in the area between Willowmore, Aberdeen and Steytlerville. On two occassions I found locked gates on what are, according to me, proclaimed roads.


I know around Aberdeen a lot of the farms are part of the Camdeboo Conservancy which allows farmers to legally control access on many of the roads.

This is becoming more common both for conservation but also for the improved security.
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Offline Dawid S

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Re: Farmers closing roads
« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2016, 12:27:30 pm »
Here is an example of one guy who believe he has all the right and everyone has none.
As a farmer I say A hole!
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Offline ChrisL - DUSTRIDERS

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Re: Farmers closing roads
« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2016, 12:29:22 pm »
I think we should stop more at farm houses and speak to the farmers. Find out what can be ridden and what not.
After all who are the people that normally help us out when we have a fall or our bikes break down? The farmers and they do so always with a smile. We should try and keep the relationship friendly. :thumleft:
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Offline Captain Obvious

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Re: Farmers closing roads
« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2016, 12:37:21 pm »
Bie

I will download the GPS tracks when I get a chance. Perhaps they are part of a conservancy, however there were no visible conservancy signs as is the case in the Baviaans area.

As to recreation over security, that is not my point. I appreciate the danger that farmers live with on a daily basis, and am just as saddened by the farm murders.

However, if you knowingly break the law by locking a gate on a proclaimed road at least have the decency to put up a sign at the entrance to the road informing passing strangers of the closure, saving me doing a loop of 100kms needlessly and possibly running out of fuel in the process.

Lastly if a landowner is going assault me for being on a proclaimed road which has been illegally closed, don't be surprised if I defend myself with the maximum force that is legally justifiable.
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Offline Sandban(g)k

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Re: Farmers closing roads
« Reply #18 on: May 16, 2016, 12:47:33 pm »
Kaptein, obviously is jy een van daai.

I agree with all the other guys, especially Bie tried to explain the other side of the coin.

What if you have an i cident along that road? Will that farmer be the one to help/save/phone your loved ones and ambulance? The same guy whose right to protect his life and property you cant respect?

Why didnt you go to a farmhouse close by and asked why the gates are locked and whetherthey can open it for you?

And the trick question: after you broke the locks, did you leave the gates open?
 

Online dirtyXT

Re: Farmers closing roads
« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2016, 12:50:37 pm »
 :sip: interesting debate. indeed knowledge/information is the only thing here apparently wont end up in a shoot out. lets try that.  :ricky:

i always close gates behind me, its the 1%rs that stuff it up for the rest and well locked gates, depends on how many bullet holes and old locks you can see in the immediate area that draws my concern.  :deal: :imaposer: :peepwall: i wouldn't break a gate that leads to a building or homestead but may consider it if its obvious. and no one able to advise on an alternative route. farmers in my experience are well worth chatting to. before you break a lock at least.  :pot:
« Last Edit: May 16, 2016, 12:52:35 pm by dirtyXT »
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