Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register

Author Topic: The Rockfox Amageza buggy project  (Read 16053 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Aquatic

  • Race Dog
  • ***
  • Bike: BMW F650GS / Dakar
    Location: Australia
  • Posts: 1,903
  • Thanked: 1 times
  • Sunshine Coast, Queensland, Australia
    • Ratel Engineering Design
Re: The Rockfox Amageza buggy project
« Reply #20 on: July 12, 2016, 05:42:35 am »
Adie - have a look at this site for buggy plans:
http://badlandbuggy.com/product/megalodon/


Also look up sidewinder buggies in western aus. You can buy just plans all the way to a complete buggy. And they have a 2 seater

http://www.theedgeproducts.com/Categories/The_X2
The conundrum that is life...
You have to be absolutely smashed to have the guts to attempt it,
But perfectly sober to achieve any success!
 

Offline Weedkiller - Adie

Re: The Rockfox Amageza buggy project
« Reply #21 on: July 12, 2016, 12:20:26 pm »
@ BatmanGS
Thanks for the info. We are actually evaluating the merits of locally manufacturing a SCORE 'PRO UTV NA' / FIA T3 Light vehicle.  One of OUR criteria is that the vehicle must be road legal as well. These two points alone put most of the buggies out there. I might be wrong but this class (T3 Light) is non existent in SA. In fact most buggies out there are actually 'Sandmasters' of some sort.  T3 was originally brought in FIA regs to make Dakar more cost effective.

Adie
Laat ons Stof maak.
 

Offline BlueBull2007

  • Caribbean
  • Global Moderator
  • Bachelor Dog
  • ***
  • Bike: AJS (all models)
    Location: Other
  • Posts: 10,557
  • Thanked: 521 times
Re: The Rockfox Amageza buggy project
« Reply #22 on: July 13, 2016, 07:47:20 pm »
All I can say is that you are an absolute legend Adie. :thumleft: :salut:

Loving this thread and the build. I hope you can warn us somehow when you come up behind us on the rally! Would not like to have that thing come over the top of me :laughing7:

Fully agree with your comments on the Coronel buggie. They had a lot of problems with those buggies as well.
The radiator issue is something to still think about, even with the lower temperature setting.
Rally nut. What could possibly go wrong?
Living the Rally Dream - Ride Report
Current bike: KTM 350 EXC   Previous bikes:  2010 WR450F, 2006 KTM450EXC,KTM 450RR, BMW800GS, KTM450EXC, BMW650 GS, BMW650 Dakar, and Honda XR250
 

Offline 1ougat

  • The Commodore !!!
  • Race Dog
  • ***
  • Bike: BMW R1200GS HP2
    Location: Western Cape
  • Posts: 4,390
  • Thanked: 70 times
  • The Commodore
Re: The Rockfox Amageza buggy project
« Reply #23 on: July 13, 2016, 08:10:13 pm »
 :sip:

Let see where this rabbit hole goes   :biggrin:
Make mine a Boxer with a shaft!!!!
2006 R1200 HP2 !!!! - La Poderosa - "The Mighty One"
1965 R50/2
1996 R80 GS PD Classic
2010 1200 GS 1975 Suzuki AC50
 

Offline White Rhino

  • Race Dog
  • ***
  • Bike: BMW R1200GS
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 3,927
  • Thanked: 4 times
  • Save the White Rhino
Re: The Rockfox Amageza buggy project
« Reply #24 on: July 14, 2016, 12:24:43 am »
I'm going along - looks very interesting :thumleft:
I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me than a full frontal lobotomy
Nothing clears the head like a throttle twisted and the fresh air on the tip of the nose

Beta 300RR, KTM500, KTM990 Adv, HPN635, 1200GS LC
 

Offline zetman

  • Grondpad Alie pad
  • Race Dog
  • ***
  • Bike: Yamaha XT660
    Location: Free State
  • Posts: 1,956
  • Thanked: 13 times
  • Plak n Palm...
Re: The Rockfox Amageza buggy project
« Reply #25 on: July 14, 2016, 08:48:30 am »
 :ricky:
Hou die Tyres op die Grondpad...
 

Offline brains

  • Pack Dog
  • **
  • Bike: Yamaha XT 660 Z
    Location: Kwazulu Natal
  • Posts: 87
Re: The Rockfox Amageza buggy project
« Reply #26 on: July 18, 2016, 05:38:39 pm »
I built the ST2 from Badland buggy a few years back. Good luck, am following!
 

Offline Africa_Sam

Re: The Rockfox Amageza buggy project
« Reply #27 on: July 19, 2016, 08:25:20 am »
 

Offline Weedkiller - Adie

Re: The Rockfox Amageza buggy project
« Reply #28 on: August 13, 2016, 10:43:32 pm »
Ok, some update.

Every time I think I can start the project I must work for money  >:D

We did some testing with JaJa to get a reference.  A few things came to light that we will defenatily look at. Mainly suspension and cockpit. Michelle went to Stellenbosch with it the other day BUT BLIKSEM, that hing is heavy on juice. Se only got 5km/l (no typo !!)

In the meantime I started the planning of the new frame and suspension. 

Our basic design criteria:
Keep the basic look of the car where possible. We will not use JaJa but design and built the car from ground up. (JaJa might get an Engine transplant to be more reliable.)
Use 14" Maxxis tyres all round.
Go 2 wheel drive only.
Double A frame suspension all round.
Use the same shocks and spring rates all round. ( This will be a big challenge to balance the light front with the heavy back.)
Do 'proper' suspension design to minimize bump steer, Ackerman deviation, squat and diving under braking.
Use proper car suspension parts like ball joints etc etc.

After I refreshed my memory again w.r.t. suspension design I started to draw lines.  Please note, I know NOTHING about offroad racing so will apply a fair amount of 'basic principles'.

The pics below:
1. Frame Mock-up. This exercise was to see if we can get a 'regulation' frame to suit JaJa's Plastics.
2. Suspension in Bottom out position.
3. Suspension max height position.
4. Cad detail with suspension in 'normal' riding position.

We can now start the frame design as the basic swivel points of the suspension is defined.  Provision for suspension alterations will be available.
Currently we used the following criteria.
350mm Ground clearance.
300mm suspension travel.
3 Camber at no load.
1.5 Camber at normal ride height.
6.6 Camber at bottom out. (this is to try and optimize handling for body roll during cornering)

Bump steer is limited to 3mm rod travel over the full suspension travel.

Frame design to follow soon.

Adie
Laat ons Stof maak.
 

Offline Scrat

  • Race Dog
  • ***
  • Bike: Husqvarna (all models)
    Location: Western Cape
  • Posts: 1,607
  • Thanked: 5 times
Re: The Rockfox Amageza buggy project
« Reply #29 on: August 13, 2016, 11:40:26 pm »
Excellent!!

This is going to be a super project!
Good luck with all the planning!
Call us Crazy!! But what an ADVENTURE!!
 

Offline BlueBull2007

  • Caribbean
  • Global Moderator
  • Bachelor Dog
  • ***
  • Bike: AJS (all models)
    Location: Other
  • Posts: 10,557
  • Thanked: 521 times
Re: The Rockfox Amageza buggy project
« Reply #30 on: August 14, 2016, 10:29:57 am »
This is great stuff, Adie. I am no expert but something does not look right on the back two tubes to the rear

Are you using the frame layout/design from existing car models as a basis?
« Last Edit: August 14, 2016, 11:39:43 am by BlueBull2007 »
Rally nut. What could possibly go wrong?
Living the Rally Dream - Ride Report
Current bike: KTM 350 EXC   Previous bikes:  2010 WR450F, 2006 KTM450EXC,KTM 450RR, BMW800GS, KTM450EXC, BMW650 GS, BMW650 Dakar, and Honda XR250
 

Offline Weedkiller - Adie

Re: The Rockfox Amageza buggy project
« Reply #31 on: August 14, 2016, 12:17:02 pm »
This is great stuff, Adie. I am no expert but something does not look right on the back two tubes to the rear

Are you using the frame layout/design from existing car models as a basis?


1. The horizontal ones or the one from the rollbar to the back ?

2. No, it is a new design from ground up.  One of our aims is to make the car 'look good' AND fit in the FIA/SCORE regulations.  Like said before, there are many plans designs etc out there but none that meet our criteria.  One of the big issues is actually the 'creative limitation' of the FIA regs where everything is controlled (even the height of the seat base to the floor and then the floor to ......)  We will therefore be 100% SCORE legal but might have a few FIA 'deviations' on non critical points like seat height. We will however use FIA where feasable.

Extract from FIA
**
Fuel lines (except the connections to the injectors and the cooling radiator on the circuit returning to the tank) must have a minimum burst  pressure  of  70  bars  (1000  psi)  at  the  minimum  operating temperature of 135C (250F).
**
Interesting FIA does not allow CromeMoly whereas SCORE does.

It is actually interesting to note that ASO (Dakar) also refer to SCORE regulations which are much more 'open'. 

Adie
Laat ons Stof maak.
 

Offline Scooterbike

  • Race Dog
  • ***
  • Bike: Honda CRF-1000L Africa Twin
    Location: Western Cape
  • Posts: 1,304
  • Thanked: 4 times
  • .
Re: The Rockfox Amageza buggy project
« Reply #32 on: August 14, 2016, 02:03:38 pm »
 :sip:
AT (rooi moses); Husky 501, Husky 250
 

Offline Aquatic

  • Race Dog
  • ***
  • Bike: BMW F650GS / Dakar
    Location: Australia
  • Posts: 1,903
  • Thanked: 1 times
  • Sunshine Coast, Queensland, Australia
    • Ratel Engineering Design
Re: The Rockfox Amageza buggy project
« Reply #33 on: August 15, 2016, 01:43:21 pm »
This is great stuff, Adie. I am no expert but something does not look right on the back two tubes to the rear

Are you using the frame layout/design from existing car models as a basis?


1. The horizontal ones or the one from the rollbar to the back ?

2. No, it is a new design from ground up.  One of our aims is to make the car 'look good' AND fit in the FIA/SCORE regulations.  Like said before, there are many plans designs etc out there but none that meet our criteria.  One of the big issues is actually the 'creative limitation' of the FIA regs where everything is controlled (even the height of the seat base to the floor and then the floor to ......)  We will therefore be 100% SCORE legal but might have a few FIA 'deviations' on non critical points like seat height. We will however use FIA where feasable.

Extract from FIA
**
Fuel lines (except the connections to the injectors and the cooling radiator on the circuit returning to the tank) must have a minimum burst  pressure  of  70  bars  (1000  psi)  at  the  minimum  operating temperature of 135C (250F).
**
Interesting FIA does not allow CromeMoly whereas SCORE does.

It is actually interesting to note that ASO (Dakar) also refer to SCORE regulations which are much more 'open'. 

Adie


No chromoly? WTF?
The conundrum that is life...
You have to be absolutely smashed to have the guts to attempt it,
But perfectly sober to achieve any success!
 

Offline Weedkiller - Adie

Re: The Rockfox Amageza buggy project
« Reply #34 on: September 04, 2016, 08:33:19 pm »
Back from a hectic (halfway through) project.

We stripped the motor out of the ATOS that will be used as new drivetrain.  As mentioned before we will go 2 wheel drive only and limited slip diff/lockable option.

Ahe ATOS is from SMD. 120 000km running order drivetrain.  Car must have rolled as only one window not broken.  No 'straight' body panel remained.  If I had to buy a Motor, Grarbox, CV's, Driveshafts, radiator, loom etc etc it would cost probably 30% more.  We will take the parts I do not need to the scrap steel merchants. (I have no desire to start a scrapyard.) (Het alreeds te veel rommel op die plot)

Ok, motor out but still on subframe.  This will make measurements with respect to mounting points etc etc easier.  We will design a new subframe that use as much as possible of the existing frame.  The motor must be 'lifted out' with minimum work.  We will design new trailing arms to match the ATOS wheel hubs. (We will sell the existing motor, gearbox complete with side shafts and hubs.)  The shockabsorber mounting points will also be flexible for suspension tuning.

We are considering an aftermarket engine management system.  Diktator or Spitronics.  I have no experience with either of the two products so the choice will be based on price and ease of installation.  >:(

We will strip the original motor and drive train out this week. Would like to have the car driving again in 3 weeks.

Adie
Laat ons Stof maak.
 

Offline seankriel

  • Pack Dog
  • **
  • Bike: NER-A-CAR
    Location: Western Cape
  • Posts: 428
  • Thanked: 7 times
  • I'm Living it!
Re: The Rockfox Amageza buggy project
« Reply #35 on: September 05, 2016, 06:49:43 am »
Addie

Is that a automatic or manual?

I was considering changing my Hajadu to a Atos automatic as adding the clutch pedal system to the very small foot space are would be a bit mad?

Can I came have a look please?

Sean - Amageza Start marshal!
It's not what you know and it's not who you know. It's what you know about who you know.
 

Offline Weedkiller - Adie

Re: The Rockfox Amageza buggy project
« Reply #36 on: September 05, 2016, 07:22:21 am »
Addie

Is that a automatic or manual?

I was considering changing my Hajadu to a Atos automatic as adding the clutch pedal system to the very small foot space are would be a bit mad?

Can I came have a look please?

Sean - Amageza Start marshal!

No it is a manual.  Depending on how you look at it the space will not be a problem.  We had all the pedals for the Formula VEE in less than 350 x 350mm.  The gearchange will be via standard cables as the 'link' is now 'behind' the engine.

Feel free to contact me for a visit.  Oppie Plotte in Joostenberg.  Kyk op rockfox.co.za vir kontak nommers en padaanwysings.

Adie
Laat ons Stof maak.
 

Offline BlueBull2007

  • Caribbean
  • Global Moderator
  • Bachelor Dog
  • ***
  • Bike: AJS (all models)
    Location: Other
  • Posts: 10,557
  • Thanked: 521 times
Re: The Rockfox Amageza buggy project
« Reply #37 on: September 05, 2016, 08:22:22 am »
Keep it coming Adie, Im fascinated and inspired by your project! :thumleft:

To answer your earlier question, I was referring to the two bars in the bottom corners of the vehicle in this pic.

*Disclaimer: I know nothing about buggies, so a totally noob question. ::)






Rally nut. What could possibly go wrong?
Living the Rally Dream - Ride Report
Current bike: KTM 350 EXC   Previous bikes:  2010 WR450F, 2006 KTM450EXC,KTM 450RR, BMW800GS, KTM450EXC, BMW650 GS, BMW650 Dakar, and Honda XR250
 

Offline I&horse

  • You look like a
  • Race Dog
  • ***
  • Bike: KTM 950 Adventure
    Location: Western Cape
  • Posts: 3,798
  • Thanked: 46 times
  • was Andy 950
Re: The Rockfox Amageza buggy project
« Reply #38 on: September 05, 2016, 08:47:45 am »
Sub
Silence is golden...... Duct tape is silver

Everything works with smoke, if the smoke escapes, it stops working.
 

Offline Mooch

Re: The Rockfox Amageza buggy project
« Reply #39 on: September 05, 2016, 10:13:01 am »
sub
If in doubt, flat out.