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Offline XRRX

Re: CRF250 Rally/DS
« Reply #80 on: August 31, 2017, 03:44:20 pm »
At a quick glance through the mags this is what we have.

Honda CRF250Rally R84 999
on special Honda NC750 R89 999 from Cayenne (latest Ridefast mag)

What else can you get at that approx price point..

Royal Enfield R65 000
KTM Duke 390 R63 999
Kawasaki ER650N R88 995
Honda CRF250L R79 999
Ducati Sixty2 R98 900
Benelli Cafe 600 R75 990 (1130 Trek only R99 990)

It's a lot of money for a 250 but there's not much out there at the price point so they probably have a winner.

Second hand bikes at the price is another story
Think you forgot the new Kawasaki 300 Versys at R75000
Seems to tick many boxes

Maybe the Kawa is good-ish - don't know ...
What I do know is it sure is fugly and brought in at the moment by the evergreen KMSA ...  :peepwall:
No thanks!!
 

Offline Pistonpete

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Re: CRF250 Rally/DS
« Reply #81 on: September 03, 2017, 08:31:09 am »
At a quick glance through the mags this is what we have.

Honda CRF250Rally R84 999
on special Honda NC750 R89 999 from Cayenne (latest Ridefast mag)

What else can you get at that approx price point..

Royal Enfield R65 000
KTM Duke 390 R63 999
Kawasaki ER650N R88 995
Honda CRF250L R79 999
Ducati Sixty2 R98 900
Benelli Cafe 600 R75 990 (1130 Trek only R99 990)

It's a lot of money for a 250 but there's not much out there at the price point so they probably have a winner.

Second hand bikes at the price is another story
Think you forgot the new Kawasaki 300 Versys at R75000
Seems to tick many boxes

Maybe the Kawa is good-ish - don't know ...
What I do know is it sure is fugly and brought in at the moment by the evergreen KMSA ...  :peepwall:
No thanks!!

Yip...forgot the least talked about bike as well...the ever present XT 250 at R59995
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Offline blauth

Re: CRF250 Rally/DS
« Reply #82 on: September 13, 2017, 03:44:41 pm »
So, any Wilddog have a Rally yet?

I pulled the trigger on the poor mans version, it's predecessor, the Honda 2011 XR250 Tornado. Great little bike and I'm enjoying the commute. Not missing the Transalp at all at this stage.

Can't wait for the KTM390 Adventure. If they keep the older KTM640 Adventure in mind when building this little bike, I think it will be great.

Offline 0012

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Re: CRF250 Rally/DS
« Reply #83 on: September 14, 2017, 07:26:25 am »
->    TransAlp 650 - sold
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Offline Constantinople

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Re: CRF250 Rally/DS
« Reply #84 on: September 14, 2017, 05:07:26 pm »
 

Offline blauth

Re: CRF250 Rally/DS
« Reply #85 on: September 14, 2017, 05:21:15 pm »
So, any Wilddog have a Rally yet?

Ping @Constantinople

Ek het 'n Rally ja, hoekom?  :biggrin:

Give us a bit of a review of what it's like to live with.

Any buyers remorse?   :pot:     it is a lot of money....

Offline dirtyXT

Re: CRF250 Rally/DS
« Reply #86 on: September 14, 2017, 06:39:21 pm »
been seeing this bike at the Honda centurion. looks incredible. didn't look too small either at first thought it was a 450. lighter = more fun.

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Offline Tommy Transalp

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Re: CRF250 Rally/DS
« Reply #87 on: September 14, 2017, 07:58:25 pm »
I was given the opportunity to ride The CRF250 Rally on the recent KZN Bash and was pleasantly surprised by this bike.

Upon delivery, the odo had 17km on the clock, so the engine was a tight as a Sharks arse in a power-dive, but loosened up after 200km a bit. Power delivery is very smooth almost throughout the rev range up to 10500 rpm. There is a pleasant surge at 6500rpm, but certainly not enough to scare you, or stretch your arms.... (it's only a 250).
Fuel consumption seemed good, but wasn't measured... I reckon around 35km/l.  Expect around 300 -350km range.
Personally I felt the bike could do with a little more power.... uncorking the exhaust and opening up the airbox would make a big difference IMHO. The European Emmissions rules are choking these machines! :deal:
 
Seat height and handlebar positioning is good, although for taller riders, I reckon some bar raisers will help. (I'm 1.83m tall, 86kg's).
Everything is of high quality workmanship, as it should be at the price, and no rattles whatsoever on stony/ gravelly roads were noticed.
I felt the footpegs could be a bit wider and the gear lever a bit longer, but that's all minor things, easily rectified.

The Rally handles like a dream!.... Suspension is plush, but not spongy, and at one stage I took my hands off the bars, riding at 110kph on loose, marble-like gravel, and the machine tracked straight..... On tar she handles well, and is beautifully "flickable". Personally I think Honda's got the handling right!  :thumleft:

Instruments were easy to read, and even the ABS works... I stomped on the rear brakes whilst ABS was activated, and got the distinct thump-thump sensation through the pedal. Deactivating the ABS on the instrument button only deactivates the rear brake, letting you be able to lock up for sliding through bends, etc. but front is permanently on, and I'm not brave enough to test the front on a new loan bike, so can't comment on that! :o  Being an old technology/school rider, I found the brakes to be perfectly matched for this machine.

Once run in, I feel the bike will happily cruise at 110-115kph all day. The engine is turning at around 75% of its rev-range at these speeds, and doesn't feel stressed. It's no high speed superbike, and highway overtaking should be done with caution, as the motor takes it's time to build up to higher speeds from 100kph... (it's only a 250 FFS!)

Overall, I'm impressed with this bike, bearing in mind that long tours will take a little longer at meander-speeds, but feel it will never disappoint newbies and riders who enjoy going anywhere at "sub-sonic" pace.
Personally I reckon a 400 -500cc mill in this bike would make the perfect mid-range adventure bike. (Hint-hint Honda) >:D :pot:

Would I buy one? ....Yes,..... but Please Honda... make it more affordable?

Have a look in the KZN bash 2017 RR.... there's a few pis of the bike there.  :thumleft:
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Offline Tommy Transalp

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Re: CRF250 Rally/DS
« Reply #88 on: September 14, 2017, 08:38:57 pm »
.
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But it's ok... they know me there!
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Offline Constantinople

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Re: CRF250 Rally/DS
« Reply #89 on: September 14, 2017, 08:55:04 pm »
Tommy T has it spot on. The bike is one well built machine. I took it up to Kaokoland and back. It was only my incompetance that ended in the repair bill I now have. However, that which broke was nothing which people faulted on this bike! The plastics are tough as nails, I crashed a lot in the deep sand and nothing broke. The one, fatigue induced, tipover on Van Zyls was a bit unfortunate, broke both right hand side indicators and my starter button off. This was purely due to rocks perfectly positioned to knock them off. Bashplate shrugged off many a rock and one inadvertent ramp over a bolder next to a deep sand 2 spoor. Suspension obviously bottomed on that. But only that. Remember to tune the rear preload all the way up.

This bike handles the rough really well. Suspension is really plush without being divey. Engine gets lively at the 6500+ rpm mark. These 250 engines does take quite a while to break in. Mine was well loosened through the countless high rpm sand starts!  :lol8: One fault though is the 120/80 rear wheel. It is like a cutting disk in deep sand... Coupled with the stock gearing it takes a while to get the sweet spot between spinning out in 1st and bogging down in second. Drop a tooth in front or gain a few on the back should solve this problem when the ride is going to be technical. This was done on many 250L overseas.

Hope this review helps! All the faults people pointed out were myth. The only thing that really bent that I am unhappy about is the rear toolbox mounting tab. This resulted in the tyre chowing through it. Bent it back but still not right, will need to take the story apart for a closer inspection. However, I think it only bent due to the insane amount of luggage we took along on the trip and hence the massive load on it when dropping the bike on its left.
 

Offline blauth

Re: CRF250 Rally/DS
« Reply #90 on: September 15, 2017, 11:21:18 am »
Tommy T has it spot on. The bike is one well built machine. I took it up to Kaokoland and back. It was only my incompetance that ended in the repair bill I now have. However, that which broke was nothing which people faulted on this bike! The plastics are tough as nails, I crashed a lot in the deep sand and nothing broke. The one, fatigue induced, tipover on Van Zyls was a bit unfortunate, broke both right hand side indicators and my starter button off. This was purely due to rocks perfectly positioned to knock them off. Bashplate shrugged off many a rock and one inadvertent ramp over a bolder next to a deep sand 2 spoor. Suspension obviously bottomed on that. But only that. Remember to tune the rear preload all the way up.

This bike handles the rough really well. Suspension is really plush without being divey. Engine gets lively at the 6500+ rpm mark. These 250 engines does take quite a while to break in. Mine was well loosened through the countless high rpm sand starts!  :lol8: One fault though is the 120/80 rear wheel. It is like a cutting disk in deep sand... Coupled with the stock gearing it takes a while to get the sweet spot between spinning out in 1st and bogging down in second. Drop a tooth in front or gain a few on the back should solve this problem when the ride is going to be technical. This was done on many 250L overseas.

Hope this review helps! All the faults people pointed out were myth. The only thing that really bent that I am unhappy about is the rear toolbox mounting tab. This resulted in the tyre chowing through it. Bent it back but still not right, will need to take the story apart for a closer inspection. However, I think it only bent due to the insane amount of luggage we took along on the trip and hence the massive load on it when dropping the bike on its left.

I don't think the 120 rear is a problem. Thing is, if you install rim locks and re-balance your wheels, then you can drop your tyre pressure down to 1 bar for the sand. That would help a whole lot. Just make sure you re-inflate the tyre when back on hard pack.

There is an oke called Minky (I think it was him) who has had a number of CRF250L and now a CRF250 Rally over on Adv rider and he fitted a CBX250 gearbox into his CRF250L (obviously has too much time and money on his hands). He said the gearing has a really short first on the Rally and L and a really tall top gear whereas the CBX gearing appeared to be more evenly spaced. From there he fitted a CBR300 engine and was very happy with that.

I find the gear ratio's quite close on my little 250 Tornado. The sprocket ratio is 13/38 and I have mine at 13/42 so it's quite nippy but top end is only about 130.....maxed out, comfortably cruising at about 107km/h. This engine isn't happy revving high though, you can feel, it's just reluctant. I suspect it's related to the CAM profile. Perhaps that's been updated on the Rally because it was more eager to rev than my little bike.

Post some ride reports on your Rally, I love the look of it.

Offline sidetrack

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Re: CRF250 Rally/DS
« Reply #91 on: September 15, 2017, 05:40:43 pm »
Tommy T has it spot on. The bike is one well built machine. I took it up to Kaokoland and back. It was only my incompetance that ended in the repair bill I now have. However, that which broke was nothing which people faulted on this bike! The plastics are tough as nails, I crashed a lot in the deep sand and nothing broke. The one, fatigue induced, tipover on Van Zyls was a bit unfortunate, broke both right hand side indicators and my starter button off. This was purely due to rocks perfectly positioned to knock them off. Bashplate shrugged off many a rock and one inadvertent ramp over a bolder next to a deep sand 2 spoor. Suspension obviously bottomed on that. But only that. Remember to tune the rear preload all the way up.

This bike handles the rough really well. Suspension is really plush without being divey. Engine gets lively at the 6500+ rpm mark. These 250 engines does take quite a while to break in. Mine was well loosened through the countless high rpm sand starts!  :lol8: One fault though is the 120/80 rear wheel. It is like a cutting disk in deep sand... Coupled with the stock gearing it takes a while to get the sweet spot between spinning out in 1st and bogging down in second. Drop a tooth in front or gain a few on the back should solve this problem when the ride is going to be technical. This was done on many 250L overseas.

Hope this review helps! All the faults people pointed out were myth. The only thing that really bent that I am unhappy about is the rear toolbox mounting tab. This resulted in the tyre chowing through it. Bent it back but still not right, will need to take the story apart for a closer inspection. However, I think it only bent due to the insane amount of luggage we took along on the trip and hence the massive load on it when dropping the bike on its left.

I don't think the 120 rear is a problem. Thing is, if you install rim locks and re-balance your wheels, then you can drop your tyre pressure down to 1 bar for the sand. That would help a whole lot. Just make sure you re-inflate the tyre when back on hard pack.

There is an oke called Minky (I think it was him) who has had a number of CRF250L and now a CRF250 Rally over on Adv rider and he fitted a CBX250 gearbox into his CRF250L (obviously has too much time and money on his hands). He said the gearing has a really short first on the Rally and L and a really tall top gear whereas the CBX gearing appeared to be more evenly spaced. From there he fitted a CBR300 engine and was very happy with that.

I find the gear ratio's quite close on my little 250 Tornado. The sprocket ratio is 13/38 and I have mine at 13/42 so it's quite nippy but top end is only about 130.....maxed out, comfortably cruising at about 107km/h. This engine isn't happy revving high though, you can feel, it's just reluctant. I suspect it's related to the CAM profile. Perhaps that's been updated on the Rally because it was more eager to rev than my little bike.

Post some ride reports on your Rally, I love the look of it.
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Offline sidetrack

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Re: CRF250 Rally/DS
« Reply #92 on: September 16, 2017, 07:01:13 pm »
Tommy T has it spot on. The bike is one well built machine. I took it up to Kaokoland and back. It was only my incompetance that ended in the repair bill I now have. However, that which broke was nothing which people faulted on this bike! The plastics are tough as nails, I crashed a lot in the deep sand and nothing broke. The one, fatigue induced, tipover on Van Zyls was a bit unfortunate, broke both right hand side indicators and my starter button off. This was purely due to rocks perfectly positioned to knock them off. Bashplate shrugged off many a rock and one inadvertent ramp over a bolder next to a deep sand 2 spoor. Suspension obviously bottomed on that. But only that. Remember to tune the rear preload all the way up.

This bike handles the rough really well. Suspension is really plush without being divey. Engine gets lively at the 6500+ rpm mark. These 250 engines does take quite a while to break in. Mine was well loosened through the countless high rpm sand starts!  :lol8: One fault though is the 120/80 rear wheel. It is like a cutting disk in deep sand... Coupled with the stock gearing it takes a while to get the sweet spot between spinning out in 1st and bogging down in second. Drop a tooth in front or gain a few on the back should solve this problem when the ride is going to be technical. This was done on many 250L overseas.

Hope this review helps! All the faults people pointed out were myth. The only thing that really bent that I am unhappy about is the rear toolbox mounting tab. This resulted in the tyre chowing through it. Bent it back but still not right, will need to take the story apart for a closer inspection. However, I think it only bent due to the insane amount of luggage we took along on the trip and hence the massive load on it when dropping the bike on its left.

I don't think the 120 rear is a problem. Thing is, if you install rim locks and re-balance your wheels, then you can drop your tyre pressure down to 1 bar for the sand. That would help a whole lot. Just make sure you re-inflate the tyre when back on hard pack.

There is an oke called Minky (I think it was him) who has had a number of CRF250L and now a CRF250 Rally over on Adv rider and he fitted a CBX250 gearbox into his CRF250L (obviously has too much time and money on his hands). He said the gearing has a really short first on the Rally and L and a really tall top gear whereas the CBX gearing appeared to be more evenly spaced. From there he fitted a CBR300 engine and was very happy with that.

I find the gear ratio's quite close on my little 250 Tornado. The sprocket ratio is 13/38 and I have mine at 13/42 so it's quite nippy but top end is only about 130.....maxed out, comfortably cruising at about 107km/h. This engine isn't happy revving high though, you can feel, it's just reluctant. I suspect it's related to the CAM profile. Perhaps that's been updated on the Rally because it was more eager to rev than my little bike.

Post some ride reports on your Rally, I love the look of it.
I watched his Dyno Youtube clip and he got 21rwhp after all the mods  :o Dont think it is worth it at all then. Just be happy with the 250 as is.
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Offline katana

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Re: CRF250 Rally/DS
« Reply #93 on: September 16, 2017, 09:22:15 pm »
Was there a link to the dyno vid?
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Re: CRF250 Rally/DS
« Reply #94 on: September 18, 2017, 08:50:46 am »
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Offline Intense

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Offline blauth

Re: CRF250 Rally/DS
« Reply #96 on: October 17, 2017, 08:57:09 am »
I think this is what it should have been in the first place from BMW however I can understand that to bring a bike  into the market at sub 70k, things like quality spoke wheels is somewhat of an accounting challenge.

This is what I have been saying, and what BMW fans seem to accept with difficulty. In today's market, you can only undercut an opponent by such big margins if you offer less in a product.

I looked at, rode, and thoroughly appreciated the Honda CRF250Rally, and you would only choose the GS over the Honda if you're severely cash-strapped, ignorant, or if BMW-Daddy bought
sonny a GS.

You get what you pay for.

!970's Yamaha DT's had 21" front wheels, BMW still does not grasp the benefits. :imaposer:

So then why is the CRF250 Rally not available with the 300R engine? I appreciate that in some markets, 250+ bikes have a license restriction. What's the reasoning behind the pasty 250 engine?

As for your comment: "and you would only choose the GS over the Honda if you're severely cash-strapped, ignorant, or if BMW-Daddy bought sonny a GS.".....ya well, I'm gonna take a flyer here and suggest you've never ridden the little BMW so from a comparison perspective, you're probably the ignoranus in this case......    :pot:

I've never ridden the little 310R so can't honestly comment but off the top of my head, I have the little XR250 Tornado that I commute daily on and I love the little bike but make no mistake, it's seriously borderline power wise. A headwind is a killer right there. Fuel consumption to performance ratio is bad. The best part of the little thing is the general ergonomics and suspension for off-road.  I suspect the Rally is much of the same. The only reason it makes sense is because it didn't cost much money...else it wouldn't make much sense at all.

I'm going to take another flyer here and say that despite the shortcomings as a HARDCORE adventure bike, it's more suitable than the Rally to at least 90% of their customers and sales figures will prove that. It's only a few of us okes that have an expectation that every adventure bike should be a Rally bike.

I'm also going to take an "ignorant flyer" here...
Comparing a XR250 Tornado to the 250 Rally is probably as ignorant as one can be!

Yes, you're right about one thing - the 310GS Will sell in hordes and droves!!!
70 odd K for a new BMW badge on the side of the tank will probably account for 90% of sales!
In SA we all chase displacement and/or badge before anything else - that's why the 250 Rally will never sell well - because it's mainly about quality and capability - and Not about poser value...

"Comparing a XR250 Tornado to the 250 Rally is probably as ignorant as one can be!" ....hit a nerve did that?     So, having ridden the Rally and owning the Tornado, I'm gonna do a few comparisons....granted from my supremely ignorant perspective but feel free to challenge me on where I err in my perspective.

CRF250 Rally vs Tornado
- Engine capacity: Same
- Reliability: Same same, both excellent.
- Fuel Range: Rally gets an extra 40km...maybe, so similar.
- Suspension performance: I'd put my money on the Tornado being better sprung (similar views between CRF250L and 250 Rally) but they have similar travel and on the most part probably similar performance.
- Engine performance: Rally slightly better but potentially offset by the power to weight.
- Wheels: Same
- Onroad: Rally better on open road because of fairing. Both have wide seats, compliant suspension, similar gearing, same shitty power.
- Offroad: Tornado....simple, it's lighter and better sprung.
- Service Interval: Rally is better being water cooled and all and having long service intervals. Air/Oil cooling of Tornado needs oil more often.
- Brakes: Rally hands down. The rear drum is sucky on the Tornado and with the advanced ABS on the Rally, it's a clear winner.
- Crash-ability: Tornado....less shit to break.
- Instrument cluster: Rally has a Tach and Tornado doesn't but the Tornado has stuff like multiple trip meters, trip timers, time count downs etc so ....pick your poison.
- What would I rather break down on in the middle of nowhere:  Tornado....I'm sure I don't have to explain why.
- Age difference: Tornado: released in 2001, CRF250Rally, released in 2017. That's only 16 years to release a technological marvel that is leaps and bounds ahead of it's predecessor.......but wait, IT's NOT!   It's the fairing equivalent of the same thing (or similar if you want to be pedantic) .....
- Price: relative value 2001 versus 2017. It's a difficult one to answer because of market forces so not gonna chirp too much. What is obvious though is that Honda's Rally is currently at least 20 - 30% more expensive than the few competitors in the market. So if you're really want to talk price, comparing it to alternative manufacturers offerings gives a better perspective because they's all facing the same challenges.


Reference: https://adventure-motorcycling.com/2015/03/25/honda-crf250l-vs-xr250-tornado/
Yeah....yeah, I know the CRF250L is not the Rally but the chassis (bar minor changes to suspension), engine, drive train etc are the same.


XRRX.....remind me why it's ignorant to compare these two bikes?


For the record, I think the Rally is great albeit hectically overpriced and I'm not for a second discrediting the Rally. Now on the other hand, we have a bunch of okes discrediting a bike that isn't even released yet. That makes no sense to me.....

 :lol8: :lol8:

Enjoy your Tornado, think I even have a performance/noise pipe somewhere for one if you are interested ... I once had a yellow & black one ...
... and pardon me, since I have no interest in taking this senseless little argument any further with some actual facts ...  8)

Sorry for the Highjack guys - but let's wait and see what the little GS is all about when we get the chance eventually to ride it ...


So I pulled this over from the G310 thread because I didn't want to continue with hijacking that thread.....

"Comparing a XR250 Tornado to the 250 Rally is probably as ignorant as one can be!"
....
"and pardon me, since I have no interest in taking this senseless little argument any further with some actual facts ..."    As you can see above, we've got some difference of opinion but I'd genuinely like to know what these facts are that make the CRF250 Rally and the Honda Tornado incomparable?
« Last Edit: October 17, 2017, 08:59:28 am by blauth »
 

Offline Constantinople

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Re: CRF250 Rally/DS
« Reply #97 on: October 17, 2017, 10:13:13 am »
Well, me, only having ridden the CRF 250 Rally through Kaokoland and back, and no experience of the Tornado say the following:

Engine wise - Well it seems it is the same engine that has been improved for the 250L and RLA (hence the reliability), however been choked down again by emission regulations. Tornado is only still selling in the "non-emission" regulated countries. The 250 L was Honda's revamp of the old and then got used in the Rally to push in a newish direction (small capacity "adventure" bikes :pot:). The only differences will be engine response. Considering EFI and new technology this should be better on the L and RLA. However, you did now and again get an old air-cooled that was quite responsive and sometimes even better than the EFI. But that is the exception.

Frame wise - Different, however still the same cradled engine setup. The L and RLA frame should be lighter and stronger considering how the pipe sections look like. Don't know if there is a handling difference, but a stiffer and lighter frame should be better (for certain applications).

Suspension - Larger diameter here will make the L & RLA better. Don't know if internals are different, I doubt it except for some fiddling with damping and the springs. I cannot agree on your assumption that the Tornado is better, especially since you have not ridden the rally on some proper off-road terrain. Also, the reviewer in that article loaded up the L much more than the Tornade, which he admits. Trust me, this twists the comparison! Luggage was 'n pein in die agterent in Kaokoland. My experience compared to what I know is that it is substantially better than a XT660Z. You must however increase shock preload! Considering the laziness of engineers (of which I am one!  :lol8:), most should not have change much except for the upside downness of the L and RLA and increased diameter. This alone should make it better.

Brakes - No competition. L and RLA better.

Lights - No competition, LED on Rally is really good. For the L new lenses should be better designed than the old Tornado one. Halogen bulb is the same.

Luggage - Same basically. Looks like the Tornado has a little less space.

Wheels - Same. Most probably stronger on the L and RLA.

Electronics - I don't think it is comparable.

Weight - L and Tornado the same. RLA heavier due to longer fork, headlight unit, screen, plastic side panels. I must however say that the L and RLA are "lighter" in terms of the parts, however not the sum of the parts (radiator, EFI unit, electronics, lights and forks adds quite a bit)

What am I forgetting? Seat?  :lol8:

Wait! I did forget something, your original question!  :lol8: Yes, I think they are comparable, but keeping in mind the pitfalls of the old vs new debate.

All in all. Specs wise, the L and rally is better on average. Some things are worse, which for some might make it worse, but that is what it is. Ride wise, I thoroughly enjoy my Rally :thumleft:! However, I would probably still have enjoyed myself on a Tornado as well!
« Last Edit: October 17, 2017, 10:17:18 am by Constantinople »
 

Offline blauth

Re: CRF250 Rally/DS
« Reply #98 on: October 17, 2017, 02:06:17 pm »
Thanks for the detailed response Constantinople,

I think I agree with just about everything you say. I hadn't thought about the lighting.  I have a 55W globe in mine and they are adequate at best. That's a big bonus on the new bikes.

Suspension, I'd need to ride them back to back in offroad terrain to compare. I've had a lot of bikes and many of them being adventure bikes. In all my adv bikes which included (DRZ400E, KTM640 Adventure, 2xXR650L, 2xXR600R, 1x XT660Z Tenere, 1x XT660R, 1x Honda Dominator 650, 1x 650 x-Challenge), this little 250 Tornado's suspension is possibly the best for adventure riding. It takes big hits well, it deals with the sharp edges comfortably and doesn't wash, being super predictable. Stanchions are thick for the size of the bike @ 41mm. It doesn't have the most travel (245mm), nor is it the sharpest for razor sharp handling but as an all rounder, it's the best at Adv of what I've owned...I think..at least in my opinion. The slightly shorter suspension travel is actually an advantage as an Adv as far as I'm concerned because with road work, you have significantly less dive and flex. I've obviously not comparing to GS800, Tiger 800 or the dirt bikes that I've used as Adv bikes because they really are incomparable.   I'm not really sold on the 'Larger Diameter' makes them better, it's all about the internals. As you can see, many of my past Adv bikes had upside down's which do typically provide less flex but most of them have not had nice high speed compression characteristics (excluding the XR's which are all super plush) making them skittish on rocky terrain.

The 250L that I did a little offroad on was OK in front but the rear suspension was a shocker. Does the Rally damp better and correctly if you wind the pre-load all the way down (harder)?
« Last Edit: October 17, 2017, 02:07:56 pm by blauth »
 

Offline Constantinople

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Re: CRF250 Rally/DS
« Reply #99 on: October 17, 2017, 03:25:00 pm »
Wow, you certainly had quite the ride(s)!  :thumleft:

I like how you say "for adventure", too many people miss that. You don't want a hard riding bike, like some off-roads, where the suspension is set up for high speeds. I don't have too much motorbiking experience, most of my hard riding experience is in mountain biking (riding enduro), where your suspension is setup for what you are actually doing. And yes, some people jaag when on their adventure so they will need different settings. Sorry, off topic!

I must say, pretty well done to Honda if they set that Tornado suspension so well! Most of it was translated to the L and RLA I believe. It is not perfect for everyone, in my experience, but it is very good for adventure. The RLA was well damped through the rocky sections in Kaokoland (or dare I say, boulder sections...  ;)) Very forgiving even in my tired state when hitting the rocks in the afternoon. The rear was just wallowy with all the luggage (had way too much...) I can probably give you better feedback on the shock after more 1-day trips, since I adjusted the shock just before the trip, so I have very little experience off road when lightly loaded.

And yes, the damping is better when the preload is dialed up. However, that is not by physically adjusting the damping, more the effect of the "stiffer" spring acting together with the standard damping. It takes out the wallow when riding without too much weight on the back. (mine was not even all the way down...)

It is actually amazing what some guys do to their 250Ls. They fiddle a bit with the fork and put a new shock in. Viola, they blast over whoops without the bike dancing everywhere. Basically all that separates those tuned 250Ls from a dirk bike is the L in the name and the 10 000 km service interval!  O0 Oh yes, and no power wheelies!  :lol8:

There are 2 weak points on the Rally.
1) The toolbox mounting tab on the sub-frame, little thin welded plate. After a few falls on the left the plate bent. After stripping everything to get a good look, I realized the helmet lock tab plate is 3 times thicker and welded better!  :bueller: So I am cooking up a mod for that.

2) Shock, looks nice with the red spring, and it does improve significantly with the increased pre-load. But come on, how expensive is damping adjustment??? Nearly every single mountain bike full suspension has this!
« Last Edit: October 17, 2017, 03:36:56 pm by Constantinople »