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Offline Eendstop

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HD also lied
« on: August 22, 2016, 06:07:37 am »
From IOL:

Harley-Davidson has been fined $12 million (R162 million) and ordered to invest another $3 million (R40.5 million) in clean air technology to settle a lawsuit over a device that increases its motorcycles' air pollution beyond legal limits.

The US Department of Justice said on Thursday: “Harley-Davidson manufactured and sold approximately 340 000 'super tuners,' that, once installed, caused motorcycles to emit higher amounts of certain air pollutants than what the company certified to the Environmental Protection Agency.”
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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: HD also lied
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2016, 07:06:22 am »
All this dirty air, while the "super tuner" pushed up average HD power by a margin of approximately 0,0025%.
 

Offline Regis Laconi

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Re: HD also lied
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2016, 07:10:23 am »
Why would you want to "super tune" a Harley.  And if the rewards are so little...seems like a very big waist of time and money.
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Offline gunsports

Re: HD also lied
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2016, 08:49:31 am »
Harleys need all the help they can get.
 

Offline eberhard

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Re: HD also lied
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2016, 11:13:17 am »
Simply rub it off as a lot of hot air.
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Offline lecap

Re: HD also lied
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2016, 01:55:37 pm »
And what exactly do you guys think BMW does when they load the low octane fuel map ???

They throw the emissions and performance under the bus to stop the engine from knocking.

But they probably have a fancy disclaimer which says you are only allowed to use said fuel map off public road and in select far away no one gives a shit countries.


The HD "super tuner" likely works just as well as all the after market power commanders & accelerator modules and whatever those gimmicks are called.
Why do you question the reason behind making a HD run and perform well whilst it's totally acceptable, normal and even cool to make your BMW or Japanese bike run well and maybe give it one or three extra kilowatts it does not need?

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Offline whitedelight

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Re: HD also lied
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2016, 11:36:17 pm »
Yep the super tuner same as power commander. I think the only versions it came stock on was the screaming eagle versions. If you do headers and air filter,then like any other bike,you got to tweak afr.
Most new bikes and cars have a built in cheat for emissions.
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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: HD also lied
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2016, 08:02:05 am »
And what exactly do you guys think BMW does when they load the low octane fuel map ???

They throw the emissions and performance under the bus to stop the engine from knocking.

But they probably have a fancy disclaimer which says you are only allowed to use said fuel map off public road and in select far away no one gives a shit countries.


The HD "super tuner" likely works just as well as all the after market power commanders & accelerator modules and whatever those gimmicks are called.
Why do you question the reason behind making a HD run and perform well whilst it's totally acceptable, normal and even cool to make your BMW or Japanese bike run well and maybe give it one or three extra kilowatts it does not need?



Because LeCap, after the mods, the Jap bike actually does run well.
 

Offline Vintage_Mania

Re: HD also lied
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2016, 08:14:17 am »
Interesting conversation here - I'm just wondering, if the HD's are so absolutely crap, why is it the most copied design out there? Every Japanese motorcycle manufacturer tries its utmost to make a cruiser the yanks and the rest of the world would like and buy.

Wonder what the gains are on a Yamaha Roadstar after it gets "Super Tuned"?

People say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day. And doing nothing often leads to the very best kind of something.
 

Offline Fudge

Re: HD also lied
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2016, 08:28:03 am »
Interesting conversation here - I'm just wondering, if the HD's are so absolutely crap, why is it the most copied design out there? Every Japanese motorcycle manufacturer tries its utmost to make a cruiser the yanks and the rest of the world would like and buy.

Because Harley Davidson is a cultural icon perhaps?
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Offline Vintage_Mania

Re: HD also lied
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2016, 08:29:10 am »
Or if you get it right, you will sell a million bikes?

People say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day. And doing nothing often leads to the very best kind of something.
 

Offline Buddy

Re: HD also lied
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2016, 12:58:17 pm »
Because there are a whole lot of people who don't know how to corner on a motorcycle.
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Offline lecap

Re: HD also lied
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2016, 08:40:47 pm »
Because there are a whole lot of people who don't know how to corner on a motorcycle.

This is definitely not limited to HD riders.
HD just builds special bikes which you can't lean far for riders who can't corner.

The other manufacturers just let the customers embarrass themselves. :laughing5:
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Offline whitedelight

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Re: HD also lied
« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2016, 08:39:25 pm »
Because there are a whole lot of people who don't know how to corner on a motorcycle.

This is definitely not limited to HD riders.
HD just builds special bikes which you can't lean far for riders who can't corner.

The other manufacturers just let the customers embarrass themselves. :laughing5:

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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: HD also lied
« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2016, 09:16:00 pm »
Interesting conversation here - I'm just wondering, if the HD's are so absolutely crap, why is it the most copied design out there? Every Japanese motorcycle manufacturer tries its utmost to make a cruiser the yanks and the rest of the world would like and buy.

Wonder what the gains are on a Yamaha Roadstar after it gets "Super Tuned"?



It becomes an R1.......theHarley just stays a Harley. :thumleft:
 

Offline Eendstop

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Re: HD also lied
« Reply #15 on: August 25, 2016, 06:15:18 am »
Ford also in the pooh for false claims as to the Kuga's fuel consumption.  All over the news now.  I'm glad now I did not follow a suggestion to buy one recently  :deal:

« Last Edit: August 25, 2016, 07:14:33 am by Eendstop »
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Offline lecap

Re: HD also lied
« Reply #16 on: August 25, 2016, 09:16:58 am »
Ford also in the pooh for false claims as to the Kuga's fuel consumption.  All over the news now.  I'm glad now I did not follow a suggestion to buy one recently  :deal:



Do you choose your car according to its fuel economy? (It would be awesome environmental awareness if you do!)

I can understand people being pissed off if they buy a car with a certain performance and after a while the manufacturer has to down tune it because they were cheating the emission tests. That sucks.
But if they say it uses 5l / 100km and it actually uses 5.5l? I mean those test cycle consumptions are cheated together already, as in cars with no rear view mirrors and no alternators to reduce parasitic losses...
???
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Offline Vintage_Mania

Re: HD also lied
« Reply #17 on: August 25, 2016, 09:25:44 am »
Agree with lecap - if you look at the trend it seems most, if not all, manufacturers run with a "testing bias" ECU when they do their numbers.

People say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day. And doing nothing often leads to the very best kind of something.
 

Offline Eendstop

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Re: HD also lied
« Reply #18 on: August 25, 2016, 10:38:30 am »
Ford also in the pooh for false claims as to the Kuga's fuel consumption.  All over the news now.  I'm glad now I did not follow a suggestion to buy one recently  :deal:



Do you  your car according to its fuel economy? (It would be awesome environmental awareness if you do!)

I can understand people being pissed off if they buy a car with a certain performance and after a while the manufacturer has to down tune it because they were cheating the emission tests. That sucks.
But if they say it uses 5l / 100km and it actually uses 5.5l? I mean those test cycle consumptions are cheated together already, as in cars with no rear view mirrors and no alternators to reduce parasitic losses...
???

Yes,  to a great measure I do.  Economics,  I do 50k km per year.  Aaaand..... Ford alleges 7 liters per 100km. Some reported they get 12 and more. Close to double.  My cage says around 5,,,I stand on 5.3l/km over 8000 km since I got it.  More acceptable I'd say.
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Offline Sylvester

Re: HD also lied
« Reply #19 on: August 25, 2016, 11:39:51 am »
I am sure HD lies about their noise levels too....
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