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Author Topic: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??  (Read 17148 times)

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Offline KarooKid

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Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
« Reply #60 on: September 02, 2016, 04:53:21 am »
After reading that I am sure of one thing at least - 450 4-stroke.

Now it is just about finding the right one.
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Offline KarooKid

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Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
« Reply #61 on: September 02, 2016, 05:02:39 am »
Funny thing that always comes out is how some swear by one brand and others will never touch it.

Had some say stay away from BMW and older KTM and others saying they are bulletproof.

In terms of bikes I like my BMW's, but would also like to get the right toy to play with and there must be merits in brands specializing in enduro bikes.

Would something like this then be an option? - http://www.gumtree.co.za/a-motorcycles-scooters/claremont-newlands/2007-ktm-450-xcw/1001745399660910395216009
« Last Edit: September 02, 2016, 05:03:27 am by KarooKid »
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Offline JustBendIt

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Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
« Reply #62 on: September 02, 2016, 06:09:18 am »
YES that ktm 450 should work well - everything exactly the same as the 525 just smaller engine - 2007 is also the last year that the RFS (racing four stroke engine) was produced. The RFS engine has a water pump driven by the camshaft and has overhead adjustable style tappets to set valve clearances - you do not take the camshaft out to shim the valves - this is important to me because I check valve clearances often - not as often as every 10 hours like KTM specify under racing conditions - I do it every 50 hours but that is still often enough compared to the 950 I am used to that gets checked every 15 000 km.

You can get 4 different fuel tanks for that bike - std is 8l, acerbis make a 13l and 25l and safari make a 15l - the 25l is the best value for money and will give you a range of 450 km.

Find out how many hours it has done - it has an hour meter on its instrument cluster - press the 0 button on the right until total hours are displayed. KTM spec a top end rebuild and valve replacement every 150 hours. My 525 was only done on 360 hours before Amageza last year - but then it was previously owned and cared for by 2 pensioners WayneH and Pure Orange. I have done another 100 hours since then. My "bottom end" (sounds rude) has never been opened - bike has 27 000 km on it now. If you do the top end rebuild with std valves you can budget on R2500 - I used Kibblewhite valves and springs and it cost R5000 but then these are much better and stronger than std and in 100 hours since fitment the clearances have not changed.

In 2008 KTM replaced the RFS engine with the XC4 engine design in the 450 and 530 - lots of people have had bad experiences with this but then again lots more love them - DesmoDirt has 4 of them and never had a day's hit - ChrisMann has a rally 530 that fucks off like greased lightning.

The XC4 engine has a split gearbox and crankcase oil supply - each holds about 600 ml oil - there were several problems with oil migration and premature engine failure due to low oil levels probably because owners did not keep a strict eye on the oil levels. There is a modification that can be done where you drill through the casings so that they share the same oil supply - but that involves splitting the casings.

The XC4 engine was replaced in 2012 when KTM went to the current engine with fuel injection.

The 2017 bikes which are being launched now have a new engine design apparently - but they are well over R100K - one day when I'm big ...
« Last Edit: September 02, 2016, 06:20:29 am by JustBendIt »
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Offline KarooKid

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Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
« Reply #63 on: September 02, 2016, 06:31:49 am »
Thanks Justin.

Will find out and report back.
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Offline MaxThePanda

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Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
« Reply #64 on: September 02, 2016, 07:42:13 am »

I will never buy into this argument.  It's not like he had no choice and he REALLY rates the G450


To be fair here, Peter's G450 has had an entire front end swap - from a Yamaha YZ! Those KYB SSS forks he's using are widely considered the best production forks on the market. The standard stuff on the G450 is shit, so Peter's bike is a bit of a Frankenstein. Peter is a smooth and fast rider, and a terrific navigator, but there comes a time, at 120kph out in the middle of the desert, when you hit that rut you weren't expecting and that upgrade saves your bacon.

Now this is from the perspective of a racer, and one could argue that for pottering around it doesn't make any difference. And to some extent that's true. But if you're buying a small bike to play, do funduros, rough tour etc. then at some point you're going to start pushing the bike and challenging yourself more in the terrain.

For my money, the RFS KTM, at least in part because of the suspension. That OC WP stuff is well understood, easily tuneable, and the spares and backup is just a bonus. Perhaps the CRF and WR as a second choice.

I wouldn't touch the G450 with a barge pole for funduro riding. Maybe for light touring - BMW are good with spares so maybe they'll keep supporting it long term.

Offline Rough Rider

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Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
« Reply #65 on: September 02, 2016, 08:13:47 am »
Calling all the experts out there.

Which of these would you choose if the price and condition was similar?

Let's go back to the original question

My answer Yamaha - only because it has a kickstart and the bmw kymco loncin does not

But then I must ask what do you want to do with the bike ?

If its just general putting around and not racing then almost any of the 450s made by the big boys in the last 8 - 10 years will be fine

Let's also assume that you have a max budget of R35 000 to spend on a toy like this - bikes like these are being advertised for anything from R25 000 - R40 000

Most important is condition and regular religious maintenance over the years - if this has not been done and cannot be proven then you are buying a potentially bottomless money pit

My order of preference

1. ktm 450 or 525 with RFS engine - because they have a 6 speed gearbox and overhead adjustable style tappets to set valve clearances - you don't have to take cams out to shim it - very important for my lazy ass
2. Husqvarna te450 or 510 - I had a te450 that is now with Crossed-Up - awesome bike - also has 6 speed gearbox
2. Yamaha wr450
3. bmw g450x - does not have a kickstart - riding a bike is much better than pushing it
4. Honda crf 450 - but you must look for one that has valves done
5. Kawasaki klx 450
6. Suzuki drz400 - bit of a donkey but reliable - no kickstart
7. Honda xr400r - ditto - kickstart only I think




Good explanation. Allow me to fine-tune a bit.

The short answer to WR450F or BMW 450x is, the Yamaha every time.

First, the 250 or bigger issue. While it's hard to have more fun than on a 250 4-stroke, the ONE thing that makes a 250 undesirable is the maintenance schedule. ALL 250 4-strokes. Fact is, it's a small engine that works hard. Your auntie google can tell you all about hourly maintenance intervals. I don't know if you're a pro racer, but a 250 requires more maintenance PERIOD.

Agree with maintenance history aspect. A bike that's had 4 previous owners is a BIG no-no. Try and find a one-owner bike that has been cared for. And don't EVER buy ANY bike from a racer, pro or not  :3some:

For trailriding or light dualsporting you REALLY need a 6-speed.

The KTM RFS engine is reliable as an anvil. A 2006-2008 KTM 450 or 525 XC-W (or whatever they designated it then) in good shape, is an outstanding machine.

I wouldn't touch a BMW 450 X with a barge pole. Strange experimental technology - if it was so great, why did NOBODY copy it, and why was it only made for what? 2 years?  Think SPARES. Not to mention, even when new it couldn't hold a candle to the real dirtbikes. Google "BMW 450 X reviews" and see for yourself.

Same with older Huskies. The 610's etc, before KTM bought the name. Good bikes, but too much of a chequered last two decades, with the brand going out of business, being sold, swapped, restarted etc. Again, think SPARES AVAILABILITY.

You can't go wrong with any 250 or 450 KTM, Yamaha or Honda - keeping in mind the 250 maintenance issue.

CRF 450's had a year or two with valve issues, avoid those years but generally speaking, excellent bikes. The 2008 model is considered the best of the line, the two or three years after that not so much.

Suzuki DRZ 400 is a nice reliable bike but takes big investment to make dirt-worthy. Excellent light dualsport, though.

Honda XR 400 is brilliant, but old school, if you don't know how to kickstart a big 4-stroke, stay away  :lol8:

Generally, stay away from KX's and KLX's. Engines not too bad but evertyhing else is shite. Also, KLX not made anymore.

The shortlist:
1) Honda, KTM, Yamaha
2) If you do get a 250, be aware you're going to k@k en betaal maintenance-wise.

I'm not familiar anymore with street-legal requirements in SA. If you REALLY need a plated bike, your choices would be limited by whatever that requires.

Generally speaking - if you can't maintain a dirt bike yourself - besides major engine rebuilds or suspension modification - you probably shouldn't own one.  All the whingeing about dealers that fecked you on your 450SX/YZ/CRF service baffles me.  

Brilliantly done. I agree with 90% of what you said. I think if you are racing then perhaps the maintainance on 250 4t will cost more. For average weekend hack this will not be the case. These bikes are making so much power now that the average rider will only be able to utilize 60% most of the time. The maintainace only goes up when they are bounced off the rev limiter in every gear all the time.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2016, 08:41:11 am by Rough Rider »
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Offline monkeyboy

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Re:
« Reply #66 on: September 02, 2016, 10:53:33 am »
I'd say the WR, even taking into account that we are kinda Bavarian ambassadors. 

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Offline KarooKid

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Re:
« Reply #67 on: September 02, 2016, 11:07:39 am »
I'd say the WR, even taking into account that we are kinda Bavarian ambassadors. 

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Offline JustBendIt

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Re:
« Reply #68 on: September 02, 2016, 11:11:03 am »
I'd say the WR, even taking into account that we are kinda Bavarian ambassadors.  

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The Bavarian theme runs deep with me...........

Don't let it bend you over and thrust deep

I know you love your boxer beemers

The 450 BMW is as similar to a boxer BMW as what Linda Lovelace was to Mother Theresa - both are motorcycles - but that's where the Bavarian theme stops in the 450

« Last Edit: September 02, 2016, 11:16:01 am by JustBendIt »
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Offline KarooKid

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Re:
« Reply #69 on: September 02, 2016, 11:25:22 am »
I'd say the WR, even taking into account that we are kinda Bavarian ambassadors.  

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The Bavarian theme runs deep with me...........

Don't let it bend you over and thrust deep

I know you love your boxer beemers

The 450 BMW is as similar to a boxer BMW as what Linda Lovelace was to Mother Theresa - both are motorcycles - but that's where the Bavarian theme stops in the 450



 :imaposer:  :imaposer:  :imaposer:

KTM is still available, but not getting back to my questions.

Found a WR with 5900km. Motard being converted back to a endure.

I might have come across a really neat BMW as well.....

Should I make my Facebook Status - It's Complicated?
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Offline Bus

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Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
« Reply #70 on: September 02, 2016, 11:35:59 am »
The 450 BMW is as similar to a boxer BMW as what Linda Lovelace was to Mother Theresa - both are motorcycles -

They are also both dead, but people still like them and talk about them

:laughing7:
« Last Edit: September 02, 2016, 11:36:39 am by Bus »
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Offline KarooKid

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Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
« Reply #71 on: September 02, 2016, 11:40:50 am »
The 450 BMW is as similar to a boxer BMW as what Linda Lovelace was to Mother Theresa - both are motorcycles -

They are also both dead, but people still like them and talk about them

:laughing7:

Like them and talk about them for different reasons though
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Offline Bus

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Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
« Reply #72 on: September 02, 2016, 11:42:51 am »
Hehehe... Sorry, I couldn't resist...

Im also peeking with one eye at the WR450...
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Offline KarooKid

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Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
« Reply #73 on: September 02, 2016, 11:46:50 am »
Hehehe... Sorry, I couldn't resist...

Im also peeking with one eye at the WR450...

Same one I am looking at?
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Offline Bus

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Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
« Reply #74 on: September 02, 2016, 11:48:06 am »
No, no, just in general.

Gatjeuk, jy weet?
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Offline Bus

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Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
« Reply #75 on: September 02, 2016, 11:48:32 am »
Just remind me again, you want street legal?
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Offline KarooKid

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Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
« Reply #76 on: September 02, 2016, 11:59:39 am »
Gatjeuk ek weet al te goed. This is what this thread is about.

Street legal would be first prize. Would prefer to ride short distances rather than load it.
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Offline Bus

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Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
« Reply #77 on: September 02, 2016, 12:08:26 pm »
Cool, will share links if I find something relevant.
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Offline JacoM

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Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
« Reply #78 on: September 02, 2016, 01:10:25 pm »
http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=184263.0

Charl, Is the YZ with WR gearbox , if on the road, not your solution? We know Rolling Stone so bike can be trusted?
Add R1000 for courier (cannot remember the name of courier I used but owner is also a biker - pm me if you need it..)

ps..What do you think about my comment of earlier?? ;)
 

Offline KarooKid

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Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
« Reply #79 on: September 02, 2016, 01:29:21 pm »
http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=184263.0

Charl, Is the YZ with WR gearbox , if on the road, not your solution? We know Rolling Stone so bike can be trusted?
Add R1000 for courier (cannot remember the name of courier I used but owner is also a biker - pm me if you need it..)

ps..What do you think about my comment of earlier?? ;)

Thanks Jaco ek sal bietjie kyk.

Ek stem oor die HP. Het dit wragtag oorweeg, maar dan slag my vrou my.

Ry julle nog by Macassar?
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