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Author Topic: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??  (Read 17127 times)

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Online ChrisL - DUSTRIDERS

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Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
« Reply #80 on: September 02, 2016, 04:16:10 pm »
KK ek weet dis nie in die 450 klas nie maar wat is jou opinie oor die Xchallenge vir wat jy met die fiets wil doen?
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Offline Bus

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Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
« Reply #81 on: September 02, 2016, 04:24:31 pm »
Oom Chris, if I may...

I might make myself unpopular with their owners, but the X-Challenge, to me, is one of the worst 650 bikes ever. (If used as the sales & marketing jargon suggests)

It is actually moera heavy and makes piss poor power for a 650 class bike.

And a seat that makes a DRZ seat feel like a Lazyboy.

And that ridiculous tennis ball for a rear suspension?

Nee hel, I was left highly disappointed.

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Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
« Reply #82 on: September 02, 2016, 04:26:11 pm »
 :thumleft:
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Offline KarooKid

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Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
« Reply #83 on: September 02, 2016, 05:04:33 pm »
Ek het dit ook oorweeg, alhoewel ek in sommige opsigte saam met Bus stem.

Ek dink ek gaan redelik van die speel idee weghaal as ek 'n X kry. Hy is te swaar vir sekere goed en die airshock sal moet gaan.

Maar daar is minder onderhoud en ander voordele. Dit is net nie 100% die tool vir die job nie.
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Offline katana

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Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
« Reply #84 on: September 02, 2016, 05:08:30 pm »
Tussen die twee is net die WR 'n wenner. Ek dink jy moet jou vorige bike se stories vergeet. Dit was of bad luck of bad maintenance.
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Offline KarooKid

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Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
« Reply #85 on: September 02, 2016, 05:19:27 pm »
Tussen die twee is net die WR 'n wenner. Ek dink jy moet jou vorige bike se stories vergeet. Dit was of bad luck of bad maintenance.

Ek wil net weer quarry toe n slag
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Offline Crossed-up

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Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
« Reply #86 on: September 02, 2016, 06:42:07 pm »
Tussen die twee is net die WR 'n wenner. Ek dink jy moet jou vorige bike se stories vergeet. Dit was of bad luck of bad maintenance.

Ek wil net weer quarry toe n slag

And we look forward to your return. Come on your 1200. We'll stay away from the really tight tracks. Sack used to ride his 1200 there and had great fun.
 

Offline KarooKid

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Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
« Reply #87 on: September 02, 2016, 07:39:51 pm »
Tussen die twee is net die WR 'n wenner. Ek dink jy moet jou vorige bike se stories vergeet. Dit was of bad luck of bad maintenance.

Ek wil net weer quarry toe n slag

And we look forward to your return. Come on your 1200. We'll stay away from the really tight tracks. Sack used to ride his 1200 there and had great fun.



If I am not back on a 450 by next weekend, I'll bring the Adventure 👍👍
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Offline Gensetter

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Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
« Reply #88 on: September 03, 2016, 09:42:24 am »
No contest between WR an BM. Jade Gutzeit had  BM for a season, with WR front suspension.
I have ridden both and in standard trim the R ins hands down.
The parts for a WR are super cheap and readily available.
 

Offline wolf skaap

Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
« Reply #89 on: September 03, 2016, 05:35:01 pm »
Just go ahead and buy the BMW.
You obviously have a thing for them and that's just fine.

To be honest, arriving 10 seconds later on the slowest 450 will make no difference to you anyway.

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Offline Buff

Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
« Reply #90 on: September 03, 2016, 08:02:09 pm »
KK, if you're interested I have a mate selling his 2008 WR450. It's a clean bike with 50hours on the clock and he's asking R45K. Has a fan & fmf pipe and is licensed. Drop me a PM with your email address and I can send you some photos.
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Offline SteveD

Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
« Reply #91 on: September 03, 2016, 08:50:13 pm »
....the X-Challenge, to me, is one of the worst 650 bikes ever. (If used as the sales & marketing jargon suggests)
It is actually moera heavy and makes piss poor power for a 650 class bike.
And a seat that makes a DRZ seat feel like a Lazyboy.
And that ridiculous tennis ball for a rear suspension?

I own one, and you are right.
I had to replace the tennis ball, that horrible seat, and a few other bits. It is heavy and underpowered compared with other 650s. And a bit sluggish, not exactly a highly strung thoroughbred.
But I still like it, plenty.
 

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Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
« Reply #92 on: September 03, 2016, 09:16:15 pm »
It just seems some guys are BM fans and they are willing to look past everything that made the 450X bit of a oddball and go for it. That being said I'm sure many people will be quite happy with them but really there are much better options.
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Offline KarooKid

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Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
« Reply #93 on: September 03, 2016, 09:51:42 pm »
It just seems some guys are BM fans and they are willing to look past everything that made the 450X bit of a oddball and go for it. That being said I'm sure many people will be quite happy with them but really there are much better options.

This made me think about my cycling days.

Cycling is a classic sport where normal people believe their equipment will give them the edge. Therefor you'll get guys pitching at races with a lekker boep and a R150k bicycle.

But they feature nowhere in the race. I always said - you can give Burry Stander a BMX and he will still beat 90% of the people in a mtb race.

Same goes for bikes I guess. You can have the best tool for the job. But most of us are not skilled enough to ride a bike to its full potential.

Maybe it is less about what you ride and more about getting out there.

I am sure Wade Young will make a MotoMia look good compared to me.
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Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
« Reply #94 on: September 03, 2016, 11:30:30 pm »
That was well said KarooKid!!

My old XT600E is also quite a dog, chassis-wise, yet to me it is a 690 and an R1, I love this bike!
 

Offline Omninorm

Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
« Reply #95 on: September 04, 2016, 11:36:35 pm »
....the X-Challenge, to me, is one of the worst 650 bikes ever. (If used as the sales & marketing jargon suggests)
It is actually moera heavy and makes piss poor power for a 650 class bike.
And a seat that makes a DRZ seat feel like a Lazyboy.
And that ridiculous tennis ball for a rear suspension?

I own one, and you are right.
I had to replace the tennis ball, that horrible seat, and a few other bits. It is heavy and underpowered compared with other 650s. And a bit sluggish, not exactly a highly strung thoroughbred.
But I still like it, plenty.


I ride an XChallenge as well and to the OP. I don't  Go for the WR450 in his case But...

How is the XChallenge heavy and underpowered?
The only 650 road going Thumper that weighs less and makes more power is the 690 and the Honda 650R and the R is not a road bike.
Replace the tennis ball and it's pretty good.

But yeah...WR450 would be my choice here but otherwise the above mentioned Honda 650R would also be good!
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Offline BlueBull2007

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Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
« Reply #96 on: September 05, 2016, 12:47:55 am »

Lots of great comments here and interesting discussion.

Oh, and go check Dakar stats as well  :biggrin:

For shits and giggles I went looking for this, the last time BMW entered the Dakar was in 2011. Their hopes was for the top 15 but the motorad team could only manage top 30 and the privateer at no 70 of 90 bikes that finished.

Did not for one moment imply running as top runner but more their ability to finish as well as reliability.

Wildwood actually said what I wanted to say, just a bit better  ;D

 

Indeed my reply was merely stating fact and not opinion... So more like " out of curiosity " I wanted to see what the actual result was. the wiki article states their aim was top 15. In fact somewhere around stage 11 is where things went wrong that's when they moved from 13th overall to top 30 and this was due to navigation issues not bike related.

Also my experience on the G450, designed by a company with no enduro background or knowledge, why would it work well if it were'nt for luck?

If it was that shit how did Peter manage to win the Amageza twice?  Pure luck I guess  :snorting:





I was super excited when the G450 came out, stoked to see them race in the Dakar and all over the place, but was really bummed when it was discontinued. The reason was BMW does not do racing bikes.

It was actually a Speedbrain-BMW partnership and Speedbrain left after BMW told them they were not to get involved with the design of or suggest modifications to the engine. The classic case of engineers and their ego's.

And that was that. No more 450 as BMW's target market is the 304050 something tough guy on a big bikes image. (no offence to anyone! :laughing7:)

The bikes were really, really fast in an era when the anything bigger than the 690 engine was deemed to be too big and dangerous for the Dakar by the ASO. You will recall up until that time, the KTM 690 had become the best rally bike thanks to many years of R&D by KTM.

In 2009, against the better judgement most rally enthusiasts David Fretigne famously showed that he could be competitive in the Dakar in a WR 450 with Yamaha France being the "factory team". He won a few stages and was up in the top 3-4 if I recall correctly against the bigger and faster 690's. This was after a few disastrous experiments he had riding with the 2-track WR in Africa.

People saw that a lighter bike had some advantages especially on the more WRC type stages in the South American Dakar, and, coupled with the onset of the 450 rule which was announced in 2009, it was a real opportunity for manufacturers to try and get a better hand on KTM who had begun to totally dominate.

Unfortunately Yamaha never could get their act together and form a proper factory team; it was always without support from Japan, and I suppose infighting spelt the demise of the official Yamaha effort. It has always been a bike that has had to be modified for rally purposes...not ideal for winning, but a good option for a privateer like me who just wants to finish a rally. The WR engines are bullet proof. Seriously, they can be pushed at full gas far harder for far longer than any KTM EXC.

But I digress, back to BMW:

Speedbrain was headed up by some really experienced rally guys and they teamed up with BMW to build the G450. It was a beautiful, well balanced bike and the front sprocket in line with the swing arm was thought to be something really clever along with the first version of what we now call "rally light" fairing setups.

It proved to be a really quick bike winning podiums on a number of the shorter rallies. It also won multiple stages on the Dakar, but the engine gearboxes grenaded without warning on multiple occasions in the latter part of the Dakar over a couple of years. They were mostly being ridden by top factory guys, being maintained really well each night in the bivouacs by Speedbrain. But the damn engine and particularly the gearbox left rider stranded not only on the Dakar, but also at the Brazilian Sertoes rally. It seemed these bikes could not do the distance. That front sprocket in line with the swing arm bearing was clearly not working out, and while we will never get to hear the real story behind it there as a massive falling out between Speedbrain & BMW I am sure was about that new configuration. I was gutted.

No doubt about it Peter is super fast on his BMW. Its still a good, light, very fast, fuel efficient bike, but the model does have a history of problems that were never properly resolved. All due respect to the Amageza, but its only 1/3 to 1/2 the length of a Dakar, perhaps the perfect distance for a G450, which won other similar rallies like the Pharoes. Over Dakar distances, however, the BMW was quickly relegated into obscurity.

Nothing to do with any rider's ability whatsoever.
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Offline BlueBull2007

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Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
« Reply #97 on: September 05, 2016, 12:50:29 am »
Not that all that was any help in answering your question. ;D

I have become a WR fan, through and through. The carb on the old bikes is a bit of a bitch to get to though! Would be keen to take a new EFI bike that has been properly mapped for a spin at some point. :laughing7:
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Offline KarooKid

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Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
« Reply #98 on: September 05, 2016, 04:55:33 am »
Interesting observation and a nice little history lesson on the BMW.

If I was looking for a racing bike, KTM with their pedigree probably would have been the obvious choice, but racing is not on my priority list at all.

Quick question. How closely related is the BMW to the Husky's. I know back then BM bought Husqvarna so surely there should be some similarities.
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Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
« Reply #99 on: September 05, 2016, 08:02:07 am »
There was an association with Husky's for a while but that relationship also did not last - I suspect for the same reason the Speedbrain BMW relationship did not work.

As you likely know Husqvarna is now owned by KTM, and seemed to be coming into its own as a kind of prototype breed of KTM. Its rumored that KTM try out new tweaks and angles on the Husky rather than on their main brand. Its also seen flavors of KTM coming into it which is not a bad thing in itself either. For example there is a very sweet Husky 700 that has the frame of the KTM 450 RR/690 RR and the tanks of the new 450 rally replica as well. Its a thing of beauty and I want one! ;D

I think KTM understand also that Husky has always attracted independent thinkers, and their very loyal following (blazes on the forum or used to be is one) were super concerned it would just become the test brand for KTM. Instead they have allowed the brand to continue rather than die and be absorbed which is brilliant.
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