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Offline Bullet

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Re: Yamaha T7 Concept
« Reply #1140 on: December 03, 2019, 09:11:19 am »
I think looking at the 700 CP2 engine range could be an indication on price. Not sure what the comparison is overseas. North of R175k puts it closely proved to the 1200Z

I’m hoping it won’t be north of R160k but let’s see

The MT07 retails here for around 6600 pounds. It sells for around 125k in ZA.

The T7 retails here for around 9100 pounds now, that's 2500 pounds more. 2500 pounds equals 50k more or less. Hence my figure of 175K. I really cant see it being cheaper than that in ZA.

KTM 790 prices around 11K and 12 K  for the R model. In ZA its 175 and 190 respectively. Not sure how they managing to keep pricing that competitive relative to Europe but well done to KTM.

We wait n see I guess.

KTM have over a number of years shown that the SA market is important to them. They support the SA market by coordinating forward cover for forex over a long period in our fluctuating economy and phase the exports to SA to be more favourable to the SA buyers. The turn around on spares between the factory and local stores is also very well coordinated by KTM SA & Austria. After years of crashing and braking lots of KTMs, I can honestly say that the longest I have ever waited for some unusual spare (rear sub-frame for my 990) was 2 weeks on back order. Most service items and other wear items are in store, the rest usually takes between 7 and 10 days.

Yamaha on the other hand have for a long time shown that the SA market is not important. Years ago I switched from Yamaha to KTM out of frustration about the standard answer for spares of "2 to 6 weeks", which usually ended up being longer. Then the affordable pricing of Yamaha bikes and spares started to head north too. I switched my XT660 for a 640Adv and the YZ for a 250XC-W and never looked back.

In recent times I see far fewer Yamaha dealers around and can only imagine what the wait must be like for parts and bikes. The steep prices are not a big surprise to me. You can clearly see that SA is not important to Yamaha (or Honda either that's why I moved my wife from a Honda NCX to a KTM 1050Adv too).
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Offline m0lt3n

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Re: Yamaha T7 Concept
« Reply #1141 on: December 03, 2019, 09:57:12 am »
Bullet you not afraid of being banned? there is some serious Yamaha fans here, you are living on the edge man!
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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: Yamaha T7 Concept
« Reply #1142 on: December 03, 2019, 09:57:55 am »
I think looking at the 700 CP2 engine range could be an indication on price. Not sure what the comparison is overseas. North of R175k puts it closely proved to the 1200Z

I’m hoping it won’t be north of R160k but let’s see

The MT07 retails here for around 6600 pounds. It sells for around 125k in ZA.

The T7 retails here for around 9100 pounds now, that's 2500 pounds more. 2500 pounds equals 50k more or less. Hence my figure of 175K. I really cant see it being cheaper than that in ZA.

KTM 790 prices around 11K and 12 K  for the R model. In ZA its 175 and 190 respectively. Not sure how they managing to keep pricing that competitive relative to Europe but well done to KTM.

We wait n see I guess.

KTM have over a number of years shown that the SA market is important to them. They support the SA market by coordinating forward cover for forex over a long period in our fluctuating economy and phase the exports to SA to be more favourable to the SA buyers. The turn around on spares between the factory and local stores is also very well coordinated by KTM SA & Austria. After years of crashing and braking lots of KTMs, I can honestly say that the longest I have ever waited for some unusual spare (rear sub-frame for my 990) was 2 weeks on back order. Most service items and other wear items are in store, the rest usually takes between 7 and 10 days.

Yamaha on the other hand have for a long time shown that the SA market is not important. Years ago I switched from Yamaha to KTM out of frustration about the standard answer for spares of "2 to 6 weeks", which usually ended up being longer. Then the affordable pricing of Yamaha bikes and spares started to head north too. I switched my XT660 for a 640Adv and the YZ for a 250XC-W and never looked back.

In recent times I see far fewer Yamaha dealers around and can only imagine what the wait must be like for parts and bikes. The steep prices are not a big surprise to me. You can clearly see that SA is not important to Yamaha (or Honda either that's why I moved my wife from a Honda NCX to a KTM 1050Adv too).

I have to agree with you. :'(
 
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Offline zebra - Flying Brick

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Re: Yamaha T7 Concept
« Reply #1143 on: December 03, 2019, 10:16:12 am »


Quote from: Bullet on Today at 09:11:19 am



>... You can clearly see that SA is not important to Yamaha (or Honda either that's why I moved my wife from a Honda NCX to a KTM 1050Adv too).
I work a little closely with various Honda Dealers, and occasionally with Honda S.A., and I DO think they have upped their game noticeably from a few years back, so would be keen to hear if their parts/back-orders are as still problematic. I know great effort has been put in to improve the situation, etc.
Cheers, Chris


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Offline Bullet

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Re: Yamaha T7 Concept
« Reply #1144 on: December 03, 2019, 10:46:59 am »


Quote from: Bullet on Today at 09:11:19 am



>... You can clearly see that SA is not important to Yamaha (or Honda either that's why I moved my wife from a Honda NCX to a KTM 1050Adv too).
I work a little closely with various Honda Dealers, and occasionally with Honda S.A., and I DO think they have upped their game noticeably from a few years back, so would be keen to hear if their parts/back-orders are as still problematic. I know great effort has been put in to improve the situation, etc.
Cheers, Chris

I hope they have improved too. It sucks watching our choices being undermined by the priorities of others.
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Offline Tom van Brits

Re: Yamaha T7 Concept
« Reply #1145 on: December 03, 2019, 12:13:34 pm »


Quote from: Bullet on Today at 09:11:19 am



>... You can clearly see that SA is not important to Yamaha (or Honda either that's why I moved my wife from a Honda NCX to a KTM 1050Adv too).
I work a little closely with various Honda Dealers, and occasionally with Honda S.A., and I DO think they have upped their game noticeably from a few years back, so would be keen to hear if their parts/back-orders are as still problematic. I know great effort has been put in to improve the situation, etc.
Cheers, Chris

I hope they have improved too. It sucks watching our choices being undermined by the priorities of others.

Unfortunately the Jap dealers do not have the best reputation in SA for a while now wrt after sale service and you are lucky if you find a dealer that shelves at least all the service parts. I thought when I bought my NC750X that I'll get better service now from Honda but sadly not. Inconsistent pricing on services, I have 3 dealers to choose from in Pta which helps but there is sometimes even a R1000 difference in service quote between them. Regardless, dont stone me for this but i have friends riding KTM and when i compare reliability over a number of years with us riding Jap bikes vs the KTM mannne in my point of view it's less than a frustration to ride a reliable Honda or Yamaha vs a KTM which now have great service but spent a considerable amount of time in workshops.

I would love to own a T7 one day because that motor is a gem and Yamaha is reliable.
 

Offline J3THRO

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Re: Yamaha T7 Concept
« Reply #1146 on: December 03, 2019, 01:51:58 pm »
Daai T7's moet kak vinnig wees want ek het NOUNOG nie een gesien nie.

Nie fotos nie, n actual bike op die pad met n rider op hom wat hom ry
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GO INSTEAD WHERE THERE IS NO PATH AND LEAVE A TRAIL.
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Offline roxenz

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Re: Yamaha T7 Concept
« Reply #1147 on: December 03, 2019, 01:58:45 pm »
Daai T7's moet kak vinnig wees want ek het NOUNOG nie een gesien nie.
Nie fotos nie, n actual bike op die pad met n rider op hom wat hom ry
Al wat vinnig gaan wees aan die T7 is hoe dit jou bank balans laat sak...    :'(
 

Offline Tom van Brits

Re: Yamaha T7 Concept
« Reply #1148 on: December 03, 2019, 02:07:19 pm »
Daai T7's moet kak vinnig wees want ek het NOUNOG nie een gesien nie.
Nie fotos nie, n actual bike op die pad met n rider op hom wat hom ry
Al wat vinnig gaan wees aan die T7 is hoe dit jou bank balans laat sak...    :'(

 :spitcoffee: :imaposer:
 

Offline BuRP

Re: Yamaha T7 Concept
« Reply #1149 on: December 03, 2019, 02:14:15 pm »
SA is known for competitive pricing as our market in the main wont carry high end pricing, I think costs of overheads including showrooms and staff will be considerably lower than Europe and USA or Aus.

My my, what are you smoking Bru?
I want some too!
 O0

SA smokes their clients pricewise, always has and always will ..... live with it or buy a bicycle!
Sparta MC50, 46 other 50cc's, Garelli Tiger Cross, Jawa 250, Kawasaki S1 250/3, S2 350/3, H1 500/3, H2 750/3, Suzuki GT380/3 - 10 year gap - KDX200, BMW 1150GS Adventure, Honda CBR600RR, Honda XR650R 2007 & 2003, Honda CRF230, Yamaha BWS100, BMW F800GS Adventure, Husqvarna 701 Enduro, KTM 790 Adv R, KTM 2020 XC-W TPI 300 Six Days, KTM 2016 500 EXC-W Six Days, KTM 790 Adv R Rally ordered
 

Offline BuRP

Re: Yamaha T7 Concept
« Reply #1150 on: December 03, 2019, 02:17:38 pm »
Slipper clutch I've explained. MotoGP bikes have slipper clutches. Get the point?

Yes I do .... so you want a slipper clutch?
 >:D


The advantage of a modern (hence bidirectional) slipper clutch is that the lever-pull is lighter.
Who doesn't want that?
Sparta MC50, 46 other 50cc's, Garelli Tiger Cross, Jawa 250, Kawasaki S1 250/3, S2 350/3, H1 500/3, H2 750/3, Suzuki GT380/3 - 10 year gap - KDX200, BMW 1150GS Adventure, Honda CBR600RR, Honda XR650R 2007 & 2003, Honda CRF230, Yamaha BWS100, BMW F800GS Adventure, Husqvarna 701 Enduro, KTM 790 Adv R, KTM 2020 XC-W TPI 300 Six Days, KTM 2016 500 EXC-W Six Days, KTM 790 Adv R Rally ordered
 

Offline BuRP

Re: Yamaha T7 Concept
« Reply #1151 on: December 03, 2019, 02:24:33 pm »
KTM have over a number of years shown that the SA market is important to them. They support the SA market by coordinating forward cover for forex over a long period in our fluctuating economy and phase the exports to SA to be more favourable to the SA buyers. The turn around on spares between the factory and local stores is also very well coordinated by KTM SA & Austria. After years of crashing and braking lots of KTMs, I can honestly say that the longest I have ever waited for some unusual spare (rear sub-frame for my 990) was 2 weeks on back order. Most service items and other wear items are in store, the rest usually takes between 7 and 10 days.

Yamaha on the other hand have for a long time shown that the SA market is not important. Years ago I switched from Yamaha to KTM out of frustration about the standard answer for spares of "2 to 6 weeks", which usually ended up being longer. Then the affordable pricing of Yamaha bikes and spares started to head north too. I switched my XT660 for a 640Adv and the YZ for a 250XC-W and never looked back.

In recent times I see far fewer Yamaha dealers around and can only imagine what the wait must be like for parts and bikes. The steep prices are not a big surprise to me. You can clearly see that SA is not important to Yamaha (or Honda either that's why I moved my wife from a Honda NCX to a KTM 1050Adv too).

That's an agreeable summary :thumleft: I'd say  :thumleft:
Sparta MC50, 46 other 50cc's, Garelli Tiger Cross, Jawa 250, Kawasaki S1 250/3, S2 350/3, H1 500/3, H2 750/3, Suzuki GT380/3 - 10 year gap - KDX200, BMW 1150GS Adventure, Honda CBR600RR, Honda XR650R 2007 & 2003, Honda CRF230, Yamaha BWS100, BMW F800GS Adventure, Husqvarna 701 Enduro, KTM 790 Adv R, KTM 2020 XC-W TPI 300 Six Days, KTM 2016 500 EXC-W Six Days, KTM 790 Adv R Rally ordered
 
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Offline zebra - Flying Brick

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Re: Yamaha T7 Concept
« Reply #1152 on: December 03, 2019, 02:54:02 pm »


Quote from: BuRP on Today at 02:14:15 pm


>Quote from: Welsh on Yesterday at 02:26:38 pm
SA is known for competitive pricing as our market in the main wont carry high end pricing, I think costs of overheads including showrooms and staff will be considerably lower than Europe and USA or Aus.



My my, what are you smoking Bru?
I want some too!
 O0

SA smokes their clients pricewise, always has and always will ..... live with it or buy a bicycle!
Not so ;D , their is a thread on here, I think about a 1200GSA - for example - costs 25% more in USA, and 30% more in the U.K.
just speak to GOOSE on this forum for confirmation, but SA's pricing on new motorbikes is OFTEN a lot less than other markets.
Cheers, Chris



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Offline BuRP

Re: Yamaha T7 Concept
« Reply #1153 on: December 03, 2019, 03:27:45 pm »
Not so ;D , their is a thread on here, I think about a 1200GSA - for example - costs 25% more in USA, and 30% more in the U.K. [/size]
just speak to GOOSE on this forum for confirmation, but SA's pricing on new motorbikes is OFTEN a lot less than other markets.
Cheers, Chris



No Chris, izznt!  :P
It's all tax dependant, and our Vat is rather low compared to Eu - but also, there one may pay some 22% Luxury Tax on it before Vat is levied (i.e on which the 20-odd % Vat is cumulative, go figure that!).
And just in case someone wants to mention it, the importation taxes are comparable.
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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: Yamaha T7 Concept
« Reply #1154 on: December 04, 2019, 12:07:40 pm »
Slipper clutch I've explained. MotoGP bikes have slipper clutches. Get the point?

Yes I do .... so you want a slipper clutch?
 >:D


The advantage of a modern (hence bidirectional) slipper clutch is that the lever-pull is lighter.
Who doesn't want that?

In practise I think you'll struggle to find a clutch lighter because it is a slipper unit.  Unless of course, it slips all the time.
 

Offline zebra - Flying Brick

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Re: Yamaha T7 Concept
« Reply #1155 on: December 04, 2019, 12:47:35 pm »


Quote from: BuRP on Yesterday at 03:27:45 pm


>Quote from: zebra - Flying Brick on Yesterday at 02:54:02 pm
Not so ;D
, their is a thread on here, I think about a 1200GSA - for example - costs 25% more in USA, and 30% more in the U.K.
just speak to GOOSE on this forum for confirmation, but SA's pricing on new motorbikes is OFTEN a lot less than other markets.
Cheers, Chris
No Chris, izznt!  :P
It's all tax dependant, and our Vat is rather low compared to Eu - but also, there one may pay some 22% Luxury Tax on it before Vat is levied (i.e on which the 20-odd % Vat is cumulative, go figure that!).
And just in case someone wants to mention it, the importation taxes are comparable.





BuRP: I did some research:


the LOWEST 'floor price' 1250 GSA Adventure at Donfords Cape Town is R288K, the next model is R297K and R299K.


the lowest price (base1250 GSA) bike in Motorrad London is indeed R282K, but the next 3 models are equivalent to R333K, R340K and R344K.
Closer to 15% then, showroom floor to showroom floor. (UK Vat on bikes = 20%, versus our 15%).


I stand by the statement, borne out by 4 or 5 customers who are 'swallows' (summer in South Africa + summer in the UK: big Beemers are somewhat less expensive in South Africa).


We may differ on this, but you remain a fine customer!  :thumleft: ;) ;D
Chris

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Online Gérrard

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Re: Yamaha T7 Concept
« Reply #1156 on: December 04, 2019, 01:03:40 pm »
Daai T7's moet kak vinnig wees want ek het NOUNOG nie een gesien nie.
Nie fotos nie, n actual bike op die pad met n rider op hom wat hom ry
Al wat vinnig gaan wees aan die T7 is hoe dit jou bank balans laat sak...    :'(

Is nou drie jaar. Sal 'n baie spesiale bike moet wees.
...dis nooit te laat om n happy childhood te he nie !

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Offline IceCreamMan

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Re: Yamaha T7 Concept
« Reply #1157 on: December 04, 2019, 03:40:02 pm »
A motorcycle costs X to manufacture. That is static. (and includes R&D costs amortized across the anticipated run)

There are small transport costs to countries and dealers. This is probably negligible in the final price calculation.

The actual selling price is determined by factors such as taxes and thinking what the market can bear. Also I guess the number of middle men in the process. Possibly KTM have a better model.

T7 is produced in France.

The sticker price includes a number of factors that include factors like market it is being sold in, number of units anticipated to be sold at each price point etc. Clever ppl make a number and see where it goes.

KTM may have a better model in place. The T7 is relatively cheaper here I suspect because the cost of the engine and some components are carried over from a previous highly successful model. Same as the DL650/1000 range. The Strom now becoming like the citi golf in its longevity. REd , yellow , Blue, not green
« Last Edit: December 04, 2019, 03:40:27 pm by IceCreamMan »
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Offline m0lt3n

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Re: Yamaha T7 Concept
« Reply #1158 on: December 05, 2019, 07:21:47 am »
Daai T7's moet kak vinnig wees want ek het NOUNOG nie een gesien nie.
Nie fotos nie, n actual bike op die pad met n rider op hom wat hom ry
Al wat vinnig gaan wees aan die T7 is hoe dit jou bank balans laat sak...    :'(

Is nou drie jaar. Sal 'n baie spesiale bike moet wees.

Moenie so pessimisties wees nie.


Dit net 2 jaar en 363 dae

(vanaf bl 1 op die thread...
https://www.asphaltandrubber.com/bikes/yamaha-t7-concept/  )
Dooie visse gaan saam met die stroom...
 

Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: Yamaha T7 Concept
« Reply #1159 on: December 05, 2019, 04:55:55 pm »
I really believe that only Yamaha can hold people's attention for so long, without even bringing out a new model. :ricky: