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Author Topic: Yamaha T7 - No longer a Concept  (Read 255925 times)

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Offline KaTooMatt

Re: Yamaha T7 Concept
« Reply #2280 on: August 04, 2020, 11:40:47 pm »
If you are tired of waiting for 1 underpowered undersprung but reliable as shit Japanese bike you can go get a Honda Africa Twin for less than R 180 000 now. The 1100 motor helps it get to pip the 790's 70kW at 75kW but leaves the Yamaha's paltry 54kW in the dust. Then take into account the KTM's dry weight of 189kg (Just under 208kg calculated  wet) vs the Yamaha's 204kg wet weight the power advantage becomes more apparent. The Honda clocks a hefty 226kg.

I suspect a trick has been missed and the more natural competitor for this bike is the 690/701 with its 55kW engine and 149 kg dry weight. The question then is where do you want to ride. But clearly at the same price as a 790 or even an Africa Twin its priced itself out of its natural market.
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Offline big oil

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Re: Yamaha T7 Concept
« Reply #2281 on: August 05, 2020, 03:59:16 am »
Some valid points made, but which bikes can you count on to bring you home when you're 5,000 miles away?

Let me break this down, I'm hoping to ride to Prudhoe Bay, Alaska in the future, therefore, there's not a snowballs chance in hell I would be caught dead on any KTM product 5,000 miles from home.  The AT DCT?  Negative.  AT Manual?  Yes.  A current BMW product?  Nah.  A T7?  All day everyday!
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Offline Crankshaft

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Re: Yamaha T7 Concept
« Reply #2282 on: August 05, 2020, 07:07:40 am »
At the end of the day it comes to the riders choice. Do you want all the bells and whistles and gadgets, or do you want a bike that is plain and simple with no electronics, BUT the pricing should be in favour of the T7 and not the other way around.
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Offline MonkeyNot

Re: Yamaha T7 Concept
« Reply #2283 on: August 05, 2020, 07:22:05 am »
At the end of the day it comes to the riders choice. Do you want all the bells and whistles and gadgets, or do you want a bike that is plain and simple with no electronics, BUT the pricing should be in favour of the T7 and not the other way around.
Exactly!  It should have been $3500 cheaper than the 790R
At the prices mentioned above it's just ridiculous

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Offline Altie7deLaan

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Re: Yamaha T7 Concept
« Reply #2284 on: August 05, 2020, 07:34:50 am »
I find it hard to believe that Bidvest can dictate pricing to Yamaha.
So if it is ridiculously priced, it is because of the simple fact that it is allowed by Yamaha.

Just like poor servicing is allowed by KTM.
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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: Yamaha T7 Concept
« Reply #2285 on: August 05, 2020, 08:01:05 am »
If you are tired of waiting for 1 underpowered undersprung but reliable as shit Japanese bike you can go get a Honda Africa Twin for less than R 180 000 now. The 1100 motor helps it get to pip the 790's 70kW at 75kW but leaves the Yamaha's paltry 54kW in the dust. Then take into account the KTM's dry weight of 189kg (Just under 208kg calculated  wet) vs the Yamaha's 204kg wet weight the power advantage becomes more apparent. The Honda clocks a hefty 226kg.

I suspect a trick has been missed and the more natural competitor for this bike is the 690/701 with its 55kW engine and 149 kg dry weight. The question then is where do you want to ride. But clearly at the same price as a 790 or even an Africa Twin its priced itself out of its natural market.

How do you get to the 690/701 being a "more natural competitor" for the T7?  Because both are in the 700cc class? Because both make around the same power?

Is a KTM500/Husky501 then in the same class with Kawa's KLE500?

Your reasoning is not that sound.
 

Offline m0lt3n

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Re: Yamaha T7 Concept
« Reply #2286 on: August 05, 2020, 10:02:06 am »
Unsound reasoning is a common theme in this thread...
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Online Noneking

Re: Yamaha T7 Concept
« Reply #2287 on: August 05, 2020, 10:11:01 am »
If you are tired of waiting for 1 underpowered undersprung but reliable as shit Japanese bike you can go get a Honda Africa Twin for less than R 180 000 now. The 1100 motor helps it get to pip the 790's 70kW at 75kW but leaves the Yamaha's paltry 54kW in the dust. Then take into account the KTM's dry weight of 189kg (Just under 208kg calculated  wet) vs the Yamaha's 204kg wet weight the power advantage becomes more apparent. The Honda clocks a hefty 226kg.

I suspect a trick has been missed and the more natural competitor for this bike is the 690/701 with its 55kW engine and 149 kg dry weight. The question then is where do you want to ride. But clearly at the same price as a 790 or even an Africa Twin its priced itself out of its natural market.

How do you get to the 690/701 being a "more natural competitor" for the T7?  Because both are in the 700cc class? Because both make around the same power?

Is a KTM500/Husky501 then in the same class with Kawa's KLE500?

Your reasoning is not that sound.

Pot.... Kettle....... :peepwall:
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Offline trevo

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Re: Yamaha T7 Concept
« Reply #2288 on: August 05, 2020, 10:15:06 am »
Is a KTM500/Husky501 then in the same class with Kawa's KLE500?

Yes it is, just more superior  :eek7:

« Last Edit: August 05, 2020, 10:15:47 am by trevo »
DILLIGAF
 

Offline ChrisL - DUSTRIDERS

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Re: Yamaha T7 Concept
« Reply #2289 on: August 05, 2020, 10:43:37 am »
Some valid points made, but which bikes can you count on to bring you home when you're 5,000 miles away?

Let me break this down, I'm hoping to ride to Prudhoe Bay, Alaska in the future, therefore, there's not a snowballs chance in hell I would be caught dead on any KTM product 5,000 miles from home.  The AT DCT?  Negative.  AT Manual?  Yes.  A current BMW product?  Nah.  A T7?  All day everyday!
You have a 1150 GSA perfect tool for the trip!! :deal: :thumleft: :drif:
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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: Yamaha T7 Concept
« Reply #2290 on: August 05, 2020, 03:40:52 pm »
Look, the argument goes that, because it has less electronics and less suspension travel, the Yamaha should be cheaper.

The fact that the Yamaha has obviously better quality components, as witnessed in no component claims in the year that it's been running, it is superior in open road cruising due to no buffeting,

It has low-down tractability that the opposition cannot even match with the electronics [which you pay extra for ;) ].

The KTM is way overpriced, considering most of it's components is made in India and China. This shows as the fogging tablet screens, broken shocks and strings of clutch failures shows.

Of course, today's "must have it now, won't keep it long" crowd is becoming a forceful voice in defending the under-par stuff they buy.

Just Google "KTM 790 adventure problems".

Don't defend Chinese crap.





 

Offline Roadhawg

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Re: Yamaha T7 Concept
« Reply #2291 on: August 05, 2020, 03:57:45 pm »
Look, the argument goes that, because it has less electronics and less suspension travel, the Yamaha should be cheaper.

The fact that the Yamaha has obviously better quality components, as witnessed in no component claims in the year that it's been running, it is superior in open road cruising due to no buffeting,

It has low-down tractability that the opposition cannot even match with the electronics [which you pay extra for ;) ].

The KTM is way overpriced, considering most of it's components is made in India and China. This shows as the fogging tablet screens, broken shocks and strings of clutch failures shows.

Of course, today's "must have it now, won't keep it long" crowd is becoming a forceful voice in defending the under-par stuff they buy.

Just Google "KTM 790 adventure problems".

Don't defend Chinese crap.

Have you ridden a 790?


I have and even coming from a 1290, it's got plenty low end power. What you're saying just isn't true.   You can turn every bit of electronics off on it if you'd like, and then have a more powerful, better handling motorcycle.  So yes, it does, and should cost more.

Just google "*any bike name* problems"  and you'll have a field day. The internet vastly over represents problems compared to happy customers who are out riding, on any given motorcycle.
 

Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: Yamaha T7 Concept
« Reply #2292 on: August 05, 2020, 04:09:14 pm »
Look, the argument goes that, because it has less electronics and less suspension travel, the Yamaha should be cheaper.

The fact that the Yamaha has obviously better quality components, as witnessed in no component claims in the year that it's been running, it is superior in open road cruising due to no buffeting,

It has low-down tractability that the opposition cannot even match with the electronics [which you pay extra for ;) ].

The KTM is way overpriced, considering most of it's components is made in India and China. This shows as the fogging tablet screens, broken shocks and strings of clutch failures shows.

Of course, today's "must have it now, won't keep it long" crowd is becoming a forceful voice in defending the under-par stuff they buy.

Just Google "KTM 790 adventure problems".

Don't defend Chinese crap.

Have you ridden a 790?


I have and even coming from a 1290, it's got plenty low end power. What you're saying just isn't true.   You can turn every bit of electronics off on it if you'd like, and then have a more powerful, better handling motorcycle.  So yes, it does, and should cost more.

Just google "*any bike name* problems"  and you'll have a field day. The internet vastly over represents problems compared to happy customers who are out riding, on any given motorcycle.

Why don't you Google "yamaha T7 problems" and see what you get? :biggrin:

And before you say that the T7 has hardly been out for a year, remember that the 790 needed far less than a year for the claims to start coming in.......
 

Offline Altie7deLaan

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Re: Yamaha T7 Concept
« Reply #2293 on: August 05, 2020, 05:41:14 pm »
Look, the argument goes that, because it has less electronics and less suspension travel, the Yamaha should be cheaper.

The fact that the Yamaha has obviously better quality components, as witnessed in no component claims in the year that it's been running, it is superior in open road cruising due to no buffeting,

It has low-down tractability that the opposition cannot even match with the electronics [which you pay extra for ;) ].

The KTM is way overpriced, considering most of it's components is made in India and China. This shows as the fogging tablet screens, broken shocks and strings of clutch failures shows.

Of course, today's "must have it now, won't keep it long" crowd is becoming a forceful voice in defending the under-par stuff they buy.

Just Google "KTM 790 adventure problems".

Don't defend Chinese crap.

Have you ridden a 790?


I have and even coming from a 1290, it's got plenty low end power. What you're saying just isn't true.   You can turn every bit of electronics off on it if you'd like, and then have a more powerful, better handling motorcycle.  So yes, it does, and should cost more.

Just google "*any bike name* problems"  and you'll have a field day. The internet vastly over represents problems compared to happy customers who are out riding, on any given motorcycle.

Why don't you Google "yamaha T7 problems" and see what you get? :biggrin:

And before you say that the T7 has hardly been out for a year, remember that the 790 needed far less than a year for the claims to start coming in.......

Tit for tat.....
Yamaha have used a couple of there allocated M1 engines in motogp within the first 2 races.
Do a search on google and see how little articles there are on Yamaha losing  M1 engines, and see how many articles there are about being Yamaha being back on track and leading the series.

The T7 is build solid with more basic engineering, this basic engineering might be more reliable than more complicated stuff, but sure as hell it is cheaper to fabricate.
From what I have seen here, very little people here interested in the T7 if the pricing is 180/190  ish or more.
Which begs the question, is this bike very good,  or is it just good value for money when it is pitched into a market, a whole lot cheaper than a 790?
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Offline Dwerg

Re: Yamaha T7 Concept
« Reply #2294 on: August 05, 2020, 06:31:03 pm »
Why don't you Google "yamaha T7 problems" and see what you get? :biggrin:

And before you say that the T7 has hardly been out for a year, remember that the 790 needed far less than a year for the claims to start coming in.......

I watched a video, didn't post the link because at the time I thought there is enough conceived bashing on here. But now that you ask, there were a few problems in the video, one of which was the bike kept cutting out. Then watched I think Swiz guys video where he was talking about how the subframe (or something) almost acts like steg pegs but as he rotated back, he kept catching the side stand on his boot, pushing it down. He didn't notice or mention it but it's obviously not ideal and might cause the bike cut out. Just saying, all bikes have problems
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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: Yamaha T7 Concept
« Reply #2295 on: August 05, 2020, 07:03:08 pm »
OK, now that I have the whole KTM fanclub on here, let me give my honest opinion.

This bike, the T7, will undoubtedly be another topclass product from Mr. Reliable themselves, but there are a few things......

Firstly, it uses the tested and tried engine from the roadbike, thus no engine development cost specific to this model.

It offers fewer rider aids, another cost factor in it's pricing favour.

Suspension is fairly average, so another saving over the 790.

Yes, I'll be honest, I do believe that the T7, like overseas, should be cheaper to buy than the 790.

And.......in a head to head competition, the 790 will undoubtedly beat the T7 quite easily, as it is both better suspended and more powerful.

But......will the Katoom finish the race? :pot:
 

Offline Dwerg

Re: Yamaha T7 Concept
« Reply #2296 on: August 05, 2020, 07:18:14 pm »
Just because your KTM is white doesn't mean you're not a closet fan boy  :pot:
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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: Yamaha T7 Concept
« Reply #2297 on: August 05, 2020, 07:24:42 pm »
Just because your KTM is white doesn't mean you're not a closet fan boy  :pot:

It has a Yamaha sticker on........40 000 problem-free kilos so far. :biggrin:
 

Offline Altie7deLaan

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Re: Yamaha T7 Concept
« Reply #2298 on: August 05, 2020, 08:33:29 pm »
Problem is the damn young people (buying sector ) today, you need to know right from the start which finger you nominate to induce vomiting, and which to use to test your prostate.
You never switch from this point on.
They need electronics to help them cope and/or decide.
Its a sad day for Japanese adv biking, when you need to invite a guy like Pol to come along and  "add more oil to your std shocks" , and then proceed to shoot a "stunt video" to introduce more excitement to your product........

What is the answer then?
Buy a accident damaged mt 07, Take the "free spirited" motor and loom/ECU, build your own frame with the necessary geometry and gussets, splash on some bouncy bits from mr WP and a longish range tank, with a decent subframe....
Eish, why can we not just buy it...
« Last Edit: August 05, 2020, 08:42:55 pm by Altie7deLaan »
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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: Yamaha T7 Concept
« Reply #2299 on: August 05, 2020, 09:55:10 pm »
Problem is the damn young people (buying sector ) today, you need to know right from the start which finger you nominate to induce vomiting, and which to use to test your prostate.
You never switch from this point on.
They need electronics to help them cope and/or decide.
Its a sad day for Japanese adv biking, when you need to invite a guy like Pol to come along and  "add more oil to your std shocks" , and then proceed to shoot a "stunt video" to introduce more excitement to your product........

What is the answer then?
Buy a accident damaged mt 07, Take the "free spirited" motor and loom/ECU, build your own frame with the necessary geometry and gussets, splash on some bouncy bits from mr WP and a longish range tank, with a decent subframe....
Eish, why can we not just buy it...

Well, Pol's video on the bike with the added oil to the standard shocks, suddenly make Chris Birch on the KTM's look pedestrian. Yes, when you need to invite a guy like Chris to come along to spice up your product. :imaposer: :imaposer: