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Offline Kelevra

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Re: Yamaha T7 - No longer a Concept
« Reply #2940 on: October 01, 2020, 07:58:42 am »
Dwerg, if they were both the same price, the T7 would lose out quite a lot.

I say this based on, and it does not matter whether someone like myself hates electronic aids on a bike, it is still value added.

Yamaha could maybe have made the T7 available as a "X" model, also laden with e-aid like the 790, as that appeals to a different market.

Fanboy stuff aside, personally I would take the T7 if it was the same price as the 790. I say this with long and affordable ownership in mind.

Exactly!  :ricky:

Also rhymes with boring.
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Offline husky

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Re: Yamaha T7 - No longer a Concept
« Reply #2941 on: October 01, 2020, 08:42:42 am »
Looking at the specs (well that matter to me - weight, seat height & fuel; maybe price even?), very evenly matched.  The video review comment about the troublesome electronic aids on the 790 is concerning. What is real SA experience around this and can they be circumvented or deactivated?  At my riding pace I would readily give up the lectronics for a more basic (and reliable?) model.

With bones getting older, distances to even gravel roads getting further maybe I need to consider an upgrade on my delivery bike (I promise Mr SARS) that is more modern and comfortable than my old iron KTM 640 Adv.  But one that I will struggle to pick up if it falls over?
 

Offline m0lt3n

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Re: Yamaha T7 - No longer a Concept
« Reply #2942 on: October 01, 2020, 09:02:04 am »
Looking at the specs (well that matter to me - weight, seat height & fuel; maybe price even?), very evenly matched.  The video review comment about the troublesome electronic aids on the 790 is concerning. What is real SA experience around this and can they be circumvented or deactivated?  At my riding pace I would readily give up the lectronics for a more basic (and reliable?) model.

With bones getting older, distances to even gravel roads getting further maybe I need to consider an upgrade on my delivery bike (I promise Mr SARS) that is more modern and comfortable than my old iron KTM 640 Adv.  But one that I will struggle to pick up if it falls over?

You can unplug the dash of the 790 and it still rides.
To sum up the question what electronics failing will do to the bike....


I wonder if this is applicable on the T7?
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Offline sidetrack

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Re: Yamaha T7 - No longer a Concept
« Reply #2943 on: October 01, 2020, 09:16:21 am »
Looking at the specs (well that matter to me - weight, seat height & fuel; maybe price even?), very evenly matched.  The video review comment about the troublesome electronic aids on the 790 is concerning. What is real SA experience around this and can they be circumvented or deactivated?  At my riding pace I would readily give up the lectronics for a more basic (and reliable?) model.

With bones getting older, distances to even gravel roads getting further maybe I need to consider an upgrade on my delivery bike (I promise Mr SARS) that is more modern and comfortable than my old iron KTM 640 Adv.  But one that I will struggle to pick up if it falls over?

You can unplug the dash of the 790 and it still rides.
To sum up the question what electronics failing will do to the bike....


I wonder if this is applicable on the T7?
I'm sure the high tech LCD dash on the Yamaha wont leave you stranded if it fails or is unplugged  :lol8:
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Offline Dwerg

Re: Yamaha T7 - No longer a Concept
« Reply #2944 on: October 01, 2020, 09:18:22 am »
I have no mechanical sympathy what so ever and all my KTMs have been as reliable as any other bike Iíve owned. Maybe Iíve been lucky or maybe people just like to jump on the ktm atm band wagon. I am meticulous about maintenance and servicing though (apart from lubing a chain).

My 690 (most unreliable DS bike in the world according to the intenet) is 6 years old this month and apart from rockers hasnít given me any problems. Thatís a bike that spent most of itís life being ridden hard and crashed extensively. Itís been flipped, tumbled sideways, slid, you name it and it only ever had cosmetic damage.

Sorry I donít mean to talk KTM but just saying reliability is not a USP exclusive to Yamaha
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Offline sidetrack

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Re: Yamaha T7 - No longer a Concept
« Reply #2945 on: October 01, 2020, 09:19:59 am »
I have no mechanical sympathy what so ever and all my KTMs have been as reliable as any other bike Iíve owned. Maybe Iíve been lucky or maybe people just like to jump on the ktm atm band wagon. I am meticulous about maintenance and servicing though (apart from lubing a chain).

My 690 (most unreliable DS bike in the world according to the intenet) is 6 years old this month and apart from rockers hasnít given me any problems. Thatís a bike that spent most of itís life being ridden hard and crashed extensively. Itís been flipped, tumbled sideways, slid, you name it and it only ever had cosmetic damage.

Sorry I donít mean to talk KTM but just saying reliability is not a USP exclusive to Yamaha
How many km's on the 690 ?
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Offline Dwerg

Re: Yamaha T7 - No longer a Concept
« Reply #2946 on: October 01, 2020, 09:34:02 am »
Not a lot yet but 99% of them were done in places where few other adv bikes will venture. And ridden hard. There is a WD that clocked just under 100 000 on his 690 before it was taken out by a car.

Again, I donít mean to make this a KTM discussion, I am just saying that reliability is relative.

How many kms have you ridden in the last say 10 years? Enough to need Ďfamedí Yamaha reliability?
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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: Yamaha T7 - No longer a Concept
« Reply #2947 on: October 01, 2020, 09:34:30 am »
Dwerg, if they were both the same price, the T7 would lose out quite a lot.

I say this based on, and it does not matter whether someone like myself hates electronic aids on a bike, it is still value added.

Yamaha could maybe have made the T7 available as a "X" model, also laden with e-aid like the 790, as that appeals to a different market.

Fanboy stuff aside, personally I would take the T7 if it was the same price as the 790. I say this with long and affordable ownership in mind.

Exactly!  :ricky:

Also rhymes with boring.

Ask Burp whether having to cut short your trip because of a fucked clutch is so non-boring......... >:D :pot:

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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: Yamaha T7 - No longer a Concept
« Reply #2948 on: October 01, 2020, 09:41:05 am »
Not a lot yet but 99% of them were done in places where few other adv bikes will venture. And ridden hard. There is a WD that clocked just under 100 000 on his 690 before it was taken out by a car.

Again, I donít mean to make this a KTM discussion, I am just saying that reliability is relative.

How many kms have you ridden in the last say 10 years? Enough to need Ďfamedí Yamaha reliability?

The point is that KTM fans on here is trying to remove reliability as a bonus point, to suit their make.

But in our sport, it remains a hugely important factor, and Yamaha is well documented as the most reliable of all brands in the world.

When it comes to the T7 it has an extra edge in that the engine has been thoroughly tried and tested by the street hooligans on their MT's.

Why do you pay more for a boring Toyota in the 2nd hand market?  Because they're exciting? Because they're pretty? No, simply because like Yamaha, they have established a proven reliability track record.
 

Offline sidetrack

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Re: Yamaha T7 - No longer a Concept
« Reply #2949 on: October 01, 2020, 09:41:38 am »
Not a lot yet but 99% of them were done in places where few other adv bikes will venture. And ridden hard. There is a WD that clocked just under 100 000 on his 690 before it was taken out by a car.

Again, I donít mean to make this a KTM discussion, I am just saying that reliability is relative.

How many kms have you ridden in the last say 10 years? Enough to need Ďfamedí Yamaha reliability?
No I have two small kids and can almost never ride, right now for me reliability means the bike starting first time once it stood for 2 months at a time  :( Anyway I asked about the 690 km's because when I buy a 2nd lighter bike for more technical rides it would be either that or a 250L as I would most likely need to finance so needs to be newer than 10 years (not looking for a high maintenance 500 etc)
Little by little, one travels far
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Offline Dwerg

Re: Yamaha T7 - No longer a Concept
« Reply #2950 on: October 01, 2020, 09:48:27 am »
Not a lot yet but 99% of them were done in places where few other adv bikes will venture. And ridden hard. There is a WD that clocked just under 100 000 on his 690 before it was taken out by a car.

Again, I donít mean to make this a KTM discussion, I am just saying that reliability is relative.

How many kms have you ridden in the last say 10 years? Enough to need Ďfamedí Yamaha reliability?
No I have two small kids and can almost never ride, right now for me reliability means the bike starting first time once it stood for 2 months at a time  :( Anyway I asked about the 690 km's because when I buy a 2nd lighter bike for more technical rides it would be either that or a 250L as I would most likely need to finance so needs to be newer than 10 years (not looking for a high maintenance 500 etc)
Sorry didnít mean it as a dig at you, just saying reality is that none of us a world travelers and unless you have a 150km daily commute, youíre unlikely to put even 50 000kms on a bike. I think my 690 has something like 35k on the clock and I would buy it second hand in a heartbeat but only because I know how it was maintained. Iíd be hesitant to buy one if I didnít know the history

After getting my 790, the 690 stood for almost a year and fired up first press of the starter
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Offline BuRP

Re: Yamaha T7 - No longer a Concept
« Reply #2951 on: October 01, 2020, 10:19:46 am »
Ask Burp Xpat whether having to cut short your trip because of a fucked clutch is so non-boring.........

Fixed that bit for you, I never had a problem with a clutch...
... yet!  :P

'Electronics' is a name also for any sidestand switch, and under Eu4 (& 5) this may not be a paperclip-bridgeable thingy but must be some cam-bus pulsetrain-sending magoofter .... which will leave your bike dead if it fails, and yes, that's also on a Yammie these days.
Somewhat same for all the environmental rubbish found these days, and taking all this off or bypassing it will make your bike more reliable for when venturing remote and 'out there'. I did all this to my 701 because of all the bad stories I read on the net, however recently it died due to the sidestand switch (which I had left do do 'later', looked fine-enough to me) playing up - luckily it started again.
But once at home I immediately fixed that, a mission in itself as the positioning (and orientation, do NOT forget this bit!) of the magnet is super-sensitive, within 1 millimeter! (and no, I'm not kidding here, I almost gave up on this bastardly contraption). In comparison the 790's switches were a breeze, quickquick!
Point here is, all bikes by law have some shit on/in them which when it plays up may or will stop the bike from running, and one is advised to learn about these specific Achilles Heels before venturing out remote, as preventative fixing this in a comfy workshop with coffee is immeasurably better compared to phoning a friend, IF there's any network reception that is  :-[

And Dan, love your honesty above btw, but this even goes for the T7 or Yammies in general!  :thumleft:
« Last Edit: October 01, 2020, 10:23:17 am by BuRP »
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Offline Dwerg

Re: Yamaha T7 - No longer a Concept
« Reply #2952 on: October 01, 2020, 10:26:58 am »
Not a lot yet but 99% of them were done in places where few other adv bikes will venture. And ridden hard. There is a WD that clocked just under 100 000 on his 690 before it was taken out by a car.

Again, I donít mean to make this a KTM discussion, I am just saying that reliability is relative.

How many kms have you ridden in the last say 10 years? Enough to need Ďfamedí Yamaha reliability?

The point is that KTM fans on here is trying to remove reliability as a bonus point, to suit their make.

But in our sport, it remains a hugely important factor, and Yamaha is well documented as the most reliable of all brands in the world.

When it comes to the T7 it has an extra edge in that the engine has been thoroughly tried and tested by the street hooligans on their MT's.

Why do you pay more for a boring Toyota in the 2nd hand market?  Because they're exciting? Because they're pretty? No, simply because like Yamaha, they have established a proven reliability track record.
Itís not to suit our make, Iím not even brand loyal, in fact if anything I am a Honda guy. Itís just to point out that reliability is not exactly worlds apart as some make it out to be. And you should know a lot of KTM issues stem from how they are used. Generally speaking, their owners are hoons who really put them through their paces
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Offline funky_munky

Re: Yamaha T7 - No longer a Concept
« Reply #2953 on: October 01, 2020, 11:08:50 am »
Not a lot yet but 99% of them were done in places where few other adv bikes will venture. And ridden hard. There is a WD that clocked just under 100 000 on his 690 before it was taken out by a car.

Again, I donít mean to make this a KTM discussion, I am just saying that reliability is relative.

How many kms have you ridden in the last say 10 years? Enough to need Ďfamedí Yamaha reliability?
No I have two small kids and can almost never ride, right now for me reliability means the bike starting first time once it stood for 2 months at a time  :( Anyway I asked about the 690 km's because when I buy a 2nd lighter bike for more technical rides it would be either that or a 250L as I would most likely need to finance so needs to be newer than 10 years (not looking for a high maintenance 500 etc)

Sorry didnít mean it as a dig at you, just saying reality is that none of us a world travelers and unless you have a 150km daily commute, youíre unlikely to put even 50 000kms on a bike. I think my 690 has something like 35k on the clock and I would buy it second hand in a heartbeat but only because I know how it was maintained. Iíd be hesitant to buy one if I didnít know the history

After getting my 790, the 690 stood for almost a year and fired up first press of the starter

I have pretty much the same experience, I am on my second 690. First one I put 50 k km on, 2nd is now on 11 k km. 790 is on 9 k km. I would buy a 690 in a heart beat. These are pretty decent engines, well documented and easy to work on. Reliability is a non issue. Any bike can have problems, just the luck of the draw if you manage to pick up a dud and if you dont maintain it properly then sorry for you!

 

Offline IanTheTooth

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Re: Yamaha T7 - No longer a Concept
« Reply #2954 on: October 01, 2020, 12:13:12 pm »
What do you think Kawasaki is going to show us on the 23rd November and do you think it will add an extra choice to the few we have so far?
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Offline IDR

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Re: Yamaha T7 - No longer a Concept
« Reply #2955 on: October 01, 2020, 02:20:49 pm »
What do you think Kawasaki is going to show us on the 23rd November and do you think it will add an extra choice to the few we have so far?

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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: Yamaha T7 - No longer a Concept
« Reply #2956 on: October 01, 2020, 04:16:55 pm »
Not a lot yet but 99% of them were done in places where few other adv bikes will venture. And ridden hard. There is a WD that clocked just under 100 000 on his 690 before it was taken out by a car.

Again, I donít mean to make this a KTM discussion, I am just saying that reliability is relative.

How many kms have you ridden in the last say 10 years? Enough to need Ďfamedí Yamaha reliability?
No I have two small kids and can almost never ride, right now for me reliability means the bike starting first time once it stood for 2 months at a time  :( Anyway I asked about the 690 km's because when I buy a 2nd lighter bike for more technical rides it would be either that or a 250L as I would most likely need to finance so needs to be newer than 10 years (not looking for a high maintenance 500 etc)

Sorry didnít mean it as a dig at you, just saying reality is that none of us a world travelers and unless you have a 150km daily commute, youíre unlikely to put even 50 000kms on a bike. I think my 690 has something like 35k on the clock and I would buy it second hand in a heartbeat but only because I know how it was maintained. Iíd be hesitant to buy one if I didnít know the history

After getting my 790, the 690 stood for almost a year and fired up first press of the starter

I have pretty much the same experience, I am on my second 690. First one I put 50 k km on, 2nd is now on 11 k km. 790 is on 9 k km. I would buy a 690 in a heart beat. These are pretty decent engines, well documented and easy to work on. Reliability is a non issue. Any bike can have problems, just the luck of the draw if you manage to pick up a dud and if you dont maintain it properly then sorry for you!

To be honest, some brands certainly have more "duds" than others. :deal:
 

Offline Odd Dog

Re: Yamaha T7 - No longer a Concept
« Reply #2957 on: October 01, 2020, 04:35:30 pm »
Dwerg, if they were both the same price, the T7 would lose out quite a lot.

I say this based on, and it does not matter whether someone like myself hates electronic aids on a bike, it is still value added.

Yamaha could maybe have made the T7 available as a "X" model, also laden with e-aid like the 790, as that appeals to a different market.

Fanboy stuff aside, personally I would take the T7 if it was the same price as the 790. I say this with long and affordable ownership in mind.

Exactly!  :ricky:

Also rhymes with boring.

Well after riding bikes for over 56yrs, racing MX for 2 of those and Enduro for about 10, boring is probably what I should be looking at. I have also had my share of KTMs, the best in my book is still the 300's 2Ts. 
Boring, think you can ride a T7 to it's full capabilities or the bike you have now????
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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: Yamaha T7 - No longer a Concept
« Reply #2958 on: October 01, 2020, 04:41:11 pm »
It is about perceptions.

I have never had anyone see me as a good rider when on the XT.

On the 701 I have had several people make remarks like; "Wow, jy vat nie kak nie", en dis net omdat hulle sien ek ry n 701, nie HOE ek ry nie.

As jy n "Ready-to-race' ry, moet jy mos n racer wees, of hoe? :imaposer:
 

Offline Altie7deLaan

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Re: Yamaha T7 - No longer a Concept
« Reply #2959 on: October 01, 2020, 05:13:21 pm »
As dit regtig waar is, dan dink meeste mense nou Pol is n boring fart.... :peepwall:
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