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Offline Lem

Re: BMW G310GS
« Reply #20 on: November 10, 2016, 07:17:50 am »
+1

if I can ad to what TheBear is saying...

The first misconception we need to clear out is this issue around BMW pricing. Their new bike prices, prices of spares & servicing is absolutely in line with the rest.

Mainstream manufacturers setting up factories in places like India, Romania & Russia is the way of the world. Toyota Etios, Honda Brio range, Honda Ballade, Honda HRV, Suzuki's whole car range, and the whole Renault Sandero range is currently built there. It makes sense due to cheaper labour, especially when building basic transport for the masses. When the original Mini was launched around 1960...it was made in Britain, but it was priced at something like 495 pounds. Now that sounded all good...but British Leyland lost money on every single one ever sold, because they cost too much to build.

As said in my previous post, building bikes of this size is unchartered territory for BMW. Where this is made...in heavily congested India, bikes of around 300cc or less that gets manufactured & sold in millions is the norm. For BMW rather partnering up with such a manufacturer who specialises in this type of thing is the right thing to do.

If they set up a German factory from scratch that only builds G310 range...they might glue them together well, but they will have to price themselves out of the market due to simple economics.  :thumleft:

I fully agree with everything you say, but if the bike is not really a BMW then it is dishonest to cash in on "the GS branding".
And, BMW did built small bikes once, they started early on with a 250 single. Not new territory.

Once again, this is the way of the world.

A Jeep Renegade is a remodelled Fiat Panda. A Toyota Yaris is a Daihatsu. A Toyota 86 is a Subaru. Fiat Fullback is a Mitsubishi Triton,  Merc C-class diesel shares it's engine block with a Nissan Micra. I can on and on.

The 250cc BMW built several decades ago was also due to certain legislative reasons of the time, not only about bums on seats. It was also pretty much the same frame size of bike than their usual bigger stuff. They didn't make it as a mass produced, economical model in a foreign minimum wage factory. 

Can you imagine the fuckup if you took for instance the current F800 frame or bigger 1200 range and fitted it with the 310cc?  :imaposer: it would cost more and it would be terrible to ride.

In today's times we also must bear in mind the concept of "made under licence".  Although we now joke about this, this is not a Bajaj Pulsar (which is a blerrie good little bike, by the way :thumleft:) with a BMW badge slapped on. BMW would have helped developed and tweaked the bike range to the tee of what they want. They would also set up the factory and processes up to their required standards.

It will be a good bike  :thumleft:
« Last Edit: November 10, 2016, 07:32:02 am by Lem »
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Offline Pavlovski

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Re: BMW G310GS
« Reply #21 on: November 10, 2016, 08:38:53 am »
The G310GS sure promises to be a great bike for beginners and city commuters.....imho
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Offline TheBear

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Re: BMW G310GS
« Reply #22 on: November 10, 2016, 11:40:28 am »
+1

if I can ad to what TheBear is saying...

The first misconception we need to clear out is this issue around BMW pricing. Their new bike prices, prices of spares & servicing is absolutely in line with the rest.

Mainstream manufacturers setting up factories in places like India, Romania & Russia is the way of the world. Toyota Etios, Honda Brio range, Honda Ballade, Honda HRV, Suzuki's whole car range, and the whole Renault Sandero range is currently built there. It makes sense due to cheaper labour, especially when building basic transport for the masses. When the original Mini was launched around 1960...it was made in Britain, but it was priced at something like 495 pounds. Now that sounded all good...but British Leyland lost money on every single one ever sold, because they cost too much to build.

As said in my previous post, building bikes of this size is unchartered territory for BMW. Where this is made...in heavily congested India, bikes of around 300cc or less that gets manufactured & sold in millions is the norm. For BMW rather partnering up with such a manufacturer who specialises in this type of thing is the right thing to do.

If they set up a German factory from scratch that only builds G310 range...they might glue them together well, but they will have to price themselves out of the market due to simple economics.  :thumleft:

I fully agree with everything you say, but if the bike is not really a BMW then it is dishonest to cash in on "the GS branding".
And, BMW did built small bikes once, they started early on with a 250 single. Not new territory.

Like Toyota in Australia and New Zealand "cashing in" on the Toyota name for South African build cars?

Nah Dan, globalisation is nothing new.
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Offline 2-Stroke

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Re: BMW G310GS
« Reply #23 on: November 11, 2016, 07:13:52 am »
According to BMW, this is not a rehashed TVS. It was designed from scratch by BMW engineers in Berlin. The machinery and tooling in the production line was designed and built by Germans. The production line is in its own section of the TVS factory and it is exclusively for the 310 range. It looks well made when you see it up close, but we will only know for sure when it is launched.

On another front, the second biggest motorcycle manufacturer in India (after Hero) is Honda. Most of the Hondas in showroom floors today either come from India or China. The third biggest motorcycle manufacturer in India is Yamaha, and yes, many of the models in Yamaha dealers come from there. Bajaj build the KTM Duke/RC 125, 200 and 390, and those are spectacular motorcycles. Mahindra have a Moto3 racer that has won two world championship races this year.

Many Triumphs and Ducatis are built in Thailand. Engines for the BMW G450 endure bike were built by the Kymco factory.

Your fancy smart phone, tablet and laptop were either built in China or Malaysia. Many of the parts on the International Space Station come from China.

To sum it up, I wouldn't pass judgement too quickly. Let's see when it's launched.
 

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Re: BMW G310GS
« Reply #24 on: November 11, 2016, 08:06:18 am »
Many Triumphs and Ducatis are built in Thailand. Engines for the BMW G450 endure bike were built by the Kymco factory in TAIWAN.
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Offline Gérrard

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Re: BMW G310GS
« Reply #25 on: November 11, 2016, 08:34:39 am »
Looks like we here in the sticks are missing something.... I see there is a Suzuki 250 V-Strom on its way too.

I like this small bike thing, but 400 cc would be nice, although I suppose today's 300's puts out more power that my CB400 Twin back in the day.

That bike was everything... tourer, one and two up, track bike, scrambler, DS etc. And with its size it was manageable.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2016, 08:40:12 am by Gérrard »
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Offline boland

Re: BMW G310GS
« Reply #26 on: November 11, 2016, 08:43:29 am »
I think all these 250 - 300 cc are aimed at city commuters. It's a very big market in Europe and such, just realized that again in France recently. Can't think that any of these bikes were really built with adv riding in mind and I don't think they will be any good at it.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2016, 08:44:21 am by boland »
 

Offline jaybiker

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Re: BMW G310GS
« Reply #27 on: November 11, 2016, 09:10:58 am »
Ray Davis (Kinks) wrote "its a mixed up muddled up shook up world". In a perfect motorcycle world there would be no reason for manufacturers to go global because wages and employment conditions would be equal the world over.

Then you would get Hondas made only in Japan, Triumphs only in England, Ducatis in Italy, BMW's in Gemany, and the far East and South America could design and produce machines of their own..
 But that's unlikely to become reality, and in this shook up world, is it too far fetched to imagine a future in which Zongshen manufacture will be farmed out to Germany to take advantage of the cheap labour?  :lol8:


 
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Offline LanC

Re: BMW G310GS
« Reply #28 on: November 11, 2016, 09:35:37 am »
These little bikes are like the modern compact suv, looks the part but 99% of them will never venture off the asphalt.
 

Offline billy-joe

Re: BMW G310GS
« Reply #29 on: November 11, 2016, 10:22:25 am »
i think it is a good idea except for the wheels and styling.  for a long time now people have been calling for a smaller DS bike.  if you could pack a weekends worth of luggage on it, it would be perfect for 99% of the riding we all do unless you all are jumping your bikes on an MX track.  i think its perfect for exploring lesotho and back roads.  Sure it wont run at 160 + but i'm over that and its obviously not designed for it.  I see Kawasaki are bringing out a 300 too, looks good with similar specs.  looks good too.
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Offline 1ougat

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Re: BMW G310GS
« Reply #30 on: November 11, 2016, 11:09:32 am »
I see we also getting a Versys 300 .... must be a really kak idea of hoe se ek Dan ?


Funny how every manufacturer are getting this kak idea at the same time ... what is the world coming too  :biggrin: :biggrin:

I say bring it on .... can become the best kak idea BMW ever had ... like the 800G/S ... that was a really kak idea ... right  :pot:
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Offline 1ougat

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Re: BMW G310GS
« Reply #31 on: November 11, 2016, 10:23:47 pm »



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Offline WildWood

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Re: BMW G310GS
« Reply #32 on: November 12, 2016, 12:14:59 pm »
BM badge is no guarantee of BM quality. I had the misfortune of buying the BM650 scooter when they launched about 4 years ago. Turned out it was made by Kymco, cost twice as much of the equivalent Kymco but fell apart and spent half its life at the BM dealer waiting for parts from the east. Eventually when my threats got to much for them BM bought it back from me and stopped importing the crap.
Not saying the same will happen with the 310 but don't believe them for a moment that the eastern imports are the same as the Euro jobs.
When they launched the GS800 they co launched the GS650 (actually an 800cc ) that was nowhere near the 800 in quality. Essentially the same bike, just manufactured in the east.
 

Offline 2-Stroke

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Re: BMW G310GS
« Reply #33 on: November 12, 2016, 11:40:29 pm »
BM badge is no guarantee of BM quality. I had the misfortune of buying the BM650 scooter when they launched about 4 years ago. Turned out it was made by Kymco, cost twice as much of the equivalent Kymco but fell apart and spent half its life at the BM dealer waiting for parts from the east. Eventually when my threats got to much for them BM bought it back from me and stopped importing the crap.
Not saying the same will happen with the 310 but don't believe them for a moment that the eastern imports are the same as the Euro jobs.
When they launched the GS800 they co launched the GS650 (actually an 800cc ) that was nowhere near the 800 in quality. Essentially the same bike, just manufactured in the east.

The C650 engine was based on the 650GS engine, not a Kymco. It was built in the Kymco factory and that's it. Also, they didn't stop making it, South Africans just don't buy maxiscooters. Sorry about your misfortune though.
 

Offline Tom van Brits

Re: BMW G310GS
« Reply #34 on: November 13, 2016, 01:02:25 pm »
Would make a real nice commuter, and should sell like hot cakes I think.
No one can argue; BMW service is really good compared to some other brands and they hold their value much better.
Look at the GS650's, 2005 models with 60+k/km on it still sell for R40K+.
Compare that with a KLR (I had 2 x 2010 models) and you are lucky if you get R30K. Yes people advertise higher but ask them what they honestly got for it in the end.

The Indian and Chinese markets are like someone already stated being used because of labor rates and laws.
Would you feel any different if the bikes were made 'under licence' in South Africa? 

This is what the European market dictates, small capacity bikes. We get what they want, I market is very small compared to them.
Still I think there is a couple of exciting models in the 'small capacity lineup' like the Versys 300 which is a twin and if it is using the Ninja 300 motor (maybe turned for torque) it would be an absolute great bike! That little twin is a gem, and it leaves a KLR650 behind from start to top-end and is great fun in the twisties!

BMW has got a winner if priced right.
 

Offline WildWood

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Re: BMW G310GS
« Reply #35 on: November 13, 2016, 05:32:59 pm »
this bike is an insult to the market.
As said before: Susuki Djebel & Yammie TTR250 both two decades old had the same power + real suspension and weighed 30% less.
 

Offline ss

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Re: BMW G310GS
« Reply #36 on: November 15, 2016, 09:01:20 am »
Maybe this bike will kak lekker to ride.
 

Online teebag

Re: BMW G310GS
« Reply #37 on: November 15, 2016, 09:22:30 am »
Fact is they are after the youth market and lifetime brand loyalty.  They need youngsters keen on the brand to ensure future growth.
 

Offline Lem

Re: BMW G310GS
« Reply #38 on: November 15, 2016, 09:41:09 am »
Fact is they are after the youth market and lifetime brand loyalty.  They need youngsters keen on the brand to ensure future growth.

+1  :thumleft:
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Offline 1ougat

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Re: BMW G310GS
« Reply #39 on: November 16, 2016, 06:01:33 am »
Fact is they are after the youth market and lifetime brand loyalty.  They need youngsters keen on the brand to ensure future growth.

+1  :thumleft:


And Im keen on a good small bike ... so bring it on
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