Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register

Author Topic: The Livingstone Cup: The ultimate adventure race (11-16 Jun '17)  (Read 9287 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline DE

  • Pack Dog
  • **
  • Bike: Honda CRF-1000L Africa Twin
    Location: Limpopo
  • Posts: 427
  • Thanked: 13 times
Re: The Livingstone Cup: The ultimate adventure race (11-16 Jun '17)
« Reply #100 on: December 06, 2016, 10:38:14 am »
On a lighter note, just want to check that I've got this right, the minimum gear needed for a team of 2 will be:
2x bikes
2x spot trackers
1x roadbook holder
1x gps (1 per bike would be better though)
whatever else you need to sleep, eat survive, maintenance etc.

Am I missing anything? I want to start working out a "Race budget" to get my scheming on track.

I think only 1 x spot tracker per team.
Africa Twin 1000, KLR 650 (Fugly), VStrom 650

SOLD: KLR 650 (New Shape); KTM 950 SE; 1200GS; Honda CTX 200; KTM 950 Adv; BMW F650 GS; BMW F650 GS Dakar; KTM 640 Adv
 

Offline zebra - Flying Brick

  • Forum Vendor: Flying Brick Motorcycle Accessories 021 510 6455 info@flyingbrick.co.za
  • Bachelor Dog
  • *****
  • Bike: BMW (all models)
    Location: Western Cape
  • Posts: 12,857
  • Thanked: 454 times
  • 8 Shropshire St, P Eiland S3354.712 E01828.208
    • [b]-Flying Brick- Motorcycle Accessories[/b]
Re: The Livingstone Cup: The ultimate adventure race (11-16 Jun '17)
« Reply #101 on: December 06, 2016, 10:48:49 am »
On a lighter note, just want to check that I've got this right, the minimum gear needed for a team of 2 will be:
2x bikes
2x spot trackers
1x roadbook holder
1x gps (1 per bike would be better though)
whatever else you need to sleep, eat survive, maintenance etc.

Am I missing anything? I want to start working out a "Race budget" to get my scheming on track.

I think only 1 x spot tracker per team.
semi- hi-jack, but I DO think its relevant:
SPOT is having an end-of-year promotion: 01st December to 31st December, whereby you pay only 50% of the 1st-years tracking/monitoring fee of the SPOT Tracker device, ON NEW ACTIVATIONS.

So roughly 50% of $160 = $80 for the first year, or around R1100.
Please don't reply on this thread, rather PM or e-mail, or call...
Hijack OFF
Chris & Team
DYLAN 021 510 6455        bike@flyingbrick.co.za  
NICKY 021 510 6455            service@flyingbrick.co.za JAN 021 510 6455             web@flyingbrick.co.za
BEN 021 510 6455           sales@flyingbrick.co.za 
WERNER 021 510 6455   orders@flyingbrick.co.za
WHATS APP:                    067 278 1893
 

Offline ClimbingTurtle

  • Forum Vendor
  • Grey hound
  • ****
  • Bike: BMW (all models)
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 8,750
  • Thanked: 506 times
  • Give It Horns - Save Our Rhino's
    • Majita Tool Supplies
Re: The Livingstone Cup: The ultimate adventure race (11-16 Jun '17)
« Reply #102 on: December 06, 2016, 10:50:35 am »
On a lighter note, just want to check that I've got this right, the minimum gear needed for a team of 2 will be:
2x bikes
2x spot trackers
1x roadbook holder
1x gps (1 per bike would be better though)
whatever else you need to sleep, eat survive, maintenance etc.

Am I missing anything? I want to start working out a "Race budget" to get my scheming on track.

Good Idea!
So far we have
2 x R1200GS (one is the Adv)
1 x Garmin 660Zumo
1 x Adie to supply the roadbook holder. Roadbook Holder on a GSA - that's a novel idea!! Adie, comments?

To buy:-
2 x Replacement Husky 701's
2 x Nav Tower (OK, this is a wish)
1 x Garmin 64s or something similar, with holder & power cable
2 x Soft Luggage - Panniers are not going to cut it.
2 x Mini-screens - so as not to smash the OEM ones.
2 x sets TKC', Karoo's or something.
2 x Cold Weather Sleeping Bags....
www.majita.co.za - we sell tools!

"And if I knew I was going to be this thirsty, I would have drunk more last night"

2010 R1200GS Adventure SOLD - 2007 BMW G650x  - 2001 F650GS Dak SOLD - 1981 XT500 - 1980 XT500 - Gone to Mud Island for a better life with Roadcat the Lordly, Keeper of the Mead...!
 

Offline GraZer

  • Race Dog
  • ***
  • Bike: KTM 790 Adventure R Rally
    Location: Western Cape
  • Posts: 999
  • Thanked: 21 times
Re: The Livingstone Cup: The ultimate adventure race (11-16 Jun '17)
« Reply #103 on: December 06, 2016, 11:11:29 am »
Roadbook navigation will also require an ICO or similar device for distance. The GPS may suffice for CAP headings else another ICO or similar will also be required.
 

Offline Kortbroek

Re: The Livingstone Cup: The ultimate adventure race (11-16 Jun '17)
« Reply #104 on: December 06, 2016, 11:13:03 am »
Roadbook navigation will also require an ICO or similar device for distance. The GPS may suffice for CAP headings else another ICO or similar will also be required.
Would a odo trip not work for that?

I did think to add an ICO anyhow as that will make it easier but the trip on something like a Vapor should be fine as well?
- you reckon that thing will pop a wheelie? We're about to find out, SLAP that pig!
 

Offline DE

  • Pack Dog
  • **
  • Bike: Honda CRF-1000L Africa Twin
    Location: Limpopo
  • Posts: 427
  • Thanked: 13 times
Re: The Livingstone Cup: The ultimate adventure race (11-16 Jun '17)
« Reply #105 on: December 06, 2016, 11:22:43 am »
Camelman can you open the voting again as I think there is still hope for this event?  :3some:

Africa Twin 1000, KLR 650 (Fugly), VStrom 650

SOLD: KLR 650 (New Shape); KTM 950 SE; 1200GS; Honda CTX 200; KTM 950 Adv; BMW F650 GS; BMW F650 GS Dakar; KTM 640 Adv
 

Offline ClimbingTurtle

  • Forum Vendor
  • Grey hound
  • ****
  • Bike: BMW (all models)
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 8,750
  • Thanked: 506 times
  • Give It Horns - Save Our Rhino's
    • Majita Tool Supplies
Re: The Livingstone Cup: The ultimate adventure race (11-16 Jun '17)
« Reply #106 on: December 06, 2016, 11:52:56 am »
I was thinking of a iPhone 4 or 5 for CAP & ICO? Run them off of the Aux Power Supply.....
www.majita.co.za - we sell tools!

"And if I knew I was going to be this thirsty, I would have drunk more last night"

2010 R1200GS Adventure SOLD - 2007 BMW G650x  - 2001 F650GS Dak SOLD - 1981 XT500 - 1980 XT500 - Gone to Mud Island for a better life with Roadcat the Lordly, Keeper of the Mead...!
 

Offline Kortbroek

Re: The Livingstone Cup: The ultimate adventure race (11-16 Jun '17)
« Reply #107 on: December 06, 2016, 12:05:11 pm »
I was thinking of a iPhone 4 or 5 for CAP & ICO? Run them off of the Aux Power Supply.....
:imaposer: How much is the Apple rally app going to cost you  :peepwall:
- you reckon that thing will pop a wheelie? We're about to find out, SLAP that pig!
 

Offline ClimbingTurtle

  • Forum Vendor
  • Grey hound
  • ****
  • Bike: BMW (all models)
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 8,750
  • Thanked: 506 times
  • Give It Horns - Save Our Rhino's
    • Majita Tool Supplies
Re: The Livingstone Cup: The ultimate adventure race (11-16 Jun '17)
« Reply #108 on: December 06, 2016, 12:23:25 pm »
I was thinking of a iPhone 4 or 5 for CAP & ICO? Run them off of the Aux Power Supply.....
:imaposer: How much is the Apple rally app going to cost you  :peepwall:

R299.99 - its called RallyBlitz Nav - it's actually a Rally Odo and CAP repeater - I seem to remember someone used 2 of these in the Amageza last year iirc?
www.majita.co.za - we sell tools!

"And if I knew I was going to be this thirsty, I would have drunk more last night"

2010 R1200GS Adventure SOLD - 2007 BMW G650x  - 2001 F650GS Dak SOLD - 1981 XT500 - 1980 XT500 - Gone to Mud Island for a better life with Roadcat the Lordly, Keeper of the Mead...!
 

Offline Kortbroek

Re: The Livingstone Cup: The ultimate adventure race (11-16 Jun '17)
« Reply #109 on: December 06, 2016, 01:02:34 pm »
I was thinking of a iPhone 4 or 5 for CAP & ICO? Run them off of the Aux Power Supply.....
:imaposer: How much is the Apple rally app going to cost you  :peepwall:

R299.99 - its called RallyBlitz Nav - it's actually a Rally Odo and CAP repeater - I seem to remember someone used 2 of these in the Amageza last year iirc?

Shit, I was joking and then you tell me actually exists. Soon apps will take over in the bedroom as well :patch:
- you reckon that thing will pop a wheelie? We're about to find out, SLAP that pig!
 

Offline ClimbingTurtle

  • Forum Vendor
  • Grey hound
  • ****
  • Bike: BMW (all models)
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 8,750
  • Thanked: 506 times
  • Give It Horns - Save Our Rhino's
    • Majita Tool Supplies
Re: The Livingstone Cup: The ultimate adventure race (11-16 Jun '17)
« Reply #110 on: December 06, 2016, 01:03:55 pm »
I was thinking of a iPhone 4 or 5 for CAP & ICO? Run them off of the Aux Power Supply.....
:imaposer: How much is the Apple rally app going to cost you  :peepwall:

R299.99 - its called RallyBlitz Nav - it's actually a Rally Odo and CAP repeater - I seem to remember someone used 2 of these in the Amageza last year iirc?

Shit, I was joking and then you tell me actually exists. Soon apps will take over in the bedroom as well :patch:

It's called PornHub.....
www.majita.co.za - we sell tools!

"And if I knew I was going to be this thirsty, I would have drunk more last night"

2010 R1200GS Adventure SOLD - 2007 BMW G650x  - 2001 F650GS Dak SOLD - 1981 XT500 - 1980 XT500 - Gone to Mud Island for a better life with Roadcat the Lordly, Keeper of the Mead...!
 

Offline Kortbroek

Re: The Livingstone Cup: The ultimate adventure race (11-16 Jun '17)
« Reply #111 on: December 06, 2016, 01:04:40 pm »
I was thinking of a iPhone 4 or 5 for CAP & ICO? Run them off of the Aux Power Supply.....
:imaposer: How much is the Apple rally app going to cost you  :peepwall:

R299.99 - its called RallyBlitz Nav - it's actually a Rally Odo and CAP repeater - I seem to remember someone used 2 of these in the Amageza last year iirc?

Shit, I was joking and then you tell me actually exists. Soon apps will take over in the bedroom as well :patch:

It's called PornHub.....
:laughing4: :3some:
- you reckon that thing will pop a wheelie? We're about to find out, SLAP that pig!
 

Offline Weedkiller - Adie

Re: The Livingstone Cup: The ultimate adventure race (11-16 Jun '17)
« Reply #112 on: December 06, 2016, 01:17:44 pm »
Good Idea!
So far we have
2 x R1200GS (one is the Adv)
1 x Garmin 660Zumo
1 x Adie to supply the roadbook holder. Roadbook Holder on a GSA - that's a novel idea!! Adie, comments?

Lots of things happening here.
We are in the process of building a 7" (Android device) holder that will fit directly on the handlebar (between the clamps) 


The software will be available separately for around R350.00  It will include Roadbook, trip and CAP.  It does include full recording of the trip etc etc. Basically all you need.  Again we might include other features as well.  The holder will include the charger and optional button interface with standard ICO/F2R/Rockfox plugs. If you use your own enclosure the touch screen will still be available.

Dit maak mens dink.  Op een of ander manier moet ek my belegging herwin.   >:D

forgot the Pic.  Sample screen (with some other management things which will be 'hidden'

Adie
« Last Edit: December 06, 2016, 01:22:06 pm by Weedkiller - Adie »
Laat ons Stof maak.
 

Offline Charel

  • Puppy
  • *
  • Bike: BMW R1150GS Adventure
    Location: Western Cape
  • Posts: 44
Re: The Livingstone Cup: The ultimate adventure race (11-16 Jun '17)
« Reply #113 on: December 06, 2016, 01:21:40 pm »
.. (double post, sorry)
« Last Edit: December 06, 2016, 01:23:15 pm by Charel »
2003 BMW R1150GSA
Adventure is just a push of a button away
 

Offline Charel

  • Puppy
  • *
  • Bike: BMW R1150GS Adventure
    Location: Western Cape
  • Posts: 44
Re: The Livingstone Cup: The ultimate adventure race (11-16 Jun '17)
« Reply #114 on: December 06, 2016, 01:22:28 pm »

Adie,

This sounds very interesting, will be keeping an eye out for this.
2003 BMW R1150GSA
Adventure is just a push of a button away
 

Offline GraZer

  • Race Dog
  • ***
  • Bike: KTM 790 Adventure R Rally
    Location: Western Cape
  • Posts: 999
  • Thanked: 21 times
Re: The Livingstone Cup: The ultimate adventure race (11-16 Jun '17)
« Reply #115 on: December 07, 2016, 06:06:29 am »
Would a odo trip not work for that?

I did think to add an ICO anyhow as that will make it easier but the trip on something like a Vapor should be fine as well?

No, as it is not possible to calibrate the odo to the roadbook as you go. The roadbook distance and odo will differ more and more as the distance grows making it impossible to know exactly where to turn. Especially when the roadbook distances are to two decimal places (10m). Although it is more practical to round the distances up to one decimal place (100m).
 

Offline Kortbroek

Re: The Livingstone Cup: The ultimate adventure race (11-16 Jun '17)
« Reply #116 on: December 07, 2016, 07:53:31 am »
Would a odo trip not work for that?

I did think to add an ICO anyhow as that will make it easier but the trip on something like a Vapor should be fine as well?

No, as it is not possible to calibrate the odo to the roadbook as you go. The roadbook distance and odo will differ more and more as the distance grows making it impossible to know exactly where to turn. Especially when the roadbook distances are to two decimal places (10m). Although it is more practical to round the distances up to one decimal place (100m).

Ok thanks. Suspected something along that line.

I've done a bit of orienteering which involves a very similar style of navigation while running cross country, but not at 100kmh+  :lol8:
- you reckon that thing will pop a wheelie? We're about to find out, SLAP that pig!
 

Online Cracker

  • Grey hound
  • ****
  • Bike: KTM 950 Adventure S
    Location: Europe
  • Posts: 6,061
  • Thanked: 572 times
  • Top Biscuit!
Re: The Livingstone Cup: The ultimate adventure race (11-16 Jun '17)
« Reply #117 on: December 07, 2016, 07:54:35 am »
A Vapor won't work but a Striker will. It will save you money and can be used as a normal speedo, etc  :thumleft:
Don't let fear hold you back ..... take it with you!
 

Offline zebra - Flying Brick

  • Forum Vendor: Flying Brick Motorcycle Accessories 021 510 6455 info@flyingbrick.co.za
  • Bachelor Dog
  • *****
  • Bike: BMW (all models)
    Location: Western Cape
  • Posts: 12,857
  • Thanked: 454 times
  • 8 Shropshire St, P Eiland S3354.712 E01828.208
    • [b]-Flying Brick- Motorcycle Accessories[/b]
Re: The Livingstone Cup: The ultimate adventure race (11-16 Jun '17)
« Reply #118 on: December 07, 2016, 02:55:15 pm »
Quote

I agree - and I wait in trepidation to hear from the Backup Team - the only reason they want to be involved, is because they are my mates, they don't ride bikes, they love playing outdoors (camping, climbing, 4x4's) and they have Land cruiser pickups - they will pitch tents and make food, that's probably all.

I am seriously going to look for a 701, need a long range tank, or perhaps a 690 with a Rallye kit, something like that, and go minimal. I need some new gear, but that will be what it is. At the very worst I will use the GSA, not ideal I don't think. Maybe a modified XR650L, DR650SE....... Will have to see whats available.
unashamed 'left-field' thinking here... indulge me...  ;) Flame-suit-ON  :komet:   :biggrin:

the 2nd-hand BMW 650 T-W-I-N can be had cheaply, since most guys want it's Big Brother, the 800GS, for posing value  >:D
(The engine actually produces a little more torque at a lower rpm. Only at highway speeds and above does the 800 really outshine the 650twin)
Part of improved acceleration of the 800 is the fact that it has lower gearing with a 16 tooth front sprocket vs a 17 for the 650. They are interchangeable. The suspension and ground clearance is the biggie, beefier units, 2 inches more travel and ground clearance. Though in all honesty BMW 800 suspension is not state of the art and requires some mods for the rockier and potholed offroad stuff. There are mods to be had for the 650 suspension that will greatly improve that suspension as well. Respring for your weight with one of the cartridge emulators will greatly improve offroad behavior. The last is the wheels. Cast tubless versus spoke tubed and a 19 vs 21" front wheel. There are numerous reports of the spoked wheels bending on hard impacts, including mine. I think the spoke rims are soft and wider than needed for a dirt orientated bike. Fixes are expensive. I know nothing about the cast, but would think they would be adequate for most situations and the difference in tire size an inconsequential issue considering the other differences. (this last bit taken from ADVRider + f800riders.org)

many, not all, 650 TWINS were owned by careful lady drivers (flame-suit ON!  :komet: ), and can be had for not a lot of money....meaning they sell 2nd hand at an even-bigger discount than it 'should'...

a 650 TWIN would get to the start easily (less vibey than a thumper...), and then it could easily do the course, if it is indeed do-able, with experience, on say a 1200 behemoth (I'm still wearing that flame-suit...!)

then the 650 TWIN has a much lower stand-over height than many 'hardcore' dual sport bikes, easier to flat-foot/man-handle through challenging areas...

needs a good bash plate, of course.

RWU forks? no real issue, it's still suspension, after all, maybe slap in progressive springs?
a good number of people do round-the-world (remote) trips with RWU forks, no problemo....!

Fuel: easily sorted; disclaimer, we SELL a plug & play 7L after-market REAR tank, no drilling necessary, hook it up and ride! But a 5L fuel bladder could go a long way to increasing range, too...

tubeless tyres? I like, about 90% less time in regular puncture repairs...

tubeless rims? I do not like so much, but with a bit more aggressive tyre, and being 'looked after' within reason, they will likely survive.

Back-up vehicle maybe to carry a spare front and rear WHEEL, with tyres mounted?  These can be had inexpensively, too.

Then if two (or four) team-members all used the SAME bike, then just one set of wheels for absolute emergency, and common spares across both (or all 4) bikes!
Oh, and of course, a big box of rear-wheel bearings!  ;) Oh, and tighten the radiator-hose clamps!  ;D

with the 650 TWIN, you can change the fuel mapping, but not the cams, meaning the 650 can be reprogrammed to get back some of it's 'lost' power, but not all of it...
...and underrated little bike!  :thumleft:

Flame on!  :komet:
Chris
« Last Edit: December 07, 2016, 02:58:27 pm by zebra - Flying Brick »
DYLAN 021 510 6455        bike@flyingbrick.co.za  
NICKY 021 510 6455            service@flyingbrick.co.za JAN 021 510 6455             web@flyingbrick.co.za
BEN 021 510 6455           sales@flyingbrick.co.za 
WERNER 021 510 6455   orders@flyingbrick.co.za
WHATS APP:                    067 278 1893
 

Offline Camelman

  • Race Dog
  • ***
  • Bike: KTM 690 Adventure
    Location: Western Cape
  • Posts: 620
  • Thanked: 3 times
  • If it was easy, everyone would do it.
    • Amageza Rallye
Re: The Livingstone Cup: (11-16 Jun '17) - NOT TO HAPPEN
« Reply #119 on: December 07, 2016, 09:15:38 pm »
So the time has come to make a decision:

Although not every single Adventure or Rallye rider had voted, I like to use the Wilddog forum as a sample of the Adventure/ Racing public. Also why I did not post on 'Planning a Ride' If you never even read the Racing Thread, then I'm trying to tap blood from a stone.

From a historic perspective (and yes I have done this before on this here forum) this sample will work out as follows in reality. Some external factors may change it, like massive sponsorship or a Marketing Drive of epic proportions. But after being on TV for 3 times, and featuring every year in most of the bike magazines since 2012, I still hear from guys saying 'I have never even heard of the Amageza Rallye'. If you don't read, watch motorsport or News, I can't reach you. Even posters seemed not to have worked.

I regress...

So, of a sample of 46 votes which make up our 100%, this is the result, and what will happen if entries were to open for the Livingstone Cup, and how it will effect the entry fee.

  • 28% Will do it come hell or high water. You are my new brothers.  :3some: I like you like I like a dry tent in a Parys thunderstorm. (I have had a lot of that in my tent lately)
  • 48% Can't really decide. If they have some playdough and the planets are aligned just right, they might enter. So of these voters, 20% will actually enter.  ::)
  • 24% Clicked the wrong forum link. At least they voted, and for that we thank you!  :o

To recce, layout, pay for land, get permissions, pay for park fees, overland fee's, government levies, sporting levies, vehicle costs, maintenance costs, etc, etc cost approximately R 100 per kilometer. That's excluding overhead costs like office, admin, phones, salaries, etc. So with our brave sum of 38 entries who have to now pay for this exercise, the entry fee will be in the region of R26 315. And we have no prize money.

And that my friends is why there will likely be no Livingstone Cup, nor a 2017 Amageza Rally. Because if I open entries and take your money, I have to give you a product. And if so few riders enter, I have to take the  loss. And I have no more money to loose. Its been a tough 6 years.

Then off-course one has the added stress of serious injury to a rider. I felt devastated after I heard about the rider fatality on the ROA. I felt sorry for the rider and family, but I felt even more compassion for the organization. Even though the general thought is that organizers roll around in money, that is not the fact. Many suffer a great deal of personal financial hardship to bring something to the riders, and do not plan for it to go so horribly wrong. But no one can do EVERYTHING. You have to rely on other people, and if they slip up, you take the blame. Reading the complaints against ROA on the social media, it brought back vivid memories of the 2015 Amageza Rallye and how devastated and helpless I felt after the issues we had. Then three months later I was crucified on social networks for being late for prize-giving after I flew 10 hours that day finding lost riders and organizing their recovery. Even leading some back from the air. Then having to endure a screaming match after some riders went around the wrong way on the GPS route. So no, being a race director or organizer is not worth it financially or otherwise. You get your reward from the rider that comes to you afterward with a big smile and a outstretched hand, thanking you for a awesome ride. That's what you live on. And that is one of the reasons why I may be bowing out gracefully.

So if you still want to do a rally by Amageza Racing, you best enter the 2017 West Coast Baja. Seems it may be my last!!  :-\

On the bright side: I doubt this will be the end of cross-country rally. I'm sure someone will pop up somewhere with a race. Then I might  be lining up next to you grinning like a mad dog... :ricky: