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Author Topic: The Livingstone Cup: The ultimate adventure race (11-16 Jun '17)  (Read 9288 times)

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Offline Crossed-up

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Re: The Livingstone Cup: The ultimate adventure race
« Reply #20 on: November 26, 2016, 10:27:14 am »
Is riding at night allowed?

Sunrise to sunset - times as given by your GPS.
 

Offline Weedkiller - Adie

Re: The Livingstone Cup: The ultimate adventure race
« Reply #21 on: November 26, 2016, 01:30:36 pm »
I like the sound of this  :thumleft:

A clip-on universal RB holder would be good - Adie???

YUP, that is in the pipeline

BUT

The new Rockfox electronic roaddbook (Android) will be 100% for this.  We are looking of making the software (a bit crippled to suit the event) available as a 'purchase'.  Still need to talk to the Boss (Alexander) but it can be even more cost effective than 'proper' eq.. >:D

Just imagine: you hand a memory stick to the org and they load the RB.  You load within seconds on the digital . (there could be a limit to the actual Phone/Tablet to make it cost effective (OTG capable units) Bla Bla Bla.

NAAA, It will not be approved (actuall there will be complaints about 'unfair advantage'  :pot:

B.T.W. I must start saving cos this is gonna cost me some moolahh.

Adie
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Offline JAmBer

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Re: The Livingstone Cup: The ultimate adventure race
« Reply #22 on: November 27, 2016, 07:49:50 am »
I really like the sounds of this race. But...

Enforcing start and end times each day (sunrise and sunset), combined with speed limits and a fixed route (necessarily the case with a roadbook) will mean that everyone makes the same progress each day.

  *) How will speed limits be enforced? Amageza style? Then you really can't "bend" the rules at all!

  *) How will sunrise/sunset times be determined? What will be the penalty for riding outside of these hours?

Given these restrictions, I don't think that the race will work out quite the way you've imagined it. I doubt anyone will arrive subbled and dirty. There are plenty of evening hours each day for a shit, shave and shower!

Offline JAmBer

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Re: The Livingstone Cup: The ultimate adventure race
« Reply #23 on: November 27, 2016, 07:50:02 am »
I can imagine cheating: ride from sunrise to sunset at the speed limit, then leave the spot tracker and a GPS there. Ride to the nearest town for a comfortable sleep, dinner, shit, shave, shower etc. Leave the next morning again before sunrise, to arrive at your spot tracker and GPS at sunrise for next day's official start.

Offline Cdp13

Re: The Livingstone Cup: The ultimate adventure race
« Reply #24 on: November 27, 2016, 12:12:08 pm »
I really like the sounds of this race. But...

Enforcing start and end times each day (sunrise and sunset), combined with speed limits and a fixed route (necessarily the case with a roadbook) will mean that everyone makes the same progress each day.

  *) How will speed limits be enforced? Amageza style? Then you really can't "bend" the rules at all!

  *) How will sunrise/sunset times be determined? What will be the penalty for riding outside of these hours?

Given these restrictions, I don't think that the race will work out quite the way you've imagined it. I doubt anyone will arrive subbled and dirty. There are plenty of evening hours each day for a shit, shave and shower!

Alex will find a way to rough us up, under estimate him at your peril... :peepwall:

You raise valid concerns, but I'm sure he's thought this through again and again. Depending on the dates, I am in. The details will become clearer as the time goes on, but before we shoot this idea down, let's hear it out. Just my 2cents. Go Camelman, make this thing happen!!!
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Offline Kortbroek

Re: The Livingstone Cup: The ultimate adventure race
« Reply #25 on: November 27, 2016, 01:39:33 pm »
I would use the same rules as the X-alps. Your tracker is attached to your kit/bike and has to always be on. It gets a tamper seal. They monitor your heart rate so they can see when you're moving. Start and end times are allocated for each day. It is the same style of race as this only you are on foot or paragliding but have to carry all of your kit.

http://www.redbullxalps.com/

I really think a similar rule set would work well for this race.
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Offline DE

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Re: The Livingstone Cup: The ultimate adventure race
« Reply #26 on: November 27, 2016, 03:06:09 pm »
I Like!!!

I am in pending the dates.
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Offline Bill the Bong

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Re: The Livingstone Cup: The ultimate adventure race
« Reply #27 on: November 27, 2016, 05:39:41 pm »
I really like the sounds of this race. But...

  *) How will sunrise/sunset times be determined? What will be the penalty for riding outside of these hours?


http://www.gaisma.com/ is where the official sunset and sunrise tables are published
 

Offline Weedkiller - Adie

Re: The Livingstone Cup: The ultimate adventure race
« Reply #28 on: November 27, 2016, 05:59:32 pm »
I really like the sounds of this race. But...

Enforcing start and end times each day (sunrise and sunset), combined with speed limits and a fixed route (necessarily the case with a roadbook) will mean that everyone makes the same progress each day.

  *) How will speed limits be enforced? Amageza style? Then you really can't "bend" the rules at all!

  *) How will sunrise/sunset times be determined? What will be the penalty for riding outside of these hours?

Given these restrictions, I don't think that the race will work out quite the way you've imagined it. I doubt anyone will arrive subbled and dirty. There are plenty of evening hours each day for a shit, shave and shower!

Just thinking (which by itself is a dangerous activity for me)

In reality it will not be like that due to the route selected and various other 'realities'.  Even if all get up the same time an leave (close to) the same time the faster riders will pass through the 'cutoff checkpoint' earlier.  They can then proceed and ride until 'sunset' (as per Roadbook) and camp next to the road.  The GPS will pick up any 'cheating' (movement towards next cutoff) so the team will be penalized at the 'cutoff checkpoint' when the GPS is downloaded. and the new roadbook handed over.

Remember it will not happen at 'highway speed' only.  Some riders think 90 is fast on gravel roads whereas other are comfortable at 120.  So in essence the technicality of the gravel (probably most - hopefully) sections will be the deciding factor on average speed per team.

'sunrise/sunset' must not be read literally.  the roadbook could give exact times and the GPS will confirm movement.

**
For me the prize money is the issue.  It can turn into a huge mess very quickly.  It will (could) also discourage competitors.  I do not have an answer but options like bigger spread for prizes like 1st to 25th or smaller 1st but a seq. of raffles( again 25 ??)  Value of 1st could be twice the entry fee and then down the line.  Me think that will entice much more entrants.

But nou ja that is just my thoughts.  :pot:

Adie
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Re: The Livingstone Cup: The ultimate adventure race
« Reply #29 on: November 27, 2016, 06:34:42 pm »
Why involve MSA? Assuming it's not a closed-course race but more of a navigation challenge, on public roads/areas - why are licenses necessary?

There are tons of big bikes out there, ridden by adventurers all and every day - a very big pool of potential competitiors. Only a handful bother with racing at all.

I'm attracted to the adventure this will give - I have no interest in prize money. Handing it out to some poor folk along the way would suit me.

I haven't voted but I'd really like to do something like this - good luck.
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Offline Crossed-up

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Re: The Livingstone Cup: The ultimate adventure race
« Reply #30 on: November 27, 2016, 07:10:52 pm »
An MSA licence provides medical and other insurances and indemnities etc. Absolutely essential. Your own insurances and medical aids would probably not pay for anything that goes wrong on an event like this, nor will they pay 3rd party damages.
 

Offline Andy660

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Re: The Livingstone Cup: The ultimate adventure race
« Reply #31 on: November 27, 2016, 09:40:21 pm »
First I need a sponsor ?
Then  , can the " Marshal / Scrutineer  also ride ?
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Offline Buff

Re: The Livingstone Cup: The ultimate adventure race
« Reply #32 on: November 28, 2016, 12:00:52 am »
"A team must consist of two members"... can this be a rider and pillion? My wife will not allow me to leave her at home and do something this awesome without her  ;)
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Offline Camelman

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Re: The Livingstone Cup: The ultimate adventure race
« Reply #33 on: November 28, 2016, 05:39:18 am »
"A team must consist of two members"... can this be a rider and pillion? My wife will not allow me to leave her at home and do something this awesome without her  ;)

Nope. Two bikes. It's about safety. If you are two bikes the org know their is someone close to you should something happen. Also spares, tubes, etc is easier split among two or more team members. The nature of the terrain may also slow a overweight bike down. The route will be designed for a 1 liter bike weighing around 250 - 300 kg loaded, with a confident rider on board.

Because you are a team, you can help each other through tough sections. It won't be much of a challenge if you only get to ride highway gravel. But I won't send you over Devils Breath for instance. But its going to be technical enough.

Riding it with a pax, and a weeks worth of kit may be really tough. She could support you though. Although you don't know the route. You tracker is publicly visible. The 'wife's club' could check every hour where the bikes are and stay on the main roads close by. Then at sundown zoom in your position and bring spares, food, etc. Could be a challenge to keep up though.
 

Offline Camelman

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Re: The Livingstone Cup: The ultimate adventure race
« Reply #34 on: November 28, 2016, 05:48:43 am »
I can imagine cheating: ride from sunrise to sunset at the speed limit, then leave the spot tracker and a GPS there. Ride to the nearest town for a comfortable sleep, dinner, shit, shave, shower etc. Leave the next morning again before sunrise, to arrive at your spot tracker and GPS at sunrise for next day's official start.

You could just stop at the closest town near sunset, and have a lekke sleep. Then resume the roadbook where you left off. Remember, you need to do 100% of the roadbook between sunrise and sunset.

If you leave the course and go to find a place to sleep/ eat off the route, that might cost you the next day, as you will
a) have to ride out some fuel to get to where you left off,
b) now have less fuel
c) have to ride longer because you went off route.
d) forfeit race support because you are not on the race route and riding at night.

Keep in mind that HQ is closed down after sunset. You will only get a voicemail message in case of emergency. And if you call me at 22:00 stating rider injury because of a fall, you will:
a) place the rider in danger because I cannot get a aircraft to go anywhere at night.
b) your team will be excluded, 

So like with Amageza, rider safety takes priority.
 

Offline Camelman

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Re: The Livingstone Cup: The ultimate adventure race
« Reply #35 on: November 28, 2016, 05:51:18 am »
I like the sound of this  :thumleft:

A clip-on universal RB holder would be good - Adie???

YUP, that is in the pipeline

BUT

The new Rockfox electronic roaddbook (Android) will be 100% for this.  We are looking of making the software (a bit crippled to suit the event) available as a 'purchase'.  Still need to talk to the Boss (Alexander) but it can be even more cost effective than 'proper' eq.. >:D

Just imagine: you hand a memory stick to the org and they load the RB.  You load within seconds on the digital . (there could be a limit to the actual Phone/Tablet to make it cost effective (OTG capable units) Bla Bla Bla.

NAAA, It will not be approved (actuall there will be complaints about 'unfair advantage'  :pot:

B.T.W. I must start saving cos this is gonna cost me some moolahh.

Adie

The rider can use any and all tools, electronic or otherwise. You can have several GPS's with every map on the planet and a UAV overhead. The only time a map will help you, is if you need to get to a town, or identify where the closest town is to your current location. Or to direct your support crew to your location.
 

Offline Camelman

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Re: The Livingstone Cup: The ultimate adventure race
« Reply #36 on: November 28, 2016, 05:59:39 am »
Why involve MSA? Assuming it's not a closed-course race but more of a navigation challenge, on public roads/areas - why are licenses necessary?

There are tons of big bikes out there, ridden by adventurers all and every day - a very big pool of potential competitiors. Only a handful bother with racing at all.

I'm attracted to the adventure this will give - I have no interest in prize money. Handing it out to some poor folk along the way would suit me.

I haven't voted but I'd really like to do something like this - good luck.

Its all about third party liability. MSA provides this for both the competitor and the organization. It took me 2 years to get MSA's head around true cross-country racing. This again is something they don't know. So we may, or may not have MSA. Regularity Rallies, like the 'Livingstone Cup' is normally done by classic cars all over the place. Its never been done with bikes to my knowledge. But I'm working on it. Even if you have to join MSA, it could be with a very cheap license, and your Medical Aid covers you in a accident. Remember its not a race in the full sense of the word. Its a navigational and endurance challenge. Nothing more than you following your own track for 4000 km. In this case you just don't know the track and can be penalized if you break certain rules, and can be excluded if you miss the cut-off. In a Regularity Rally, its all about AVERAGE SPEED, not MAXIMUM SPEED. Think hare vs tortoise. Even on Amageza the average speed  is only 59 km/h.

And please vote. I can't really read every post and vote on your behalf.  ;D

YOUR VOTE MATTERS!
 

Offline Camelman

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Re: The Livingstone Cup: The ultimate adventure race
« Reply #37 on: November 28, 2016, 06:04:53 am »
I would use the same rules as the X-alps. Your tracker is attached to your kit/bike and has to always be on. It gets a tamper seal. They monitor your heart rate so they can see when you're moving. Start and end times are allocated for each day. It is the same style of race as this only you are on foot or paragliding but have to carry all of your kit.

http://www.redbullxalps.com/

I really think a similar rule set would work well for this race.

Good idea, thanks.

But, can you imagine coming back for your tracker and GPS and its gone. Easiest is to check the total on the GPS vs Bike clock. Although possible to gippo, you are only wasting your own time. We don't really care. If you ride at night off the course, you are not part of the event, so we don't need to support you. Good luck with your recovery and medical support!  :ricky:
 

Offline Camelman

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Re: The Livingstone Cup: The ultimate adventure race
« Reply #38 on: November 28, 2016, 06:05:59 am »
I Like!!!

I am in pending the dates.

The date is set, pending interest for:

11 - 16 June 2017
 

Offline Camelman

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Re: The Livingstone Cup: The ultimate adventure race
« Reply #39 on: November 28, 2016, 06:16:21 am »
First I need a sponsor ?
Then  , can the " Marshal / Scrutineer  also ride ?

You may enter indeed!   :biggrin: I'm sure we will find marshals for TLC out of the non-riding marshals!
« Last Edit: November 28, 2016, 06:17:35 am by Camelman »