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Offline TheBear

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WSBK: Interesting rule change for 2017
« on: December 06, 2016, 12:19:24 pm »
Instead of the grid being the same (as per qualification) for both races it will change from Philip Island in February 2017.

Race 1:  Grid according to super pole qualifying.

Race 2: 

- Top three riders move back from front row to row three and 1st and 3rd reverse their positions..
- Riders who finished in 4th, 5th and 6th will be promoted to the front row.
- Riders who finished in 7th, 8th and 9th will start from row 2.

Sounds complex, but should make Race 2 a very exciting race.


Also:

- Added will be Supersport 300 class.
- Supersport 600 will now have flag to flag races, i.e. tire changes depending on weather.  Bikes may be modified to facilitate fast wheel changes, similar to SBK.

« Last Edit: December 06, 2016, 01:15:30 pm by TheBear »
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Offline iamgigglz

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Re: WSBK: Interesting rule change for 2017
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2016, 02:21:48 pm »
I'm wondering about this 300 class - you have KTM's 373cc single RC390, Yamaha's 321cc twin R3 and Honda came a long with the amazeballs CBR250RR....250cc. Hopefully they bore it out a bit for 2017.
It's such a mish-mash of bikes I'm interested to see how they keep it competitive.
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Offline PierreO

Re: WSBK: Interesting rule change for 2017
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2016, 02:37:25 pm »
There will be a lot of 300cc bikes hitting the showroom next year according to the bunch on The Bike show . So we could see a few manufacturers in that class .
 

Offline Sithe

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Re: WSBK: Interesting rule change for 2017
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2016, 03:30:19 pm »
Race 1:  Grid according to super pole qualifying.

Race 2: 

- Top three riders move back from front row to row three and 1st and 3rd reverse their positions..
- Riders who finished in 4th, 5th and 6th will be promoted to the front row.
- Riders who finished in 7th, 8th and 9th will start from row 2.

What top three riders, race 1 top three or qualifying top 3 ?
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Offline Amsterdam

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Re: WSBK: Interesting rule change for 2017
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2016, 03:36:16 pm »
Race 1:  Grid according to super pole qualifying.

Race 2: 

- Top three riders move back from front row to row three and 1st and 3rd reverse their positions..
- Riders who finished in 4th, 5th and 6th will be promoted to the front row.
- Riders who finished in 7th, 8th and 9th will start from row 2.

What top three riders, race 1 top three or qualifying top 3 ?

Those are the top 3 finishers of race 1.  A most stupid rule this.  Begins to sound like kindergarten where everyone is a winner.  If you want to start from the front than you must be fast.  Now it is that if you were fast in qualifying and win the race you must start from 9th. 
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Offline TheBear

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Re: WSBK: Interesting rule change for 2017
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2016, 05:36:27 pm »
Race 1:  Grid according to super pole qualifying.

Race 2: 

- Top three riders move back from front row to row three and 1st and 3rd reverse their positions..
- Riders who finished in 4th, 5th and 6th will be promoted to the front row.
- Riders who finished in 7th, 8th and 9th will start from row 2.

What top three riders, race 1 top three or qualifying top 3 ?

Those are the top 3 finishers of race 1.  A most stupid rule this.  Begins to sound like kindergarten where everyone is a winner.  If you want to start from the front than you must be fast.  Now it is that if you were fast in qualifying and win the race you must start from 9th.

Not an ideal solution, but the current system is not so great either.  Qualify fastest.  Fall off and do not complete race 1, still start pole for race 2.  I would have prefered race 1 start as qualified.  Race 2 start as finished race 1.
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Offline Warren Ellwood

Re: WSBK: Interesting rule change for 2017
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2016, 05:55:51 pm »
A simple change would have better indeed.

Also read somewhere they are considering doing away with the Supersport Class as sales of Supersport bikes have plummeted worldwide.

In its place would be a naked bike class as those sales are sky rocketing. Back to the days of old.

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Offline Cracker

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Re: WSBK: Interesting rule change for 2017
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2016, 05:58:01 pm »
Race 1:  Grid according to super pole qualifying.

Race 2: 

- Top three riders move back from front row to row three and 1st and 3rd reverse their positions..
- Riders who finished in 4th, 5th and 6th will be promoted to the front row.
- Riders who finished in 7th, 8th and 9th will start from row 2.

What top three riders, race 1 top three or qualifying top 3 ?

Those are the top 3 finishers of race 1.  A most stupid rule this.  Begins to sound like kindergarten where everyone is a winner.  If you want to start from the front than you must be fast.  Now it is that if you were fast in qualifying and win the race you must start from 9th.

Not an ideal solution, but the current system is not so great either.  Qualify fastest.  Fall off and do not complete race 1, still start pole for race 2.  I would have prefered race 1 start as qualified.  Race 2 start as finished race 1.

Yep, that makes a whole lotta sense to me. I always wondered why they never did this anyway.

This new one seems a bit doff to me. We're gonna see a few overtakes in the first few laps of race 2, then back to the normal procession.

They still doing the sat/sun thing?

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Offline Cracker

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Re: WSBK: Interesting rule change for 2017
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2016, 06:00:56 pm »
What's needed really, is for the others to make bikes as fast as the kawasakis.
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Offline IceCreamMan

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Re: WSBK: Interesting rule change for 2017
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2016, 06:17:31 pm »
Artificially create races never works.
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Offline Amsterdam

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Re: WSBK: Interesting rule change for 2017
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2016, 06:21:09 pm »

Not an ideal solution, but the current system is not so great either.  Qualify fastest.  Fall off and do not complete race 1, still start pole for race 2.  I would have prefered race 1 start as qualified.  Race 2 start as finished race 1.

That would work too and even fairer actually.  If you are good on the day you get rewarded.  We used to have that rule at Killarney for years until it was changed in the not too distant past (probably same for all circuit bike racing in SA)
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Offline TheBear

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Re: WSBK: Interesting rule change for 2017
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2016, 06:35:23 pm »
What's needed really, is for the others to make bikes as fast as the kawasakis.

Like Ducati did?   :peepwall:

It could also work if all Kawasakis were all made to be as fast as the two factory Kawasakis.  For every race won by a Kawa, there is a race lost by a Kawa.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2016, 06:37:30 pm by TheBear »
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Re: WSBK: Interesting rule change for 2017
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2016, 07:15:10 pm »
You know what I mean ... ::)
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Offline Kawasefi

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Re: WSBK: Interesting rule change for 2017
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2016, 07:53:15 pm »
That's just stupid. If manufacturers other than Kawasaki and Ducati actually put in some effort by having a factory team then this wouldn't be necessary. Now they just punish the teams who are fully committed, let's see how that works out for them in the long run.  :patch:
 

Offline Sithe

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Re: WSBK: Interesting rule change for 2017
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2016, 08:12:16 pm »
The problems with wsbk were largely self made.

For a long time the rules were designed for Ducati to dominate and dominate they did. The Japs then lost interest. Suzuki, Honda and Yamaha pulled both sbk and supersport involvement from a factory perspective completely choosing instead to invest in their motogp bikes.

Kawasaki developed their a bike for motogp but realising it was not fast enough, they pulled out of motogp and took the bike to sbk where they now dominate the series in the absence of the other Japs.

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Offline TheBear

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Re: WSBK: Interesting rule change for 2017
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2016, 08:32:31 pm »
I am not sure that the Kawasaki was developed for MotoGP.  Kawasaki is just putting all their money and effort into the WSBK factory team.

You know what I mean ... ::)

Of course I do.   :thumleft: 
« Last Edit: December 06, 2016, 08:34:25 pm by TheBear »
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Offline Sithe

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Re: WSBK: Interesting rule change for 2017
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2016, 10:47:40 pm »
I am not sure that the Kawasaki was developed for MotoGP.  Kawasaki is just putting all their money and effort into the WSBK factory team.

Yes it was. From 2002 to 2009 Kawasaki was involved  in motogp. They were never able to compete there.

Motogp bikes had started using electronics. Kawasaki soon abandoned their motogp project and introduced a wsbk bike full of electronics. Basically they took their motogp bike and homologated it for wsbk
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Offline Kawasefi

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Re: WSBK: Interesting rule change for 2017
« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2016, 08:53:01 am »
I am not sure that the Kawasaki was developed for MotoGP.  Kawasaki is just putting all their money and effort into the WSBK factory team.

Yes it was. From 2002 to 2009 Kawasaki was involved  in motogp. They were never able to compete there.

Motogp bikes had started using electronics. Kawasaki soon abandoned their motogp project and introduced a wsbk bike full of electronics. Basically they took their motogp bike and homologated it for wsbk

So you're saying the 800cc ZxRR MotoGP prototype of 2008 resurfaced as the 2011 Zx10R?
 

Offline Sithe

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Re: WSBK: Interesting rule change for 2017
« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2016, 10:40:46 am »
I am not sure that the Kawasaki was developed for MotoGP.  Kawasaki is just putting all their money and effort into the WSBK factory team.

Yes it was. From 2002 to 2009 Kawasaki was involved  in motogp. They were never able to compete there.

Motogp bikes had started using electronics. Kawasaki soon abandoned their motogp project and introduced a wsbk bike full of electronics. Basically they took their motogp bike and homologated it for wsbk

So you're saying the 800cc ZxRR MotoGP prototype of 2008 resurfaced as the 2011 Zx10R?
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Offline TheBear

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Re: WSBK: Interesting rule change for 2017
« Reply #19 on: December 08, 2016, 09:14:35 am »
I am not sure that the Kawasaki was developed for MotoGP.  Kawasaki is just putting all their money and effort into the WSBK factory team.

Yes it was. From 2002 to 2009 Kawasaki was involved  in motogp. They were never able to compete there.

Motogp bikes had started using electronics. Kawasaki soon abandoned their motogp project and introduced a wsbk bike full of electronics. Basically they took their motogp bike and homologated it for wsbk

That would be against WSBK rules as I understand it.  The WSBK bike must be a ZX10R and every go fast part on it available, over the counter to buyers like you and I.  They had to homologate that MotoGP bike as the ZX10R for sale to all, before they could use it in WSBK. 
« Last Edit: December 08, 2016, 09:16:08 am by TheBear »
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