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Author Topic: SOFT LUGGAGE....opinions.  (Read 11613 times)

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Offline P.K.

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Re: SOFT LUGGAGE....opinions.
« Reply #160 on: April 18, 2017, 09:25:43 am »
OK...so I did a ride to check out the damage to Swartberg Pass and then spent a LOT of time sitting looking at my bike and trying to come up with ideas for a soft luggage pannier system.
R & D takes time, but we will get there.....WATCH THIS SPACE !

I need these in my future.

Please add some adjustable straps for over/under the seat. My suggestion is a wide strap that goes over the seat with velcro on the ends and the soft velcro on the bags. You add the strap to the bike and then 'stick the bags at the height and angle you desire.  The bag then needs a few D rings (or clips) which you then use with some flat straps to secure the weight of the bag over the bike at the correct height for each bike.
Even a double D ring on the bag with straps that connect like in a helmet chin strap and velcro back onto itself to stay in place.

Imagine the bags and the centre stap being individual or separable items.


I have a Giant Loop bag and throwing ideas aroundito design.
Like I said...it takes time and I don`t want to blindly just copy something. There may well be overlapping of ideas / design, but I enjoy the challenge of trying to make it simple and above all , functional.
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Offline Carrots

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Re: SOFT LUGGAGE....opinions.
« Reply #161 on: April 18, 2017, 09:46:24 am »
Yes....simple and functional should be primary focus I agree.

I got these two Trax inner bags from a friend. I thought it would be nice if you can build me 2 x pannier bags that the Trax ones can fit in to. That way when you stop at night you don't have to remove the entire system from your bike only to put it back the next day. And on a 10 day trip that will become a nuisance very quickly.

So my quick thinking around this was to selectively put 4 d rings on the side that will be facing the pannier rack so that one can tie it with cable ties and additionally use other straps to fasten them more secure. They must be PVC  material please and zip that it shielded from dust and rain on the top so that that inners can easily be removed or put back when leaving again.

The Trax inner bags might be to be big but is just an idea.

I use a Flying Brick for the back of the bike.

Just an idea....what you think Pete?

Thanks.

Kerritz.
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Offline Sláinte Mhaith

Re: SOFT LUGGAGE....opinions.
« Reply #162 on: April 18, 2017, 09:52:47 am »
I have a Giant Loop bag and throwing ideas aroundito design.
Like I said...it takes time and I don`t want to blindly just copy something. There may well be overlapping of ideas / design, but I enjoy the challenge of trying to make it simple and above all , functional.

No please don't copy. Giant Loop is nice but not a flexible design. Just posted the image for an idea of the wide strap I am talking about.
Combine the wide strap with velcro and your bags in your image.

As per your previous bags you can probably custom make the size. That combined with some flexible strap on options to choose from will make for a flexible design over a wide range of bikes I think.
 

Offline P.K.

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Re: SOFT LUGGAGE....opinions.
« Reply #163 on: April 18, 2017, 02:45:59 pm »
I have a Giant Loop bag and throwing ideas aroundito design.
Like I said...it takes time and I don`t want to blindly just copy something. There may well be overlapping of ideas / design, but I enjoy the challenge of trying to make it simple and above all , functional.

No please don't copy. Giant Loop is nice but not a flexible design. Just posted the image for an idea of the wide strap I am talking about.
Combine the wide strap with velcro and your bags in your image.

As per your previous bags you can probably custom make the size. That combined with some flexible strap on options to choose from will make for a flexible design over a wide range of bikes I think.

YIP....THANKS
Your ideas are pretty much what i am thinking of , but looking at a few other ideas and will hopefully settle on the best!

Thanks for the input.

PETE.
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Offline Mpandla

Re: SOFT LUGGAGE....opinions.
« Reply #164 on: April 18, 2017, 04:31:22 pm »
Thanks Pete. That was speedy service indeed!
Bags arrived and will try them out soon.
Good quality product and looking forward to see what else you will offer in the future  :thumleft:
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Offline Xpat

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Re: SOFT LUGGAGE....opinions.
« Reply #165 on: April 18, 2017, 09:10:15 pm »
OK, I'll try again to loby for the holster system backbone luggage. I have Mosko Moto Reckless 40 and am ordering 80 now from US (and rather not going to disclose price I'm going to pay - it hurts). I just came from 2 week proper DS trip and works like a charm and doesn't require racks (which is important for me to keep the luggage hugging the bike with resulting rigidity and minimum effect on  handling).

You make it and I buy it. I'm not saying to copy it exactly, but to be honest nobody has patent on the holster system with backbone. It was started with Giant Loop, and not is being produced by Altrider and Mosko Moto. I do not think anybody can claim that they own backbone luggage (actually AlanB here on the forum is/was making one as well localy). As long as you just don't copy the design blindly (and I have suggestions on improvements they don't have!), I do not see it as ripping them off anymore than you are ripping of other manufacturers of the rollie bags with your current line of bags.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2017, 09:10:53 pm by Xpat »
 

Offline Xpat

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Re: SOFT LUGGAGE....opinions.
« Reply #166 on: April 18, 2017, 09:20:40 pm »
Here is the improvement I'm talking about - make it easy to underhang additional bag for extended space (the orange one). I didn't need it when I was riding in civilization as I didn't need to carry lots of water. When I dived into Kalahari my whole right holster was taken with water bag with 9 litres of water, so I packed lighter stuff into waterproof bag and underhang it under holster. Worked fine with Mosko Moto but it is not intended for that so straps are nor spaced properly - if you build it with that intention already, will work like charm. I have ridden about 3.5k km of hard riding and loved the set-up.

Offline Dustdevil

Re: SOFT LUGGAGE....opinions.
« Reply #167 on: April 19, 2017, 01:01:13 am »
Pete which Giant Loop bags do you have?
While the Coyote bags were a nice fit for smaller bikes the Great Basin is simply unbeatable.
The simplicity and robust design will be hard to improve on and I agree that you should not copy it but I believe that you can come up with a simpler bag without too much trim and rather try and keep the price down without compromising on the toughness of these bags.
The only reason why anybody won't use these bags should be because they are taking a pillion or simply don't know about them.
Cost should really not be in one's equation because if you can afford a bike you can afford one of these bags.

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Offline Xpat

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Re: SOFT LUGGAGE....opinions.
« Reply #168 on: April 19, 2017, 07:03:39 am »
Pete which Giant Loop bags do you have?
While the Coyote bags were a nice fit for smaller bikes the Great Basin is simply unbeatable.
The simplicity and robust design will be hard to improve on and I agree that you should not copy it but I believe that you can come up with a simpler bag without too much trim and rather try and keep the price down without compromising on the toughness of these bags.
The only reason why anybody won't use these bags should be because they are taking a pillion or simply don't know about them.
Cost should really not be in one's equation because if you can afford a bike you can afford one of these bags.

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Sorry, I disagree. I have Great Basin, used it once and dont like it at all. While I like that backbone luggage (i.e. that U shaped base that wraps around the bike without need for racks and is more rigid that racked stuff), the evolution of that type of luggage with holster system with three separate bags instead of one U bag provided by Mosko Moto Reckless bags and (to lesser extent) by Altrider Hemisphere, is vastly superior.

The disadvantages of Great Basin are:
- One U shaped bag, so that one doesn't have flexibility ot move for example top part (i.e. where the rollie bag is) further back (while one may prefer to have side bags as further up as possible for good weight distribution - COG centralization). As it is one bag the whole thing moves together so either it is too much upfront for COG centralization (or trying to avoid overweighting weak subframe) with back getting in the way for enthusiastic riding, or it is to far back affecting weight distribution
- It is bitch to get into, to the point where one prefers not to go in during the day.
- The volume cannot be extended unlike on holster system, and everything is tight fit - hence difficult to get into. THe rolling closing is vastly superior IMO to zipper - allows for extended spare if needed, and much easier to open close if the bags are full - it is just bitch to try to close the zipper when GB is full. Using zippers on the GB is just slly IMO (I may be wrong, but newer version may have moved to rollie opening).

In my experience the 2nd generation of the bakbone luggage with holster system ane separate bags is just vastly better than one piece type like Great Basin.

Offline Xpat

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Re: SOFT LUGGAGE....opinions.
« Reply #169 on: April 19, 2017, 08:42:44 am »
Here are few more images of the Mosko Moto 40 luggage without the top rollie bag, to give you an idea what the holster system is (as there is noone selling that in SA now - except for Chris - zebra, who sells altrider version):





« Last Edit: April 19, 2017, 08:43:57 am by Xpat »
 

Offline Buff

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Re: SOFT LUGGAGE....opinions.
« Reply #170 on: April 19, 2017, 08:50:01 am »
That's exactly what I'm looking for on my 690 but there's no ways I can afford those Mosko's. Go for it Pete  ;D :thumleft:
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Offline P.K.

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Re: SOFT LUGGAGE....opinions.
« Reply #171 on: April 19, 2017, 09:00:38 am »
Ah Xpat....a voice from the wilderness ! 

Your point ito SEPARATE side bags is exactly what I thought and that is definately the way I am going,
Hopefully with some sort of adjustment mechanism so riders can customize to their bike / riding style.

However, NOMAD BIKE BAGS is a sideline for me ito earning my daily bread and I have to fit in my surfing as well, so its a slow process developing new products and this will be no exception.

I will post developments on this thread.
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Offline P.K.

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Re: SOFT LUGGAGE....opinions.
« Reply #172 on: April 19, 2017, 09:03:31 am »
That's exactly what I'm looking for on my 690 but there's no ways I can afford those Mosko's. Go for it Pete  ;D :thumleft:

The Mosko Moto range is FANTASTIC !!
The level of thought and planning that has gone into the product is mind boggling and I will not match it.

However, in line with NOMAD`S philosophy, we will try to develop something simple, functional and affordable....watch this space !!
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Offline Sláinte Mhaith

Re: SOFT LUGGAGE....opinions.
« Reply #173 on: April 19, 2017, 09:48:00 am »
However, NOMAD BIKE BAGS is a sideline for me ito earning my daily bread and I have to fit in my surfing as well, so its a slow process developing new products and this will be no exception.

You started this thread mid Feb thus just a little over 2 months now and a lot has been done. Not slow going in my books.

However, in line with NOMAD`S philosophy, we will try to develop something simple, functional and affordable....watch this space !!

 :thumleft: and flexible too
 

Offline Dustdevil

Re: SOFT LUGGAGE....opinions.
« Reply #174 on: April 19, 2017, 09:54:27 am »
Xpat while I would agree with you that a modular system has many advantages over a single design like the GB from Giant Loop it also has some major drawbacks in the it loses simplicity and becomes far more fiddly and can take forever to attach and remove all the separate parts. This complicated arrangement also makes the bags much more expensive.
While I have no experience of the Mosco Moto products I have used just about everything in the past including hard luggage which is still a winner for two up riding.
The Bac Bones luggage was well balanced on the bike but oh what a pain to fit or remove especially those side rollies. The top bag could never be securely attached and kept on moving around on the pillion seat, didn't keep out rain or dust and ripped quite easily.
The way the Bac Bones distributed the weight and increased the handling of the bike and held up to falls and crashes because of its close proximity to the bike inspired me to import the Giant Loop gear to SA.
I arranged for a demo bag from them and took it trough Namibia on one of Simon Fouries Desert runs and afterward some crazy stuff circulating Brandberg.
Why I love GL; it is tough as nails, it is extremely simple in design, it fits the bike like a glove and sits very secure without moving around, it can be removed in seconds and be flung over a shoulder and be carried a considerable distance quiet comfortably. This is something we have had to do many times to get bikes through some really impossible sections especially in Lesotho.
I agree that zippers can be a weak point in any luggage system but I have never found them to be troublesome as I always trim my luggage down to a comfortable fit and still found I am taking stuff that aren't 100% necessary.
I must add that the Great Basin worked great with the inner bags. These keeps everything neatly arranged inside the bag and makes it very easy to reach even the deepest buried items without having stuff unpacked all over the show.
I can't image the bag will be very functional without these inner bags.
When I sold them it was sold as a package and included all the inner bags.

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« Last Edit: April 19, 2017, 02:41:47 pm by Dustdevil »
 

Offline Xpat

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Re: SOFT LUGGAGE....opinions.
« Reply #175 on: April 19, 2017, 12:30:12 pm »
Dustdevil, if the GL works for you then enjoy  :thumleft: We may have different preferences.

I just wanted to clarify - as it seems I may not have been clear enough - that Mosko Moto (as well as Altrider Hemisphere - which is by the way done by people who designed GL products and then moved on) are not two separate bags - as in standard saddle bags. They are basically exactly what GL GB is - i.e. backbone (or whatever it is called) thrown over the bike, but with holsters attached on each side instead of one piece bag just sawn in. You then just slot dry bags (or whatever you want) into those holsters and fasten them with strap.

So in terms of attaching or disataching the system to/from the bike it is exactly the same as GL GB, and provides same rigidity as it hugs the bike in exactly the same way through the backbone. But in terms of ease of use, flexibility and I dare to say durability, way ahead IMO. As I said it is generation 2 of backbone (that is my word - not sure what is that thing that provides basis for this kind of luggage) luggage.

Here is link to the mosko moto site with pictures and videos if my explanation is not clear:

https://moskomoto.com/collections/moto-camping-luggage/products/reckless-40l-system

« Last Edit: April 19, 2017, 12:42:59 pm by Xpat »
 

Offline P.K.

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Re: SOFT LUGGAGE....opinions.
« Reply #176 on: April 19, 2017, 02:19:41 pm »
The evolution continues....

Scratching my head ito trying to secure them in a simple, yet functional way.

Next step is to integrate them with a "yoke" to go over the seat with the option of a fitted tailpack accross the seat.
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Offline P.K.

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Re: SOFT LUGGAGE....opinions.
« Reply #177 on: April 19, 2017, 02:20:56 pm »
Pics
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Offline Dustdevil

Re: SOFT LUGGAGE....opinions.
« Reply #178 on: April 19, 2017, 03:25:03 pm »
Dustdevil, if the GL works for you then enjoy  :thumleft: We may have different preferences.

I just wanted to clarify - as it seems I may not have been clear enough - that Mosko Moto (as well as Altrider Hemisphere - which is by the way done by people who designed GL products and then moved on) are not two separate bags - as in standard saddle bags. They are basically exactly what GL GB is - i.e. backbone (or whatever it is called) thrown over the bike, but with holsters attached on each side instead of one piece bag just sawn in. You then just slot dry bags (or whatever you want) into those holsters and fasten them with strap.

So in terms of attaching or disataching the system to/from the bike it is exactly the same as GL GB, and provides same rigidity as it hugs the bike in exactly the same way through the backbone. But in terms of ease of use, flexibility and I dare to say durability, way ahead IMO. As I said it is generation 2 of backbone (that is my word - not sure what is that thing that provides basis for this kind of luggage) luggage.

Here is link to the mosko moto site with pictures and videos if my explanation is not clear:

https://moskomoto.com/collections/moto-camping-luggage/products/reckless-40l-system


Visited their website and it makes a lot of sense.
One solid saddle bag style structure that wraps over the seat, attaches to the pillion foot peg brackets and the rear carrier.
Whether it is one inclusive bag or a modular system as long as it attaches in this way it will work great.
What is important though is that the luggage pack must form a single unit once attached to allow it to securely stay in place on the bike.
Pete needs to invest in a system like that. The basic back bone structure is the core of this concept and must form the basis of any successful system.
Some copying of that aspect of this idea will have to happen but the way the rest of the system fits together and the exact shape of individual bags and extra features can be done to individual taste.
I prefer a system to have no trimmings like pouches, clear panels, backpack straps etc and be focused to just do the one job it's designed for and that is to keep the bulk of one's luggage securely on the bike while interfering with the handling as little as possible.
Make it durable but cut costs by cutting the trimmings.

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Offline P.K.

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Re: SOFT LUGGAGE....opinions.
« Reply #179 on: April 19, 2017, 03:50:20 pm »
Exactly my sentiments Dustdevil...it will take a bit of time, but I`m pretty confident we can come up with something that is functional.

Not always easy to please everybody, so I`m going with my `default setting`, which is "function over form"....I will do the colour coded trimming if client`s want that , but I really enjoy trying to make something that would work for ME...and that tends to be a bit minimalist for most.

That said, we are really a custom bike bag manufacturer and really want to be able to make whatever individual riders want....we see this flexibility of manufacturing as key to our growth in the future.

PETE.
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