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Author Topic: TE/SM 610 Check Counter Balancer Torque!  (Read 417 times)

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Offline BiG DoM

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TE/SM 610 Check Counter Balancer Torque!
« on: May 18, 2017, 07:15:50 am »
On my trip to the EC Bash this past weekend my normally trusty Husky suddenly developed a vibration after an especially rough marbly section of gravel. I checked usual culprits of thumper voluntary bolt extraction  ::) … engine mounting bolts etc. The bad vibes were though definitely from the engine and seemed to subtly oscillate in a pattern. Oil level was good and engine not noticeably too down on power - at first I was cursing thinking big end failure  :-[ Anyway with a Baviaans trip in the balance I decided to fokvoort but at a conservative pace. At the back of my mind an old posting in ADVRider or CafeH rang a bell … counterbalancer … counterbalancer …

Having searched the archived threads it certainly looks like I am another victim - I thought this problem only affected the early pre-2009 TE/SM's but apparently not. I have yet to pull the side cover but will this weekend. Essentially the retaining nut (a massive 38mm jobbie) is not properly torqued ex-factory and despite having a lipped over washer comes loose allowing the shaft to rotate and often damaging the woodruff key (which is only there to really locate the balancer not secure it - this is done by the pressure of the nut … torque is meant to be 100Nm and some reports are that it is barely tight). I am hoping the woodruff key has not disintegrated and damaged anything else. Evidently the oscillation felt is the shaft spinning and then hooking the balancer momentarily.

So do yourselves a favour and check this main bolt and the one behind the clutch while about it. Probably not more than an hours job and can be done even without dropping the oil if you lie the bike on its left side. Good excuse to check the bag oil filter while in there as well.

I will post some pics when I get it apart but can look here for the jist:

http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/urgent-reading-for-husky-owners-te-sm-610s.141762/
« Last Edit: May 18, 2017, 02:38:49 pm by BiG DoM »
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Offline Kykdaar

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Re: TE/SM 610 Check Counter Balancer Torque!
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2017, 08:08:52 am »
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Offline Straatkat

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Re: TE/SM 610 Check Counter Balancer Torque!
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2017, 11:49:30 am »
Yes BD, Paul took my motor apart and found the counterbalancer nut loose again. I want to believe the factory slipped up and did not tighten the nut, but lets be realistic, why would they forget to do this rather basic engine assembly task?
My story is that I found my counterbalancer nut loose when I did my clutch washers at 10 000km so I torqued it properly. After the seize, Paul took the motor apart and found the nut loose again, actually almost finger loose!!. Here is the thing, we must check the tightness of this 38mm nut as a regular service item every time we change oil and/or check the strainer. It comes loose by itself! We tell ourselves that the tab will prevent loosening but this is not so, check it at least every 5000km.
Just another quirk we need to observe.
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Offline sidetrack

Re: TE/SM 610 Check Counter Balancer Torque!
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2017, 12:17:09 pm »
Husky keeps you on your toes  :biggrin:
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Ride reports :
http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=134175.0 Penge's pass and the Old Forest http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=9421.0 - Orange Atlantic adventure http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=7514.0 - 805 km day trip http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=20260.0 - East Cape Bash http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=70199.0 - Two KTM thumpers head north
 

Offline Welsh

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Re: TE/SM 610 Check Counter Balancer Torque!
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2017, 12:26:42 pm »
Loktite?
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Offline BiG DoM

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Re: TE/SM 610 Check Counter Balancer Torque!
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2017, 01:40:54 pm »
Loktite?

Yes that is what I will use. One hears different takes on Loktite use within an engine - not sure exactly why … what's your position Welsh?
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Offline Welsh

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Re: TE/SM 610 Check Counter Balancer Torque!
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2017, 02:03:20 pm »
Loktite?

Yes that is what I will use. One hears different takes on Loktite use within an engine - not sure exactly why … what's your position Welsh?

Also agree if you pick the right grade, Loctite 278 has good resistance, at 1000 hours in engine oil at 125C it has 70% of original breakaway strength.  8)
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Offline BiG DoM

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Re: TE/SM 610 Check Counter Balancer Torque!
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2017, 02:15:12 pm »
Loktite?

Yes that is what I will use. One hears different takes on Loktite use within an engine - not sure exactly why … what's your position Welsh?

Also agree if you pick the right grade, Loctite 278 has good resistance, at 1000 hours in engine oil at 125C it has 70% of original breakaway strength.  8)

Good info, thanks. I knew you were the guy to ask. Regarding woodruff keys I believe the one I need is a #9 - is this right that they come numbered and is there generally one type? Relatively easy to source?
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Offline Welsh

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Re: TE/SM 610 Check Counter Balancer Torque!
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2017, 02:30:24 pm »
Loktite?

Yes that is what I will use. One hears different takes on Loktite use within an engine - not sure exactly why … what's your position Welsh?

Also agree if you pick the right grade, Loctite 278 has good resistance, at 1000 hours in engine oil at 125C it has 70% of original breakaway strength.  8)

Good info, thanks. I knew you were the guy to ask. Regarding woodruff keys I believe the one I need is a #9 - is this right that they come numbered and is there generally one type? Relatively easy to source?

Not in my info, there are two basic standards, a DIN and a BS and only the BS refers to a "number" BUT they are four digit numbers not single digit, you need thickness, height and length, should still be reasonably easy to source (except in Grahamstown) let me know if you need help  ::) :biggrin:
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Offline BiG DoM

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Re: TE/SM 610 Check Counter Balancer Torque!
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2017, 02:36:25 pm »
Thanks - hopefully it is still intact to measure when I pull the shaft  :o
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Offline Welsh

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Re: TE/SM 610 Check Counter Balancer Torque!
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2017, 03:38:48 pm »
Thanks - hopefully it is still intact to measure when I pull the shaft  :o
should be enough to measure
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Offline Kykdaar

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Re: TE/SM 610 Check Counter Balancer Torque!
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2017, 06:10:03 pm »
You can order the right woodruff keyes from Bikers Warehouse >:D
 

Offline BiG DoM

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Re: TE/SM 610 Check Counter Balancer Torque!
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2017, 06:51:01 pm »
You can order the right woodruff keyes from Bikers Warehouse >:D

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Re: TE/SM 610 Check Counter Balancer Torque!
« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2017, 07:26:45 pm »
Appreciate the heads-up!

More maintenance, but worth it on this awesome scoot!


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Offline Kykdaar

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Re: TE/SM 610 Check Counter Balancer Torque!
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2017, 07:27:17 pm »
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Offline TK

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Re: TE/SM 610 Check Counter Balancer Torque!
« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2017, 09:09:39 pm »
Having my motor worked on by Paul this same conversation came up.......Pauls statement on this (and with many years experience as a bike mechanic)  is that the vibtration/resinance of the motor on some bikes causes the nut to tighten and on other bikes (as with our. Huskies) to loosen.
 I think that Berty tightened his overspec only to find it loose again. A descent locktight may do the job but probably best to put it down as a priority on the maintanance schedule. Even with locktite you're going to check it anyway.
 

Offline BiG DoM

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Re: TE/SM 610 Check Counter Balancer Torque!
« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2017, 09:19:05 pm »
Hmm interesting. I also think to ensure the threads are dry of oil before torqueing will help along with Loktite. A good example of where a paint strip marking could be useful to check nut at a glance. May even be able to check it through the oil filler??  :patch:
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Offline BiG DoM

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Re: TE/SM 610 Check Counter Balancer Torque!
« Reply #17 on: May 19, 2017, 09:47:44 pm »
Just an update - only got to pull the cover this evening and yes indeed as suspected was the counterbalanced nut… it was literally finger tight. I flattened the washer tab and put the socket on (I borrowed one as is larger than most sets go) and literally could turn the nut off by hand  :o  What is interesting is that the washer has a cut-out and small tang that locates it in the woodruff groove and so if properly torqued in position and then flattened against the nut it should not be able to come loose … yet we know it can and does. As the Yanks say 'Go Figure!'  Having seen this I find it hard to believe that if properly fitted to start with that it can back out due to any centrifugal force etc. The woodruff key was badly worn and had a broken piece off it but fortunately captured in the groove. Anyway going to pull clutch now and check other nut and look at how my upgraded clutch washers are doing (another good reason to tear into the motor a bit).
« Last Edit: May 19, 2017, 10:52:25 pm by BiG DoM »
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Offline Straatkat

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Re: TE/SM 610 Check Counter Balancer Torque!
« Reply #18 on: May 20, 2017, 01:17:18 am »
Rest assured the clutch washers will be A-OK. ;)
Yes it is difficult to understand how that nut works itself loose, I personally would be cautious with loctite here as it is quite a large diameter thread with lots of surface area on the thread/nut interface and it may become a problem in future if you want to strip the engine for whatever reason, but then again some heat will loosen it up.
BD is that nut visible through the oil filler cap? If so then it would be a very good idea to paint a reference line on. But that cover has to come off in any case to clean the oil strainer.
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Offline BiG DoM

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Re: TE/SM 610 Check Counter Balancer Torque!
« Reply #19 on: May 20, 2017, 06:36:15 am »
I have still to check whether a reference paint line will be visible through the oil filler - as you say one needs to check the bag filter anyway. The clutch washers look like the day they were born  >:D I am still thinking some resistant Loktite like Welsh suggests but will make that call when I get the woodruff key next week (hopefully as this is the Wild EC out here … Welsh may be an SOS  8)). For reference it is 19 x 7.5 x 5 mm (l x h x w) - yes seems a strange size but looking at listings it is a standard size … I suspect they are a mixture of imperial and metric conversions.
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