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Offline the_BOBNOB

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Re: New Rockfox soft luggage in the works
« Reply #40 on: June 23, 2017, 05:44:58 am »
Looking good

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Re: New Rockfox soft luggage in the works
« Reply #41 on: June 28, 2017, 05:38:54 pm »
Can you please be so kind as to post a picture of HOW the attachment points look? And how the bags attach to the frames? Prototype is obviously a prototype but I cant see the mechanism anywhere?
Especially where it goes onto the frame / pannier racks? The seat I assume is a seat.

I know everyone has their own opinions and what they look for. But If I buy these bags (I am in the market for bags that can take a knock and Zebra thinks these are great)
I have 2 small gripes:

1 - I need these things to STAY on the bike even if it moers of a small mountain, I ride rocks and mud and sand, and more importantly I fall... more than I should, and rocks f@ch things up  :imaposer: I want ratchet straps feed through welded sliders (loops) for SERIOUS attachment opportunity to the frame similar to a compression strap, when I dont need it I slide it out and it is protected by the bag and the bag still does not have "catch points" strap feeds for horizontal and vertical beefing up (so just a continuous weld channel as far as possible ). Removal should be via crowbar not 20 seconds in that case. That gives me complete versatility, so adventure riding vs weekend pretenda-riding. That also means my luggage frame shape and attachment points becomes less of an issue.

2 - Waterproof single system etc all great, sorely needed and excellent material. But this now means I need to buy the ATG inner bags as I cannot put that amount of muddy gear down anywhere nor want to remove the bags from the frame as they look like crap at that point and are welded in place, see point 1. It is simply filthy. Nothing as nice as to throw clean inner bags in the odd hotel but more importantly into my tent. The nice thing is these bags will insure my ATG inners are dry and clean, but why do I want to go get ATG separate when I can support the same manufacturer. I suck at getting clean things out of dirty panniers and eventually everything is full of mud. And no on the cutlines you do not have water for washing a pannier, that means you are then in Sandton glamping.

Other than that they look like the business!  :thumleft:





« Last Edit: June 28, 2017, 06:07:20 pm by Sandvreter »
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Offline jeff

Re: New Rockfox soft luggage in the works
« Reply #42 on: June 28, 2017, 05:56:35 pm »
Can you please be so kind as to post a picture of HOW the attachment points look? And how the bags attach to the frames? Prototype is obviously a prototype but I cant see the mechanism anywhere?
Especially where it goes onto the frame / pannier racks? The seat I assume is a seat.

I know everyone has their own opinions and what they look for. But If I buy these bags (I am in the market for bags that can take a knock and Zebra thinks these are great)
I have 2 small gripes:

1 - I need these things to STAY on the bike even if it moers of a small mountain, I ride rocks and mud and sand, and more importantly I fall... more than I should, and rocks f@ch things up  :imaposer: I want ratchet straps feed through welded sliders (loops) for SERIOUS attachment opportunity to the frame similar to a compression strap, when I dont need it I slide it out and it is protected by the bag and the bag still does not have "catch points" for horizontal and vertical (so just a continuous weld channel ). Removal should be via crowbar not 20 seconds in that case. That gives me complete versatility, so adventure riding vs weekend pretenda-riding. That also means my luggage frame shape and attachment points becomes less of an issue.

2 - Waterproof single system etc all great, sorely needed and excellent material. But this now means I need to buy the ATG inner bags as I cannot put that amount of muddy gear down anywhere nor want to remove the bags from the frame as they look like crap at that point and are welded in place, see point 1. It is simply filthy. Nothing as nice as to throw clean inner bags in the odd hotel but more importantly into my tent. The nice thing is these bags will insure my ATG inners are dry and clean, but why do I want to go get ATG separate when I can support the same manufacturer. I suck at getting clean things out of dirty panniers and eventually everything is full of mud. And no on the cutlines you do not have water for washing a pannier, that means you are then in Sandton glamping.

Other than that they look like the business!  :thumleft:
Wow . Some shit that I would never have thought of.........
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Offline Weedkiller - Adie

Re: New Rockfox soft luggage in the works
« Reply #43 on: June 28, 2017, 07:56:34 pm »
Can you please be so kind as to post a picture of HOW the attachment points look? And how the bags attach to the frames? Prototype is obviously a prototype but I cant see the mechanism anywhere?
Especially where it goes onto the frame / pannier racks? The seat I assume is a seat.

I know everyone has their own opinions and what they look for. But If I buy these bags (I am in the market for bags that can take a knock and Zebra thinks these are great)
I have 2 small gripes:

1 - I need these things to STAY on the bike even if it moers of a small mountain, I ride rocks and mud and sand, and more importantly I fall... more than I should, and rocks f@ch things up  :imaposer: I want ratchet straps feed through welded sliders (loops) for SERIOUS attachment opportunity to the frame similar to a compression strap, when I dont need it I slide it out and it is protected by the bag and the bag still does not have "catch points" strap feeds for horizontal and vertical beefing up (so just a continuous weld channel as far as possible ). Removal should be via crowbar not 20 seconds in that case. That gives me complete versatility, so adventure riding vs weekend pretenda-riding. That also means my luggage frame shape and attachment points becomes less of an issue.

2 - Waterproof single system etc all great, sorely needed and excellent material. But this now means I need to buy the ATG inner bags as I cannot put that amount of muddy gear down anywhere nor want to remove the bags from the frame as they look like crap at that point and are welded in place, see point 1. It is simply filthy. Nothing as nice as to throw clean inner bags in the odd hotel but more importantly into my tent. The nice thing is these bags will insure my ATG inners are dry and clean, but why do I want to go get ATG separate when I can support the same manufacturer. I suck at getting clean things out of dirty panniers and eventually everything is full of mud. And no on the cutlines you do not have water for washing a pannier, that means you are then in Sandton glamping.

Other than that they look like the business!  :thumleft:

OK, dit gaan moeilik wees om die een te antwoord. 
Soms wil ons iets hÍ wat nie bestaan, soms iets wat nooit gaan werk en soms, net soms, kry ons ites wat aan al ons vereistes voldoen.  Gaan hierdie sakke aan jou vereistes voldoen? Dit weet ek nie so, hiermee net bietjie meer agtergrond en detail.

a) Mounting points. NONE.  (die fiets moet reeds rakke op het.  ENIGE rakke  wat naastenby aan die SW Motech/Touratech/Bmw/Rockfox mates is. (rondom 350*250 mm)
Daar is twee horisontale 38mm straps met common plestiek YKK buckles wat OM die bestaande rakke vastrek. Dit gee 4 INDIVIDUELE vasheg punte aan die raam.   Hierdie 4 punte dra basies geen gewig en is net daar om die sakke in plek te hou.  Twee 50mm straps TUSSEN die sakke gaan oor die saal en dra die meeste van die gewig. As die sakke opgesit word pas die vasheg punt mooi op die boonste horisontale pyp van die raam.  daar is dus geen moontlikheid dat die sakke kan 'sag' en soos nat aartappelsakke 'flop' nie.  As hierdie 6 punte aan elke sak vasgetrek is raak die sak amper een met die raam in enige rigting behalwe opwaarts.  Op die Rockfox rakke is die beweging ongeveer 15mm en mens moet hard trek om dit te lig aangesien die onderste horisontale strap ONDER van die monteerpunte gaan.  'n bietjie meer op die S W Motech  rakke.


Your point 1:
Daar is 40mm plastiek 'D' links aan die horisontale straps waardeur jy die sakke met bloudraad kan vasmaak as jy wil. Horisontaal en vertikaal rondom die rakke en rakke sonder dat daar ENIGE 'protrusion' aan die 'buitekant' van die sakke is. Omdat daar geen 'werklike' spesifikasie rondom die rame is asook opsies om die sakke 'beter' vas te maak kan mens die dakke enigiets tussen 20sek en 2 minute met bloed en tang los of vasmaak.  ;D

Your point 2:
Daar word reeds gewerk aan (opsionele) 'inners' vir die sakke.  Ons oorweeg baie dun materiaal wat absolute minimum plek opneem.  Ons het nognie finale besluit rondom waterdigtheid van die sakke gemaak maar gaan heel moontlik van daai 'water werende' materiaal soos fietsryers se baadjies wees.  Die idee is egter dat daar liewer twee sakke(ies) per groot sak moet wees.  As jy reg pak hoef jy net een of twee kleintjies in te neem as jy in gastehuis slaap.  Die ander twee het vuil klere ens ens ens in wat nie elke dag gebruik hoef te word.
   
** End **
Ok, rondom die plastiek knippe, D links ens.  Meer wat na die sakke by die Kyalami Bike Fest gekyk het het die gebruik van 'Breekbare' items bevraagteken.  In ons ontwerp analise moes ons kies tussen 'breek iets herstelbaar' of 'skeur dit uit'. Ek het al meer as een sagte sak verloor omdat die geskeur het  met die val.  Ons het besluit dat daar dan 'n "weak point" moet wees wat maklik langs die pad reggemaak kan word. Buckles en D links kan maklik met Cableties vervang word.  Mike se Wolfmans was met 4 cableties aan die rak vas toe hy geval het.  Drie het 'gesnap' en die sak het onder die fiets uitgekom tydens sy gly oor die teer.  Die sak het net 'n klein teer skaafmerk opgedoen.

Daar was ook lang gesprekke oor die waarborg en hoe die sakke getoets gaan word. (Daar was nogal komiese voorstelle oor die toetsing - wie gaan sy fiets leen sodat ons kan gaan val -  >:D

Die waarborg is 'n "no brainer".  Die sakke is onderhewig aan 'n 100% waarborg tot iets breek.  Dan verval die waarborg.  :pot: 
Ons het oorweeg om die eerste paar stelle teen 'n spesiale prys beskikbaar te stel met 'n lewenslange waarborg. (Ons oorweeg dubbel die prys)

Gisteraand die CAD tekening opdateer en die tweede stel begin sny.  Ons kry Maandag opleiding op die sweismasjien  - kan nie wag.

Sal binnekort 'n foto van die nuwe sak opsit.

Adie
Laat ons Stof maak.
 

Offline Tampan

Re: New Rockfox soft luggage in the works
« Reply #44 on: June 28, 2017, 08:44:58 pm »
Ek kannie wag nie. Soek beslis ' n stel Adie, asb.
 

Online Sandvreter

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Re: New Rockfox soft luggage in the works
« Reply #45 on: June 28, 2017, 08:55:08 pm »
Dankie vir die terug voer Adie.
Soos ek noem ek het nog nie die sakke self onder oŽ gehad nie en die fotos is min, so dit is moeilik. Die verduideliking het BAIE gehelp.
Waar ons wel verskil is oor die "weak points" , ek is ernstig as ek sÍ ek wil die goed ratchet strap, geen plastiek D-ring, lekker cover channels vir rox straps, ratchet straps ens ens weens 2 redes.
1 - stadige valle is opwaards vertikale kragte, alles op die design is gemik vir afwaards vertikaal of horisontaal en dit is waar ek nog altyd sukkel met sagte bagasie. (pivot points, die outjies neig om te draai) so hoekom wil ek my ketting / sprocket / engine/clutch / agter briek disc hoŽ blootstelling gee.

2- Die " sacrificial" punt... en moet my asb nie verkeerd verstaan nie met die volgende stelling. Wat my spesifiek trek na jou tasse is SPESIFIEK die feit dat dit hoŽ kwaliteit is en hier is die ding bekostigbaar! Wind the clock back. Ek val teen 140km 'n uur in Namibia op ' D dirt road (moenie vra nie) met die nuwe 800 GSA pimped up beemer met my allu panniers op ('n glamp solo trippie). Die "weak point" is die agterste sluit meganisme op die pannier en dan unlock hy horisontaal na agter om af te haal/val af volgens sy vervaardiging. Ek kyk hoe my fiets gly terwyl ek ander stadiger agterna gly, geen probleem R4800 vir die pannier. Die slot meganisme los omtrent dadelik, pannier af en fiets gly aan.
Pillion voet peg hak 'n versteekte klip (seriously seker 3 of 5 cm wat uitsteek maar hy gly op daardie stadium) op 'n 180 grade wiele paralel in die rigting  , buig my hele subframe binne in my tank in en slaan my bike dat hy so hop. R86 000 se skade. As die pannier aan gebly het... R4800 se alluminium met 'n gat in en niks verder want ek sou dit geclear het met die crash bars en die pannier, want in my oŽ en ek hoop elke biker se oŽ : bike protection is sacrificial , soos 'n helmet na 'n val en so ook die panniers. Ek kan goed vas-strap na 'n val, gebuigde crashbars ruk en pluk of af bout maar ek kan nie 'n gebuigde staal subframe en gat in my brandstof tenk iets aan doen nie. Lugguage-disposable, als in die kant panniers- disposable . Water en brandstof en om te kan verder ry- 'n moet. Die goeie nuus is neuk ek dit op verkoop jy nog 'n stel aan my  >:D

Soos jy sÍ baie moeilik maar dit is waar ek sukkel om van die Mosko motos af te kom.
Ek benodig nie 'n raamwerk nie, met joune doen ek en dit is geen probleem want ek verkies 'n raamwerk, gee vorm en goeie heg punte, maar hulle strap vir opwaards horisontaal (Mosko) en dit is waar ek bietjie vasberand. Hoekom cater so min sisteme vir dit en natuurlik Cam buckles.... die goed vat 'n knock, werk adisionele plastiek D ring in vir na die val, cheap.
Die moskos, hulle is vrek duur en ek gaan hulle breek, en huil. Joune is besonders bekostigbaar en  :pot: ek gaan nie net goed slaap na ek hulle breek nie ek gaan nog 'n stel koop.

Ek dink regtig die is die bagasie maar ek dink ons kyk met verskillende oŽ na dit. Jy soek 'n produk wat kwaliteit is en lank gaan hou, en ek kyk na die as 'n dekselse goeie 2 doelige aplikasie- bagasie en beskerming. Maar jy is besig met vervaardiging en sekerlik kan ....2 reekse dalk lekker wees? Super reinforced wat is fout met jou dude wat Metal Jockey op 'n trip sal vat en normale mense een?

Ook baie bly julle kyk na die inner. Dit is soos jy sÍ perfek om die dun materiaal te gebruik. Kudos vir al die werk wat al in dit ingegaan het.
Mag ek vra.... sjoe die is soos 'n wish list wet dream.... enige kans vir 'n auto one way deflation valve op daai sak vir waneer jy hom oprol en sommer op hom gaan sit? sorry ek pak tiiiiiight.
Ps, opinies is soos 'n neus, ons almal het een  :lol8: ek ook maar.
pps sodra flying brick een inkry koop ek hom, my trip begin 1 September....
« Last Edit: June 28, 2017, 08:59:26 pm by Sandvreter »
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Offline Weedkiller - Adie

Re: New Rockfox soft luggage in the works
« Reply #46 on: June 28, 2017, 10:55:41 pm »
@Sandvreter

Lank lank gelede op die forum het ek iewers gepraat van 'Co-operative development'. (Post 10 Pg1)  Dit is presies wat hierdie 'gesprek' tussen ons eintlik is.  Aan die einde van die dag is dit ons mikpunt om 'n 'beter' produk teen 'n kompeterende prys te voorsien.  >:D

Dit is moontlik om 'cam buckles' aan die sakke te sit sonder enige herontwerp. Dit vervang net die bestaande 38mm plastiek buckle.  Dit kan selfs deur die klient se vrou/girlfrien/boyfriend met naald en gare aangesit word.  ;D

Die totale swart sakke maak fotos moeilik.  Die produksie modelle het GEEL panele wat as 'daytime' hi-viz dien.  Fotos sal dus ook beter uitkom.  Ons het intussen ook van 550gsm na 600gsm materiaal beweeg asook van 25mm na 38mm vasmaak straps vir nog meer sterkte. Omtrent geen ekstra gewig omdat die volume nou 'regtig' 31l soos ontwerp spesifikasie.

Die voordeel  van die ontwerp is dat behalwe vir die HF welder panele kan daar met min moeite wysigings gemaak word.  Ons het reeds navraag van 'n motorfiets verhuur firma waar hulle nie so gepla is oor absolute gewig nie maar eerder oor duursaamheid.

Die feit dat die sak waterdig is maak dit nogal moeilik om die lug uit te kry as die bek meer as twee keer opgerol is. Ek strap dit eers aan die fiets so vas as moontlik en maak dit dan bo toe.  Na n' paar keer se probeer werk dit heel ok.

Geen probleem met opinies (goed of sleg) aan die einde verbeter dit die produk. (hopelik)

Adie
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Offline Weedkiller - Adie

Re: New Rockfox soft luggage in the works
« Reply #47 on: September 03, 2017, 10:55:56 pm »
Ok, the new workshop is built - not complete yet but at least we can get some of the projects out of the way and get the space where the bags will be manufactured. 

We manually manufactured the next set of bags to test the changes and finalize the procedures.  We made a few 'criteria' changes as well to make the bags more adaptable for general use as well.  As the original target volume of 31L made the bags unnecessary large and clumsy for most trips we trimmed the width down a bit and made the base a bit more 'rounded'.  during testing the last few trips we noticed that it actually works easier if the bag is actually smaller for (long)weekend trips. Each bag now holds 25L max. 

We will now supply easy strap on "Roll Bags" that can attach to the front, back and on top of the main bags if additional storage is required.  This works nice for tent, sleeping bag etc for the longer trips.  Each bag will be supplied with ONE lightweight inner for that quick 'overnight' goodies like shower, fresh clothes and slipslops.  We are looking at about 12L. 

The RF welder is fully commissioned.  We will start machining of the dies this week.  It still need some final design to ensure quick replacement and minimum adjustment between dies.  We also took delivery of the industrial sewing machine.  I do not need to strain the old lady's fancy Pfaff anymore.

The work area will get ceiling, floor and drywall this week.  Aim to get the first production bags on the bench this weekend.

Adie
Laat ons Stof maak.
 

Offline Weedkiller - Adie

Re: New Rockfox soft luggage in the works
« Reply #48 on: September 21, 2017, 09:22:06 pm »
Ok, daar het baie water in die see geloop, die koŽl is deur die kerk (nee, 'n hond het koŽls en 'n geweer het rondtes/patrone) en ek werk my vrek.

Al die ontwikkeling is verby en produksie het begin.

Ons het sterker maar meer soepel materiaal gekry.  Dit het ook 'n effe MAT voorkoms.  Die sakke rol nou baie makliker en beter toe.  Ek wil 'n skeur toets tussen die twee produkte en ook RipStop doen. Ons kon gladnie die nuwe produk in die een rigting skeur.

EUREKA!! The welder is up and running. We designed special tools (electrodes) to minimize adjustment between the different pads.  (the power is relative to the area being welded)  We should now be able to change electrodes without any pressure or power adjustments. Will do final 'separation tear' tests tomorrow.  The one pic below show the different separation depending on the settings.

The bags was test fitted to various bikes that Mike had to work on the last few weeks.  All fitted 100%.

Ohh, we abandoned any fancy attachment clips/buckles/locks etc in favor of a simple YKK plastic buckle (we tested the break strength to be just below 90kg in tension) with a built in double D link system.  Basically, if the buckle does break you remove the sliding part and thread the webbing through the D links.

We would have the first set of 5 sets available by Wed 27 Sept. (At last  :-[ )

INTRO price will still be as per original estimate of R 3 600.00 inc VAT.

Adie
Gotta go, still need to program a Raspberry Pi with Android Things to replace a PLC - my 'real' job.
Laat ons Stof maak.
 

Offline wobbler

Re: New Rockfox soft luggage in the works
« Reply #49 on: September 21, 2017, 10:37:19 pm »
Now THIS is how a product is developed.
Congrats, it looks like you are onto something here.
Anyone want a brand new unused set of SW Motec Dakars panniers?
 

Offline SlŠinte Mhaith

Re: New Rockfox soft luggage in the works
« Reply #50 on: September 21, 2017, 11:48:13 pm »
Ek hou van die eenvoud van die ontwerp sonder om veelvuldigheid te verloor.  :thumleft:

Hoe maak die sakke aan die raam vas? Ek sien daar is 'n bree strap.
Ek neem aan jy kan die hoogte verstel as mens die bokant gelyk met die seat wil he.

Dra die twee straps wat bo-oor die sak gaan enige gewig of is hulle net om die sak toe te hou?
« Last Edit: September 21, 2017, 11:50:02 pm by SlŠinte Mhaith »
 

Offline Tampan

Re: New Rockfox soft luggage in the works
« Reply #51 on: September 22, 2017, 05:59:21 am »
Adie, ek is steeds in vir Ďn stel, asb.
 

Offline Miracle_Salad

Re: New Rockfox soft luggage in the works
« Reply #52 on: September 22, 2017, 07:29:00 am »
Hey Adie is the price including brackets that the bags fit onto?

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Offline Weedkiller - Adie

Re: New Rockfox soft luggage in the works
« Reply #53 on: September 22, 2017, 08:30:52 am »
Hey Adie is the price including brackets that the bags fit onto?

Unfortunately not.   Currently the price of the Rockfox luggage racks is R 2 500.00 I think.  We are looking at something lighter (more cost effective) for the soft bags.  These will not be 'rear crashbars' like most current luggage racks but more like the SW Motec Dakar's. 

@ SlŠinte
Die sakke kom met 4 25mm straps aan die bagasie raam vas.  Die  straps oor die saal dra die gewig.  Dit maak dat die rakke baie ligter kan wees omdat dit basies net die sakke weg te hou van die plasiek en wiel.  Die posissie van die sakke is 'redelik' vas want die saal straps 'haak aan/le bo-op' die boonste pyp om die gewig te dra.

Adie
Laat ons Stof maak.
 
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Offline m0lt3n

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Re: New Rockfox soft luggage in the works
« Reply #54 on: September 22, 2017, 08:52:36 am »
Die lyk goed. Goeie werk Adie. Laat my baie dink aan my Enduristan sakke.

Waar is Xpat, ek sou nogal die man se opinie like op die thread...
Dooie visse gaan saam met die stroom...
 

Offline Bells

Re: New Rockfox soft luggage in the works
« Reply #55 on: September 22, 2017, 01:07:01 pm »
Adie was vriendelik genoeg om vir my sy prototype sakke te leen vir proef en kommentaar.

Ek het geen kommentaar, die sakke is perfek. Hulle maak makliker as enige sagte sak op die mark vas en haal bitter vinnig af ook. Ek het hulle op grond en teer gehad, alleen en met n pillion en hulle sit stewig en is regtig tough.

Julle kan maar koop boys!



(Die sakke was prototypes- hulle lyk anders)



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Offline Bells

Re: New Rockfox soft luggage in the works
« Reply #56 on: September 22, 2017, 01:07:32 pm »
Adie was vriendelik genoeg om vir my sy prototype sakke te leen vir proef en kommentaar.

Ek het geen kommentaar, die sakke is perfek. Hulle maak makliker as enige sagte sak op die mark vas en haal bitter vinnig af ook. Ek het hulle op grond en teer gehad, alleen en met n pillion en hulle sit stewig en is regtig tough.

Julle kan maar koop boys!



(Die sakke was prototypes- hulle lyk anders)



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Offline Abrie7

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Re: New Rockfox soft luggage in the works
« Reply #57 on: September 22, 2017, 01:35:18 pm »
Adie.  Ek soek asb ń stel vir panniers en ook iets wat ek agter bo op die rak kan vasmaak asb.

Dankie
Abrie
 

Offline Weedkiller - Adie

Re: New Rockfox soft luggage in the works
« Reply #58 on: September 22, 2017, 02:22:19 pm »
Adie.  Ek soek asb ń stel vir panniers en ook iets wat ek agter bo op die rak kan vasmaak asb.

Dankie
Abrie

Dankie vir bestelling.

Sodra produksie aan die gang is sal daar 'n hele reeks produkte van dieselfde materiaal ontwikkel word soos 'SideBag', 'TentBag', 'ToolBag', 'TopBag' ens.  Hulle sal aan die kant of bo-op die 'RockBag' kan vaskom.  Die 'TopBag' is basies 'n sagte 'topbox' met 'n zip. (weet nognie hoe ek hom waterdig gaan kry nie.  :-\ )

Adie

Laat ons Stof maak.
 

Offline DavidMorrisXp

Re: New Rockfox soft luggage in the works
« Reply #59 on: September 22, 2017, 02:48:47 pm »
Just had a look on your website as I can't always follow the posts in Afrikaans, I couldn't find the luggage and pricing
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