Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register

Author Topic: Small Bore Singles (450 and below) - collective review  (Read 3150 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline blauth

Small Bore Singles (450 and below) - collective review
« on: June 26, 2017, 05:12:18 pm »
To follow the theme of a collective review of a classification of motorcycle, this thread is dedicated to the small bore adventure orientated bikes. I think we should limit this thread to bikes that are road legal and used as adventure bikes else it's going to run away with every oke who's owned a dirt bike and everything from BigBoy to Vespa (seen some kick as adv Vespa's though    :imaposer:). There appears to be a trend moving in this direction. Lets say 450cc and less.

Unfortunately, I don't have any experience with this classification of bike so I can't contribute much and there really doesn't seem to have been much on the market in RSA in this segment. If you put in your experiences below, I'll update the main post so we have a summary in one place.

Feel free to post personalized pics of the bikes in the review.

Format of review:

Make: Honda XR250L Tornado
New Price: not available new. Can pick them up between 20 and 30k second hand.
General Review:   see here: https://adventure-motorcycling.com/2015/03/25/honda-crf250l-vs-xr250-tornado/
Pros: Reliable. Arguably better adv bike than the CRF250L. Long fuel range on standard tank. Six speed gearbox.
Cons:
Weight dry: about 133kg
Fuel capacity/Range: 11.5l  @ 28km/l = over 300km
Suspension (Travel Front, Rear, Adjustability): Front: 245mm upside downs, Rear: 242mm, rear pre-load adjustment only.



Make: Honda CRF250L
New Price: R70,000.00 (2017) but suggested reatil proce is 75k
General Review:
Pros: Reliable. Arguably better adv bike than the Rally. CBR300 engine is a direct swap. Six speed transmission.
Cons:
Weight dry: about 137kg
Fuel capacity/Range: 7.7l, 33.3km/l, 256km
Suspension (Travel Front, Rear, Adjustability): Front upside downs: 220mm, Rear: 238mm, rear pre-load adjustment only.



Make: Honda CRF250L Rally
Price: R80,000.00 (2017) but suggested reatil proce is 85k
General Review:  I have ridden one around the Kyalami track which is not it's intended purpose but I quite enjoyed it.
Pros: Reliable. Great looks. Fairings and windshield make it nicer for longer stretches. CBR300 engine is a direct swap. Comes with ABS which is apparently very good and can switch off easily - stays off when restarted. Six speed transmission. Switchable ABS in RSA model.
Cons:  Rear suspension is undersprung for bugger riders.
Weight dry: 147kg
Fuel capacity/Range: 10.1l, 33.3km/l, 336km
Suspension (Travel Front, Rear, Adjustability): Front upside downs: 250mm, Rear: 265mm, rear pre-load adjustment only.



Make: Kawasaki Versus 300
Price: R75,000.00 (2017)
General Review: 
Pros: Reliable with proven engine. Excellent power for it's engine capacity. Decent looks. Luggage rack as standard. Huge fuel range. Six speed transmission. It's a twin so it's smooth.
Cons:  Short suspension travel. A bit heavy but consider that it already has a rear rack, windshield and a twin engine so the weight is relative in my opinion. It's a twin so it lacks torque.
Weight dry: 158kg
Fuel capacity/Range: 17l, 450km+
Suspension (Travel Front, Rear, Adjustability): Front: 130mm, Rear: 147mm, rear pre-load adjustment only.



Make: BMW 310 GS
Price: Estimated R68999.00 (2017)
General Review:  Not available yet but should be available towards the end of the year.
Pros: Six speed transmission. Excellent fuel economy, switchable ABS. Luggage rack std.
Cons:  Mag wheels.
Weight dry: about 152kg
Fuel capacity/Range: 10.7 litres, 30km/l, estimated range   321km.
Suspension (Travel Front, Rear, Adjustability): Front: 177mm upside downs, Rear: 177mm, rear pre-load adjustment only.



Make: Yamaha TT-R250
Price: not available new.
General Review:  Refer to post # 10.  http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=211693.msg3861079#msg3861079
Pros: Reliable. Excellent suspension. Good ergonomics.  Kick and electric start.
Cons: 
Weight dry:  113kg
Fuel capacity/Range:   10.2 Litres. Range: unknown
Suspension (Travel Front, Rear, Adjustability): Front: 280mm, Rear: 280mm, rear pre-load adjustment only.


Make: Yamaha XT250
Price:
General Review: 
Pros:
Cons:  Dodgy looking.
Weight dry:
Fuel capacity/Range:

Make: Yamaha TW200
Price: New R49000.00
General Review: 
Pros: Very capable despite it's low power.
Cons:  fat tyres are not good on off camber sections. Slow.
Weight dry:
Fuel capacity/Range:



Make: Kawasaki KLX250
Price: I'm not sure if they were ever officially brought into SA.
General Review: 
Pros:
Cons:
Weight dry:
Fuel capacity/Range:



Make: Kawasaki DRZ400 E / S
Price: Not available new.
General Review:  I haven't owned mine for very long and it's given me a lot of shit so far so I'm not all that positive right now but if I eventually get all the kak sorted, I think it will be a great bike.
Pros: If service properly, it can be very reliable. Lots of aftermarket stuff, sadly overseas. Fair amount of power on the E model. Suspension is not too bad, being fully adjustable and compared to other bikes listed above but high speed [compression damping is shit, making small sharp irregularities very harsh.
Cons:  Parts appear to be crazy expensive from Suzuki. Close ratio five speed gearbox.
Weight dry: 119kg
Fuel capacity/Range: Std 10L, my range is only about 160km but I'm told I should be getting over 200km. Aftermarket tanks are available.
Suspension (Travel Front, Rear, Adjustability): Front 290mm (compression and rebound adjustment), Rear 295mm (High/Low speed compression and rebound, pre-load),



Make: BMW G450X
Price: Not available new. Can pick them up between R30k and R40k second hand.
General Review:  see here: http://www.visordown.com/features/road-tests/first-rides/2009-bmw-g450x-first-ride-review .  Motor was subsequently used in CCM GP450, with good results (in LOW POWER mode) CCM has recently discontinued the CCM GP 450.
Pros: Reliable. Road-legal enduro bike that can be used for light adventure, with the addition of an additional fuel tank, 8000km service interval, when run in LOW POWER mode. Good dealer support. Parts generally available through BMW, and shares many common parts with Husky 449 (discontinued), and CCM GP 450 (recently discontinued). longer sprocket and chain life due to constant chain tension.
Cons: Needs valve checking every 10 hours when run in HIGH-POWER mode...  Counter Shaft sprocket is located on swingarm pivot, so more work to swap out front sprockets. Ideally needs a breather vent mod: Allows hot blow by gasses to circumvent the torque limiter and pass out the top of the valve cover. This not only aids in the life of the torque limiter, but also allows for the original manufacture recommended oil quantities to be utilized.
Weight dry: 111kg
Fuel capacity/Range: 8 Litres,
Suspension (Travel Front, Rear, Adjustability): Marzocchi 45mm diameter upside downs, Rear: direct-mounted Ohlins shock, fully adjustable.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2017, 05:06:22 pm by blauth »
 

Offline Dux

Re: Small Bore Singles - collective review
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2017, 06:54:23 pm »
Kawasaki were looking at bringing in the KLX250 but I recall it would have been the same price as the KLR650 .
Motoworx
motoworx1@gmail.com
073 232 5389 / 065 967 4661
Unit 6 Viben square
8 Viben Road , Brackenfell
 

Offline blockheadxl650v

Re: Small Bore Singles - collective review
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2017, 07:07:01 pm »
Nice idea for a thread I wait in expectation.  :ricky:
 

Offline Oubones

Re: Small Bore Singles - collective review
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2017, 07:07:36 pm »
Tw200 is about R49 000 new
cons: slow and does not like cambers due to big tyres
pros: reliable, cheap, goes anywhere with ease
Sani even with ice is no problem, much faster up Sani than either my old xl500 or 650bmw
Dakar 650
SR 500
 

Offline Oubones

Re: Small Bore Singles - collective review
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2017, 07:10:05 pm »
versus seat makes a plan feel soft, I do not know if they done anything about it and the dealer where I sat on it has gone closed.
Dakar 650
SR 500
 

Offline blockheadxl650v

Re: Small Bore Singles - collective review
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2017, 07:14:55 pm »
can u add fuel tank capacity and expected range per tank as another field?
 

Offline Condebr

  • Newbie
  • Bike: Kawasaki KLR 650
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 7
Re: Small Bore Singles - collective review
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2017, 05:51:39 am »
To follow the theme of a collective review of a classification of motorcycle, this thread is dedicated to the small bore singles. I think we should limit this thread to bikes that are used as adventure bikes else it's going to run away with every oke who's owned a dirt bike without being road legal. There appears to be a trend moving in this direction. Lets say less than 400cc

Unfortunately, I don't have any experience with this classification of bike so I can't contribute much and there really doesn't seem to have been much on the market in RSA in this segment. If you put in your experiences below, I'll update the main post so we have a summary in one place.

Format of review:

Make: Honda CRF250L
New Price: R70,000.00 (2017)
General Review:
Pros: Reliable. Arguably better adv bike than the Rally. CBR300 engine is a direct swap.
Cons:
Weight dry: about 137kg
Fuel capacity/Range: 7.7l, 33.3km/l, 256km

Make: Honda CRF250L Rally
Price: R80,000.00 (2017)
General Review:  I have ridden one around the Kyalami track which is not it's intended purpose but I quite enjoyed it.
Pros: Reliable. Great looks. Fairings and windshield make it nicer for longer stretches. CBR300 engine is a direct swap.
Cons: 
Weight dry: 147kg
Fuel capacity/Range: 10.1l, 33.3km/l, 336km

Make: Kawasaki Versus 300
Price: R75,000.00 (2017)
General Review: 
Pros: Reliable with proven engine. Excellent power for it's engine capacity. Decent looks. Luggage rack as standard. Huge fuel range.
Cons:  Short suspension travel. A bit heavy.
Weight dry: 158kg
Fuel capacity/Range: 17l, 450km+

Make: BMW 310 Adventure
Price: R??? (2017)
General Review:  Not available yet but should be available towards the end of the year.
Pros: To be determined.
Cons:  Mag wheels.
Weight dry:
Fuel capacity/Range:


Make: Yamaha TTR250
Price: not available new.
General Review: 
Pros: Reliable, Great performance, Decent suspension.
Cons: 
Weight dry:
Fuel capacity/Range:

Make: Yamaha XT250
Price:
General Review: 
Pros:
Cons:  Dodgy looking.
Weight dry:
Fuel capacity/Range:

Make: Yamaha TW200
Price:
General Review: 
Pros:
Cons:  fat tyres are not good on off camber sections. Slow.
Weight dry:
Fuel capacity/Range:

Make: Kawasaki KLX250
Price: I'm not sure if they were ever officially brought into SA.
General Review: 
Pros:
Cons: 
Weight dry:
Fuel capacity/Range:

BMW comes in at R63 000


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

Offline skydiver

Re: Small Bore Singles - collective review
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2017, 09:20:57 am »
The Kawasaki Versys 300 is a parallel twin, not a single.
Sold: Yamaha PW80, Honda MT5, Honda XR200, Kawazaki KDX200, Yamaha TTR250, Yamaha XT660R, BMW F800, BMW F650GS, Yamaha XT660Z, CRF230F
Current: NC750X
 

Offline blauth

Re: Small Bore Singles - collective review
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2017, 01:29:04 pm »
The 63k for the BMW is for the current R isn't it. I'm referring to the not yet released GS model above.....since this is mostly an Adv site an all    :thumleft:

Offline SlŠinte Mhaith

Re: Small Bore Singles - collective review
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2017, 01:35:52 pm »
.
 

Offline CUZZY

Re: Small Bore Singles - collective review
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2017, 02:12:56 pm »
My Yamaha TTR 250
Bought it for 19K and spent about 12k on accessories. 2005 model with 8000km.
Pros: Fantastic suspension
         Light weight, 114 kgs empty weight
         Electric and kick start
         It was  -6 degrees in Underberg on Sunday morning and started instantly.
         6 gears
         Seat reasonably comfortable
         400 km range with the Acerbis 22.5 Litre tank on.
         Bullet proof Yamaha air cooled motor. Nothing to break when it falls over.
         I'm 6 foot 2 and sit very comfortably on the bike.

Cons: Not great on fuel economy, average 20kms per litre
          It's a 250! Max speed on GPS 130kph.
          Cruise comfortable 100kph.
          Does not like long tar road hills at altitude.  5th gear and doing 80kph

Overall.: Great little dual sport bike. It took me 10 minutes from Sani Top to the RSA border post on Saturday without even racing!

Imagine a light weight 500cc twin motor in this chassis ! The bomb dot com!!
 

Offline blauth

Re: Small Bore Singles - collective review
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2017, 02:13:22 pm »
My opinion is that the CRF250L and the Rally are over priced but if you look at what's available new, they are pretty much in a class of their own really. I'm particularly disappointed because I really like the little Rally, both in fact.

There is no competition in it's class (not considering the Versus and BMW because they are gentle adv bikes) other than the XT250 which is still available new but it's seriously dated in comparison.  Perhaps this is why the price tag is so high.

Offline CUZZY

Re: Small Bore Singles - collective review
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2017, 02:22:43 pm »
I agree. I personally would not spend that amount of money on a new 250 adventure bike. Having said that what does a new KTM 250F cost? Over 110k?
 

Offline blauth

Re: Small Bore Singles - collective review
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2017, 02:37:47 pm »
I agree. I personally would not spend that amount of money on a new 250 adventure bike. Having said that what does a new KTM 250F cost? Over 110k?

Problem is, the KTM250F is revised annually with the very latest in R&D. The suspension is state of the art. The chassis and engine are state of the art. Materials are the lightest and strongest.

For example, the power output of a 250MX bike is literally double that of the CRF250L and Rally. The 250MX bike weighs in at about 60kg less than the Rally.

I find it a hard comparison simply on engine capacity because the CRF's are rudimentary at best and stamped out in their 1000's. The one area where the CRF's (dual purpose) can justify some expense is the ABS brakes I think.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2017, 05:14:20 pm by blauth »
 

Offline CUZZY

Re: Small Bore Singles - collective review
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2017, 02:54:28 pm »
At the end of the day sales figures are going to determine the success or failure of the bike. Personally I really like the bike and hope they do well.
I believe that when and if the proposed KTM 790 Adventure and the Yamaha T7 arrive, there is going to be a big shift to the smaller lighter bikes.
 

Offline CUZZY

Re: Small Bore Singles - collective review
« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2017, 02:57:58 pm »
That last sentence a bit off topic, but my 10 cents worth anyway!  >:D
 

Offline blauth

Re: Small Bore Singles - collective review
« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2017, 05:19:06 pm »
At the end of the day sales figures are going to determine the success or failure of the bike. Personally I really like the bike and hope they do well.
I believe that when and if the proposed KTM 790 Adventure and the Yamaha T7 arrive, there is going to be a big shift to the smaller lighter bikes.

I suspect when the KTM 390 adventure arrives, there will be a shift....if they price it right. For too long, the CCM 450 has literally been the ONLY option in this segment with it's true hard core adventure/dirt capabilities.

The CRF250 Rally is a step in the right direction.

Question: If Honda made the CRF300 Rally with the CRF250X suspension and the CBR300 engine, would people pay 100k for it?

Of course, this completely screws with the 250 for licensing purposes objective but what the hell, offer both derivatives, a proper dirt worthy option versus a budget option.


« Last Edit: June 27, 2017, 05:20:35 pm by blauth »
 

Offline 1190

Smith & Wesson the original point and click interface
 

Offline sidetrack

  • Keep it real, keep it a single
  • Bachelor Dog
  • *****
  • Bike: Yamaha XT 660 Z
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 14,098
  • Thanked: 433 times
  • T7 dreaminí ....
Re: Small Bore Singles (450 and below) - collective review
« Reply #18 on: June 28, 2017, 10:54:06 am »
The wheels are turning....

http://www.advridermag.com.au/yamaha-t4-limited-edition-adventure-bike/
More of a Rally bike than a dual sport. It's quite easy to dual sport an enduro bike
Little by little, one travels far
J.R.R Tolkien
 

Offline Omninorm

Re: Small Bore Singles (450 and below) - collective review
« Reply #19 on: June 28, 2017, 02:48:15 pm »
@ Blauth, I do feel you mixed Wet Weight/Kerb Weights and Dry weights on your bike list above and it's the BMW 310 GS not Adventure. They will inevitably bring out the Adventure model if they sell well,  and I'm sure then it will have spoke wheels and more travel perhaps.
The 310's pro's are already fuel consumption, 11l tank "six-speed transmission that gives us 90 mph at 71 mpg", heated grips (Optional), Switchable ABS, Rear rack, Gear indicator, Tubeless tyres. and 3 seat options.

Negatives: Cast rims, very restrictive silencer (going by reports of the R version), non adjustable levers. lowish hanging sidestand.

Other than that I agree with your thoughts on the 390 Adventure etc.
It will take 1 manufacturer to go there and then we must really hope that the big talkers get behind that and buy it in droves for the other manufacturers to follow suite.
Then Suzuki can bring an updated DRZ Adventure 400cc or something :)

I think the Versys 300 (Although not a single - but you also list it) and BMW 310 GS is going to prove that this will generate sales.
Rumour has it we will see the 310 GS in September with a retail price of between R68 999 and R71 999.
I dont think it will need to be a single cylinder only.
Imho, I don't see why Yamaha can't pull a Kawasaki and bring out a 320cc Tenere P-twin - they have an amazing amazing little 323cc engine in their R3. Lots of bottom end and midrange and then it outruns a KTM 390 top end.

I feel the 300-450 is perfect size power and weight balance. And I'm not talking a race 300-450-  talking everyday with reliable engines and with 10 000km service intervals and that are relatively affordable.

I'm just not sure all the talk gets translated into sales though. I've yet to see a single CRF250L/Rally on the road.




« Last Edit: June 28, 2017, 03:20:25 pm by Omninorm »
Current: :
Previous:  KTM 690 Enduro R , BMW G310GS, BMW 1200GS LC, BMW F800GS, Suzuki Vstrom 650, Honda Transalp XLV700, BMW Xchallenge, BMW Xcountry, Yamaha WR250F, Honda NC750X, Honda XR150, Kawasaki KLX450R, Yamaha YZ250, Kawasaki KX450, Yamaha YZ250F,  KTM 250 XCW, Yamaha DT125, Yamaha DT50, Honda NSR250, Yamaha RZ 50.