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Author Topic: Ktm790adv r, bmw f900gs, Yamaha xt700z tenere, Honda crf1000 AT, Ktm1090adv r  (Read 2587 times)

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Offline Jwoest

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Hi Guys. First post so please be nice to me.
My BMW g650x has been written off. And I am in the market for a new bike.

I was looking at a xt660z but just can't come to a definite yes on the bike, older teq(MAINLY SUSPENSION) and heavy for its power.

I have been browsing the net, youtube'ing like crazy and reading reviews. But i just cant seem to get the right bike(I know the perfect bike dose not exist).

The reason for this post is establish what bike will suite me best.

I want a light, reliable machine that would do more dirt and some ruf stuff  and is capable of a nice long distance trip into Africa.

The only bikes on my list that are on the market now is the AT and 1090 and they are both outside my budget. But out of these two I prefer the ktm due to it's suspension and power. The Price is more or less the same. Bmw r1200gs has the same power with much less off road capability so please no 1200 suggestions for me and i wouldn't buy a 800gs now due to new model coming.

So on to the new bikes coming to the market this year. And i truthfully believe that all three will come in 2017 as 2018 models. BMW f900gs will most definitely be the most expensive, ktm 790 second and tenere700 in at the cheapest.

So i think i will be waiting for a few months, even if its 6-7 to get te benefit of the new models.

Specs, non yet but the suggested power on the Ktm790 is 100-115hp suggested from the 790duke.
The suspension upgrade in the 1090 make me think the 790adv r will be an off road weapon?

Tenere 700 will be 75hp from the mt07, the motor is tested and proven  yamaha is known for durability. The articals only state long travel suspension.

Bmw 900gs with very little info, the articles also suggests that they want to compete with the AT at round 100hp. The bmw will most definitely have the best dealer support but will probably be the heaviest of the lot.

Thus is my own assumptions
So even before the bike are lunched, i have a rating
Power
1 ktm 790 110hp
2 bmw 900 95hp
3 tenere 700 75hp

Weight
1 ktm 183kg think
2 tenere 190kg think (t7 concept is 180kg)
3 bmw 195kg think

Price
1 tenere (HOPE R140-150K)
2 ktm (HOPE R155-165K)
3 bmw ( THINK R165K-R180K FOR ADV) and that's ktm1090 and AT territory😧?

So my choice is clearly Ktm first and the the tenere, think i would rather buy the ktm1090 or AT above the gs900 depending on specs. And they are out of my price range.

So please give me you honest opinion ktm reliability  and service? Trax ktm is 3km from my house.

Yamaha dealer network is small and i am not sure if their days in adv market is over? Dealer is 16km from my house and i only know of the one in pretoria area.

Dont have much worries about bmw service or reliability, just price, weight and suspension?
 


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Offline Renrew

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Well you actually seem pretty informed, and from my "knowledge" of what's coming, you seem to be spot-on rumours wise.

Remember that IF they announce these bikes this year, we won't see them here in SA until next year probably.

IF you can wait, and know that those are the types of bikes that would work for your riding, then I would wait definitely. Or you could just go and get the 1290R.

Considering your options listed, I would go for KTM in a heartbeat and then in a not so near second, the yammie (espeically at 190kg). I wouldn't even consider the BMW, it would be very strange if they suddenly launch a modern bike with good suspension travel and an increased offroad focus.

Outside of the small cc twins list, I would go (assuming you want to buy new):

1. KTM 1290R
2. KTM 1090R
3. AT CRF1000L

KTM service is good, not as good as BMW but good enough to not have to spend your night worrying about it.

In fact, I'm waiting to see what KTM dies with the 790 thing before my next purchase - Else I'll just get a 1290R if the 790 doesn't speak to me.

PS - Never buy the first of something though, not if you want a keeper and don't fancy some risk. Wait till the second iteration or buy the first with the knowlegde that you might get the second iteration.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2017, 09:27:28 pm by Renrew »
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Offline zebra - Flying Brick

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I think Renrew has dates correct, bikes are Launched in October and November, (Interbike and EICMA), and the hit SA shores in April/May, etc, maybe earlier if you are lucky...


Some Dealers will want deposits on the 1st shipment, to secure a bike...


Then some people wait 12+ months to sort out inevitable teething problems; they happen to every bike, IMHO.


Nice summary you wrote; for me KTM is more race ready/pushing performance envelope, Yamaha and Honda more under-stressed motors....


Example?
2007 KTM 990 did 100 HP from 990cc's....
2017 CRF1000L does 100 HP from 1000cc's, ten years later..!
Good luck
Chris
« Last Edit: July 11, 2017, 07:52:57 am by zebra - Flying Brick »
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Offline Kaboef

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All of the statistics you quote are irrelevant.
You are going about this totally the wrong way. 

Dont listen to cold facts or to your head.
You must always buy a bike with your heart.
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Offline m0lt3n

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All of the statistics you quote are irrelevant.
You are going about this totally the wrong way. 

Dont listen to cold facts or to your head.
You must always buy a bike with your heart.

Plus there will always be a new model somewhere in the pipeline, always waiting for it will leave you forever without a bike.

If your budget is R160k, why don't you look at secondhand AT or 1190?
And why do you not look at 690 or 701?
and if all else fails and you still want a 790 next year, you will probably loose 10 or R25k on whatever you bought now, but you are not forced to buy the first of anything.
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Offline Piet

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My BMW g650x has been written off. And I am in the market for a new bike.
...
I want a light, reliable machine that would do more dirt and some ruf stuff  and is capable of a nice long distance trip into Africa.
If you are coming from a BMW G650X you need to ask yourself what your definition of the following are:
  • lightweight?
  • reliable?
  • an African Adventure?

Because if you are planning to do only the main roads of Namibia, then your answer will be vastly different from when you want to go up to foeter up into deep dark Africa without support.

All the bikes you have mentioned will be 200-220 kg. Reliability will mostly be determined by your level of maintenance, but none of those bikes will be easily fixable with wire, duct tape and pliers like a good old single. And things do tend to break on a rough trip.

You should also ask yourself how much power you really want. Is the goal to race through Africa at 130 km/h? Are you in the game for the exhilaration of speed or do you want to ploeter along and enjoy the scenery of the trip?

It sounds like you might need two bikes... :P :biggrin:

Offline 1190

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As mention before I will never buy a bike again in its first or second year of manufacture :thumleft: Newer models also mean that the previous shapes drop in value and more second hand bikes become available which is good for your budget :thumleft:
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Offline m0lt3n

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You should also ask yourself how much power you really want. Is the goal to race through Africa at 130 km/h? Are you in the game for the exhilaration of speed or do you want to ploeter along and enjoy the scenery of the trip?

It sounds like you might need two bikes... :P :biggrin:


Sorry, sometimes I have this urge to make the idiot comment and I apologise :)



But only a KLR owner will call 130 racing!
« Last Edit: July 11, 2017, 09:12:42 am by m0lt3n »
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Offline Piet

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You should also ask yourself how much power you really want. Is the goal to race through Africa at 130 km/h? Are you in the game for the exhilaration of speed or do you want to ploeter along and enjoy the scenery of the trip?

It sounds like you might need two bikes... :P :biggrin:


Sorry, sometimes I have this urge to make the idiot comment and I apologise :)



But only a KLR owner will call 130 racing!
:imaposer: It's funny 'cos it's true!

But voetsek wena! I'm talking average trip speed here. And yes, if you are on marble sized rocks or in deep sand, then 130 km/h is blerrie "racing". I don't know about you, but the N1 isn't my definition of an "African Adventure".  :P

Offline spankme

none of them are light,reliable machines :biggrin:
 

Offline m0lt3n

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Hehe Piet...Ek moes net. (maar jy praat waarheid)



Dink die probleemstelling is steeds te onvolledig vir n oplossing.
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Offline MaxThePanda

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If your bike is gone and you want another one scratch all of these off your list. Realistically close to a year, I bet, before you have any of them in your sticky paws and as many have pointed out, they will be the first batch of a brand new bike.

If you want new, then your options are 1090, 800GS, Africa Twin, V-Strom or Husky 701. Don't discount the 701 if you want something that's rough-capable - the rest are all pigs! After hustling a 800 through the West Coast sand and Richtersveld I wouldn't touch one with a barge pole, although I know lots of people love them and they are fine on dirt roads.

The 701 is cheaper than the rest, has much better suspension and a new ultra smooth, twin counter-balanced motor. It will be much closer to your old bike,  but a completely different kettle of fish in capability, refinement and performance. And it's available now!

Offline Jwoest

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Thanks guys. I really appreciate your feedback

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Offline Jwoest

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Well you actually seem pretty informed, and from my "knowledge" of what's coming, you seem to be spot-on rumours wise.

Remember that IF they announce these bikes this year, we won't see them here in SA until next year probably.

IF you can wait, and know that those are the types of bikes that would work for your riding, then I would wait definitely. Or you could just go and get the 1290R.

Considering your options listed, I would go for KTM in a heartbeat and then in a not so near second, the yammie (espeically at 190kg). I wouldn't even consider the BMW, it would be very strange if they suddenly launch a modern bike with good suspension travel and an increased offroad focus.

Outside of the small cc twins list, I would go (assuming you want to buy new):

1. KTM 1290R
2. KTM 1090R
3. AT CRF1000L

KTM service is good, not as good as BMW but good enough to not have to spend your night worrying about it.

In fact, I'm waiting to see what KTM dies with the 790 thing before my next purchase - Else I'll just get a 1290R if the 790 doesn't speak to me.

PS - Never buy the first of something though, not if you want a keeper and don't fancy some risk. Wait till the second iteration or buy the first with the knowlegde that you might get the second iteration.
I think i shall be waiting

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Offline Jwoest

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Well you actually seem pretty informed, and from my "knowledge" of what's coming, you seem to be spot-on rumours wise.

Remember that IF they announce these bikes this year, we won't see them here in SA until next year probably.

IF you can wait, and know that those are the types of bikes that would work for your riding, then I would wait definitely. Or you could just go and get the 1290R.

Considering your options listed, I would go for KTM in a heartbeat and then in a not so near second, the yammie (espeically at 190kg). I wouldn't even consider the BMW, it would be very strange if they suddenly launch a modern bike with good suspension travel and an increased offroad focus.

Outside of the small cc twins list, I would go (assuming you want to buy new):

1. KTM 1290R
2. KTM 1090R
3. AT CRF1000L

KTM service is good, not as good as BMW but good enough to not have to spend your night worrying about it.

In fact, I'm waiting to see what KTM dies with the 790 thing before my next purchase - Else I'll just get a 1290R if the 790 doesn't speak to me.

PS - Never buy the first of something though, not if you want a keeper and don't fancy some risk. Wait till the second iteration or buy the first with the knowlegde that you might get the second iteration.
1290 is definitely out for me. 1090 looks great! But will have to wait till i can get a cheaper second hand one.

Are there really more problems on the first 1190s or 990, 950? I know the 640 and 690 had lots.

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Offline Jwoest

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My BMW g650x has been written off. And I am in the market for a new bike.
...
I want a light, reliable machine that would do more dirt and some ruf stuff  and is capable of a nice long distance trip into Africa.
If you are coming from a BMW G650X you need to ask yourself what your definition of the following are:
  • lightweight?
  • reliable?
  • an African Adventure?

Because if you are planning to do only the main roads of Namibia, then your answer will be vastly different from when you want to go up to foeter up into deep dark Africa without support.

All the bikes you have mentioned will be 200-220 kg. Reliability will mostly be determined by your level of maintenance, but none of those bikes will be easily fixable with wire, duct tape and pliers like a good old single. And things do tend to break on a rough trip.

You should also ask yourself how much power you really want. Is the goal to race through Africa at 130 km/h? Are you in the game for the exhilaration of speed or do you want to ploeter along and enjoy the scenery of the trip?

It sounds like you might need two bikes...
Hi Piet

The 1090 is 207kg, AT 220kg. They will al be less.

701 is good, worried about reliability though. And i will have to spend R135k to buy with R40k on top to make it an adventure bike. Then i might as well buy a 1090 or AT new.

Prefer shorter trips with lots of technical stuff but sometimes that trip is in Lesotho and I don't want to trailer the bike down there.

I have a trip coming up Sep in Angola that i will definitely mis, would have loved to ride up there for the trip. Most of the guys going have 2 or more different bikes, i don't yet and not planning to in the next 3-5years. They will ride with 701s and 690s.

5% of the stuff that i cant do with a 1090 but with a 701 is not worth sacrificing the comforts on the tar and long Nam like roads.



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Offline Jwoest

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As mention before I will never buy a bike again in its first or second year of manufacture :thumleft: Newer models also mean that the previous shapes drop in value and more second hand bikes become available which is good for your budget :thumleft:
The problem i have, specifically with ktm second hand is that most guys ride them hard and i don't know which ones they were. And yes you can get a full service record but that doesn't meen the bike was looked after.

I don't buy new cars and bikes every 3 years or even 4. Just gives me the peace of mind to have the bike from day one?

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Offline Jwoest

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You should also ask yourself how much power you really want. Is the goal to race through Africa at 130 km/h? Are you in the game for the exhilaration of speed or do you want to ploeter along and enjoy the scenery of the trip?

It sounds like you might need two bikes...


Sorry, sometimes I have this urge to make the idiot comment and I apologise :)



But only a KLR owner will call 130 racing!
:imaposer: It's funny 'cos it's true!

But voetsek wena! I'm talking average trip speed here. And yes, if you are on marble sized rocks or in deep sand, then 130 km/h is blerrie "racing". I don't know about you, but the N1 isn't my definition of an "African Adventure". 
Also no N1 adventurer but the truth is that tar is involved in any trip. And so are dirt roads, i prefer being of track in the bush but 130 is slow and that doesn't flout by boat.

Getting no the Nam border is almost 1000km

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Offline Jwoest

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none of them are light,reliable machines
??? They don't exist yet but what are you about??

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Offline Renrew

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You need an SE in your life! Pity you cant find them in good nic anymore.

Technical-CHECK
Sand-CHECK
170kmh Cruising all day long-CHECK

To be honest though - a 701 really isn't that bad a option listening to your requirements. And you really don't need to drop an extra 40k. Just a small screen, luggage rack (not critical though) and the Husqvarna long range tanks.

a 2017 701 will meet most of your requirements - Maintenance intervals are very good, it's light, has 275mm of suspension travel and when you need to you can do good mileage on it.

The 1090R might be good, but like the 1190,990 and 950 SE they just don't like going throigh sand with their front-ends being so heavy.
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