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Which would you want right now or near future?

1. Soft Panniers (R7000)
6 (14%)
2. U-bag/Holster bag (High-end Giantloop / Mosko Moto Reckless) no frames needed (R5800)
16 (37.2%)
3. Duffle Pack/Flexible Top Bag (R3800)
4 (9.3%)
4. Small Enduro U-Bag (Fits smaller bikes like EXC's, WR's etc.) (R3000)
2 (4.7%)
1 & 2
3 (7%)
1 & 3
2 (4.7%)
Way too expensive! Would never consider paying that for THE ULTIMATE LUGGAGE
10 (23.3%)

Total Members Voted: 43

Author Topic: Soft Luggage - Which would you want?  (Read 1310 times)

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Offline wobbler

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Re: Soft Luggage - Which would you want?
« Reply #20 on: September 21, 2017, 11:06:21 pm »
Not trying to rain on your parade.
There is room for locally produced premium gear in the marketplace.
What I meant was that surely you can cost these things add a decent profit margin and then say look, I can make this for Rxxx as opposed to saying how much would you pay for this then working backwards.
 

Online Renrew

Re: Soft Luggage - Which would you want?
« Reply #21 on: September 21, 2017, 11:10:53 pm »
Just getting a feel for the local market i suspect.Some people are prepared to pay for good stuff.

Yup
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Re: Soft Luggage - Which would you want?
« Reply #22 on: September 21, 2017, 11:28:03 pm »
Not trying to rain on your parade.
There is room for locally produced premium gear in the marketplace.
What I meant was that surely you can cost these things add a decent profit margin and then say look, I can make this for Rxxx as opposed to saying how much would you pay for this then working backwards.

No parade to rain on.

So you're saying go and spec, design, source, prototype, refine, cost and plan - Then end up with something that's totally out of this world expensive?

All this is getting a feel for the market and keeping that in mind.

I get what you're saying, but I completely disagree. If I were designing basic PVC luggage, then yes, you don't really have to research pricing tiers... But the moment something is premium, unique and in the higher price range, you sometimes need to understand the apetite for it and all aspects related to it. This won't be for everyone, and that's the best part!

But thanks for the concern :thumleft:
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Offline wobbler

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Re: Soft Luggage - Which would you want?
« Reply #23 on: September 22, 2017, 09:09:21 am »
Fair comment.
I spoke to a friend in marketing/merchandising this morning over coffee and apparently it is a very common way of starting out when developing products.
I suppose I should stick to driving ships.

I suppose the trick in SA would be to get it into a BMW/KTM dealership. In order to get that right it would need to be pretty classy gear with a proven track record.
Also something I noted in the comments was that someone bought xyz brand because it was what the dealer stocked and they could finance it with the bike.

Personally I don't like wasting money. Buying expensive is often the best way to save money "goedkoop is duur Koop", which explains why my gear is all top name brands.

Soo, in order to be constructive in this context, I would choose something like the Mosko backcountry soft panniers.
Best of luck with your venture.
 

Online Renrew

Re: Soft Luggage - Which would you want?
« Reply #24 on: September 22, 2017, 09:19:09 am »
Fair comment.
I spoke to a friend in marketing/merchandising this morning over coffee and apparently it is a very common way of starting out when developing products.
I suppose I should stick to driving ships.

I suppose the trick in SA would be to get it into a BMW/KTM dealership. In order to get that right it would need to be pretty classy gear with a proven track record.
Also something I noted in the comments was that someone bought xyz brand because it was what the dealer stocked and they could finance it with the bike.

Personally I don't like wasting money. Buying expensive is often the best way to save money "goedkoop is duur Koop", which explains why my gear is all top name brands.

Soo, in order to be constructive in this context, I would choose something like the Mosko backcountry soft panniers.
Best of luck with your venture.

Awesome comment Wobbler! And you're spot-on wrt the KTM/BMW comment, especially the "Goedkoop is duur koop" part.

Thanks for the feedback :ricky:
« Last Edit: September 22, 2017, 09:20:57 am by Renrew »
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Offline cracklin

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Re: Soft Luggage - Which would you want?
« Reply #25 on: September 22, 2017, 09:24:10 am »
Our SW Motech Dakar Bags have served us well- 6 months through Africa and another 6 months through central Asia including the Himalayas where dropping the bike was the norm.

In India I was  forced off the road by a truck into steel rebar, which caught on the bag . It literally spun the bike around  .

Nett result: a tear in the bag which was easily stitched.

Bear in mind that any imported textile bag carries a 30% customs duty so at R3 750 The Dakar bags remain reasonable value for a quality bag.

There is no one panacea for any rider....  however I remain biased  ;)

http://pikipiki2.co.za/the-last-of-the-tibetan-highway/

https://bikegear.co.za/dakar-freedom-soft-side-panniers/
 

Online Renrew

Re: Soft Luggage - Which would you want?
« Reply #26 on: September 22, 2017, 11:10:13 am »
Our SW Motech Dakar Bags have served us well- 6 months through Africa and another 6 months through central Asia including the Himalayas where dropping the bike was the norm.

In India I was  forced off the road by a truck into steel rebar, which caught on the bag . It literally spun the bike around  .

Nett result: a tear in the bag which was easily stitched.

Bear in mind that any imported textile bag carries a 30% customs duty so at R3 750 The Dakar bags remain reasonable value for a quality bag.

There is no one panacea for any rider....  however I remain biased  ;)

http://pikipiki2.co.za/the-last-of-the-tibetan-highway/

https://bikegear.co.za/dakar-freedom-soft-side-panniers/

Yup, 30% duty ex vat - Shocking I know. But there is a way around it (totally above board), hence no duties apply.

So the irony is that the Dakar is actually overpriced, R3800 is quite a bit  when looking at the materials used, design and overal offering.

But yes, it does a job at a respectable price, but when you consider the product quality, accessory system, warranty, service and backup I set out earlier; the Dakar needs to be a lot cheaper.
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Offline spankme

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Re: Soft Luggage - Which would you want?
« Reply #27 on: September 22, 2017, 01:09:52 pm »
I want the reckless 80 :P
 

Online Renrew

Re: Soft Luggage - Which would you want?
« Reply #28 on: September 22, 2017, 01:12:18 pm »
I want the reckless 80 :P

PM sent. Did you vote?  >:D
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Re: Soft Luggage - Which would you want?
« Reply #29 on: September 26, 2017, 08:52:52 am »
BLIP
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Offline cracklin

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Re: Soft Luggage - Which would you want?
« Reply #30 on: September 26, 2017, 09:24:34 am »
Our SW Motech Dakar Bags have served us well- 6 months through Africa and another 6 months through central Asia including the Himalayas where dropping the bike was the norm.

In India I was  forced off the road by a truck into steel rebar, which caught on the bag . It literally spun the bike around  .

Nett result: a tear in the bag which was easily stitched.

Bear in mind that any imported textile bag carries a 30% customs duty so at R3 750 The Dakar bags remain reasonable value for a quality bag.

There is no one panacea for any rider....  however I remain biased  ;)

http://pikipiki2.co.za/the-last-of-the-tibetan-highway/

https://bikegear.co.za/dakar-freedom-soft-side-panniers/

Yup, 30% duty ex vat - Shocking I know. But there is a way around it (totally above board), hence no duties apply.

So the irony is that the Dakar is actually overpriced, R3800 is quite a bit  when looking at the materials used, design and overal offering.

But yes, it does a job at a respectable price, but when you consider the product quality, accessory system, warranty, service and backup I set out earlier; the Dakar needs to be a lot cheaper.

If there is a legal way of avoiding the 30% duty please share it on this forum as it would be beneficial to all, including Vendors. A 30% savings on duties would mean imported bags could potentially be considerably cheaper, including those in your poll.

At the moment the SARS customs tariff is 42.02 and it (and its sub headings) are pretty comprehensive in its definitions relative to bags - so any way of avoiding this would be welcomed :

42.02 :
Trunks, suit-cases, vanity-cases, executive-cases, brief-cases, school satchels, spectacle cases, binocular cases, camera cases, musical instrument cases, gun cases, holsters and similar containers; travelling-bags, insulated food or beverages bags, toilet bags, rucksacks, handbags, shopping bags, wallets, purses, map-cases, cigarette-cases, tobacco-pouches, tool bags, sports bags, bottle-cases, jewellery boxes, powder-boxes, cutlery cases and similar containers, of leather or of composition leather, of sheeting of plastics, of textile materials, of vulcanised fibre or of paperboard, or wholly or mainly covered with such materials or with paper:

I am a bit confused as to your reference to the "Dakars Bags material used"- The Dakars are  manufactured from DuPont 1680 denier ballistics nylon, the same material used in bullet proof vests. It was apparently chosen  for its exceptional high scuff cycle and high tear resistance .

Most bags are either manufactured from less expensive Oxford weave or Ripstop nylon that cannot compete on scuff cycles. Ditto for tear resistance.

As an example the Abrasion Failure rate (scuff cycle) for Oxford Weave is 460 scuff cycles. For Ballistics it is 3000 cycles.

Oxford weave has a tear resistance of 96 lbs.   Ballistics is 250 lbs

Ballastics nylon costs extra , for a reason.

For a  comparison of materials used in pannier construction including tear resistance & scuff cycles :

https://bikegear.co.za/dakar-freedom-soft-side-panniers/

The Dakar's also have a unique integrated ABS Honeycomb core which not only ensures that the bag retains it shape for easy packing but also protects contents in the event of a fall. Again this costs more but it should serve as an indication of attention to detail by the manufacturers.

Does this make these bags expensive relative to other offerings? Maybe not.

As mentioned I remain biased and don't expect all riders to agree. We all have our own preferences.

That is the spirit of this forum- to promote discussion so that members can draw their own conclusions.

To arrive at this point it should however be based on sound facts.


« Last Edit: September 26, 2017, 12:09:11 pm by cracklin »
 

Offline Gérrard

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Re: Soft Luggage - Which would you want?
« Reply #31 on: September 26, 2017, 10:40:45 am »
I now have a Giant Loop Great Basin, which I got at bargain price off the forum, otherwise would not have bought it. Great piece of kit as the vote shows. Before that and for many years I used a 37L Roll top bag. Work well, and I use it now in conjunction with the Giant loop.
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Re: Soft Luggage - Which would you want?
« Reply #32 on: September 26, 2017, 11:16:20 am »


Quote from: Renrew on September 22, 2017, 11:10:13 am


>Quote from: cracklin on September 22, 2017, 09:24:10 am
Our SW Motech Dakar Bags have served us well- 6 months through Africa and another 6 months through central Asia including the Himalayas where dropping the bike was the norm.

In India I was  forced off the road by a truck into steel rebar, which caught on the bag . It literally spun the bike around  .

Nett result: a tear in the bag which was easily stitched.

Bear in mind that any imported textile bag carries a 30% customs duty so at R3 750 The Dakar bags remain reasonable value for a quality bag.

There is no one panacea for any rider....  however I remain biased  ;)

>http://pikipiki2.co.za/the-last-of-the-tibetan-highway/

https://bikegear.co.za/dakar-freedom-soft-side-panniers/



"Yup, 30% duty ex vat - Shocking I know. But there is a way around it (totally above board), hence no duties apply.

So the irony is that the Dakar is actually overpriced, R3800 is quite a bit  when looking at the materials used, design and overal loffering.

But yes, it does a job at a respectable price, but when you consider the product quality, accessory system, warranty, service and backup I set out earlier; the Dakar needs to be a lot cheaper."

Hi Renrew - I too am keen to know of your legal way around duties, since we are not aware of any legal way around duties, which must be paid?
Since your thread is essentially of a commercial nature, for a product not yet made, admittedly, yet people may hold off purchasing product from other Vendors awaiting your soft luggage offering, I would respectfully request you to become a Vendor now (R1K option and R3K option), the Wild Dog forum needs the income, and it's also the 'rules' etc.
If you have already registered as a Vendor, and it's not showing in your avatar, then apologies.
Thanks for considering that.
Chris


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Online Renrew

Re: Soft Luggage - Which would you want?
« Reply #33 on: October 12, 2017, 07:19:03 pm »


Quote from: Renrew on September 22, 2017, 11:10:13 am


>Quote from: cracklin on September 22, 2017, 09:24:10 am
Our SW Motech Dakar Bags have served us well- 6 months through Africa and another 6 months through central Asia including the Himalayas where dropping the bike was the norm.

In India I was  forced off the road by a truck into steel rebar, which caught on the bag . It literally spun the bike around  .

Nett result: a tear in the bag which was easily stitched.

Bear in mind that any imported textile bag carries a 30% customs duty so at R3 750 The Dakar bags remain reasonable value for a quality bag.

There is no one panacea for any rider....  however I remain biased  ;)

>http://pikipiki2.co.za/the-last-of-the-tibetan-highway/

https://bikegear.co.za/dakar-freedom-soft-side-panniers/



"Yup, 30% duty ex vat - Shocking I know. But there is a way around it (totally above board), hence no duties apply.

So the irony is that the Dakar is actually overpriced, R3800 is quite a bit  when looking at the materials used, design and overal loffering.

But yes, it does a job at a respectable price, but when you consider the product quality, accessory system, warranty, service and backup I set out earlier; the Dakar needs to be a lot cheaper."

Hi Renrew - I too am keen to know of your legal way around duties, since we are not aware of any legal way around duties, which must be paid?
Since your thread is essentially of a commercial nature, for a product not yet made, admittedly, yet people may hold off purchasing product from other Vendors awaiting your soft luggage offering, I would respectfully request you to become a Vendor now (R1K option and R3K option), the Wild Dog forum needs the income, and it's also the 'rules' etc.
If you have already registered as a Vendor, and it's not showing in your avatar, then apologies.
Thanks for considering that.
Chris


Only saw this post now.

Please do tell me exactly which rules I am breaking that would necessitate becoming a vendor? I’ve perused these rules quite thoroughly and see no such contravention.

To summarise, I am not:

 - Selling a product
 - Selling a service
 - Nor am I listing any specifics pertaining to where and how any products can be bought with benefit to me

I clearly said “... out of interest” at the start of my thread. This thread is for the betterment of a situation with some research questions to shed light on the market. Is that against the rules? Mentioning that there is a way around the import duties, is that against the rules?

I am happy to become a vendor when it is suitable and when my actions are in contravention with forum rules as it relates to the Vendor rules, but to become a vendor because another vendor fears he might lose sales just by having a simple poll about bags and the market? I am happy to financially help the forum and will do so when the aforementioned contraventions are triggered, the money really is peanuts, but I don’t have to now as you should realise.

Rather focus on guys that flood “Trade/Buy and sell” as bike dealers (formal or informal) without contributing as a member at any stage or paying Vendor fees. That is in contravention of said rules. They might not pose a threat to you, which is probably why you didn’t mention one of them, and if it were about helping the forum you would have. So it’s about you clearly.

My reply might seem strong, but your post came across as very petty and could have been left unsaid. I know you’re a good guy though, perhaps you just had a bad day :thumleft:

Or I’m having a bad day as I chose to repond to your post :lol8:

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Offline armpump

Re: Soft Luggage - Which would you want?
« Reply #34 on: October 13, 2017, 06:37:56 am »
To be honest i also thought the reply was kinda wierd.

Really like this as a non pannier top box trip option




 

Online Renrew

Re: Soft Luggage - Which would you want?
« Reply #35 on: October 13, 2017, 07:59:51 am »
To be honest i also thought the reply was kinda wierd.

Really like this as a non pannier top box trip option




Who’s reply was weird?

Those are brilliant bags, but more specifically the system is neat, stable and expandable.
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Offline Amsterdam

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Re: Soft Luggage - Which would you want?
« Reply #36 on: October 13, 2017, 08:02:13 am »
I put a vote in for option 2.  But not the stock options that are out there.  I currently use a Giant Loop Great Basin.  Nice bag (as long as it doesn't rain) but you end up with your stuff quite high on the bike.  And when you are travelling alone and have to carry extra fuel it is not ideal.  For me the ideal bag does not require a frame and has the sides a bit longer so that you can stick 5 liter fuel jerrycans in the bottom part of the bag (and easily removable so that you do not have unload everything at the side of the road to refuel).  And I want to strap my tent to the side as well.  But it needs to fit snugly and wobble free like the Giant Loops.

The black bit in the photo needs to not taper too much at the bottom, be flat and end further down, more at the level of the passenger pegs to fit the fuel/water can/heavy crap one always ends up carrying such as tools/tubes etc.
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Offline armpump

Re: Soft Luggage - Which would you want?
« Reply #37 on: October 13, 2017, 08:15:00 am »
To be honest i also thought the reply was kinda wierd.

Really like this as a non pannier top box trip option




Who’s reply was weird?

Those are brilliant bags, but more specifically the system is neat, stable and expandable.

F/B was probably just having a bad day ;)

I will need option that will adjust wide enough to fit over pannier brackets
 

Offline armpump

Re: Soft Luggage - Which would you want?
« Reply #38 on: October 13, 2017, 08:22:21 am »
Ie this wont fit across and over from what i can see

 

Online Renrew

Re: Soft Luggage - Which would you want?
« Reply #39 on: October 13, 2017, 08:26:02 am »
Ie this wont fit across and over from what i can see



I totally get what you’re saying, and strangely many guys would want to fit these bags over pannier frames (protect the bike underneath) - Hence such a system needs to be adjustable for the former situation as well.

Speaking for myself, I love these type of luggage systems, but I don’t want it to chafe my bike!

Valid points ap!
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