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Offline Omninorm

Bar Riser
« on: October 23, 2017, 03:07:58 pm »
Would I be able to do a 40mm handlebar riser without having to do cable mods on my 690?
« Last Edit: October 23, 2017, 03:10:51 pm by Omninorm »
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Offline bud500

Re: Bar Riser
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2017, 03:12:29 pm »
I would think so yes, but don't know for a fact. I have done it on my 990 and 500 with no issues.
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Offline zebra - Flying Brick

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Re: Bar Riser
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2017, 03:34:39 pm »
...should not be a problem....


when installing them, check for cable impingement from full-lock LEFT to full-lock RIGHT...


then start bike in neutral, swing bars through arc, and check for tell-tale increase in revs without touching the throttle...
(and check clutch actuates fine, too).


Cheers
Chris



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Offline Omninorm

Re: Bar Riser
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2017, 03:38:59 pm »
...should not be a problem....


when installing them, check for cable impingement from full-lock LEFT to full-lock RIGHT...


then start bike in neutral, swing bars through arc, and check for tell-tale increase in revs without touching the throttle...
(and check clutch actuates fine, too).


Cheers
Chris

But by that time i've already bought them Chris :biggrin:
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Offline Xpat

Re: Bar Riser
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2017, 05:54:54 pm »
4 cm of raisers???  :o Are you 210cm?

Seriously - it took me long time and many raisers along the way, but now I'm converted to the preachings of Chris Birch and Jan Staal - these things ruin you riding position and control of the bike by making your weight way too far back (and the taller you are the worse that is). If the riding is easy one should be sitting, and if it gets tough or while pushing hard, one should stand in full attack position bent over with chest low over handlebars. None of that BMW poster long distance merkating.

This realization increased my confidence many folds and made me ride much faster and smoother than before.

My 2c - I know you will buy them anyway.

Offline Amsterdam

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Re: Bar Riser
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2017, 06:39:41 pm »
What I have found a lot nicer than raisers is to fit the low pegs that Flying Brick sells.  I also rotated the bars slightly forward to get a good position.  The other big advantage of the lower pegs is that it is easier to go from sitting to standing.  Some people claim that low pegs snag on stuff but I have not found that after having had them on both the 690 and 701.

I previously had one of those Scott damper kits on the 690 and that raised the bars by approx 25 mm without any cable issues.  Don't know about 40 mm.
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Offline Xpat

Re: Bar Riser
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2017, 06:41:52 pm »
What I have found a lot nicer than raisers is to fit the low pegs that Flying Brick sells.  I also rotated the bars slightly forward to get a good position.  The other big advantage of the lower pegs is that it is easier to go from sitting to standing.  Some people claim that low pegs snag on stuff but I have not found that after having had them on both the 690 and 701.

I previously had one of those Scott damper kits on the 690 and that raised the bars by approx 25 mm without any cable issues.  Don't know about 40 mm.

Yes, you reminded me to come clear after my last post - I also have Steering damper, so probably have the bars raised somewhat as well. Busted...

Offline aka.Goliath

Re: Bar Riser
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2017, 09:27:55 pm »
I'm in the same boat Xpat, so too speak  ;D I also feel that raisers don't anything to make ones riding better. I rode most of my riding without them and now that I have a little rise from the steering damper I don't quite feel as comfortable, although the damper does a lot when you need it. Lower pegs make a nice difference particularly when traveling long distance seated and yes they do get caught up a bit but make up for it in comfort. I'm 6'5" if you're wondering. If you going to get risers get the steering damper riser for when you do upgrade to a damper. Like this >> http://rostoffroad.co.za/product/steering-damper-bar-raiser-ktm-690-copy/
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Offline Omninorm

Re: Bar Riser
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2017, 10:38:51 pm »
I hear you guys. I'm only 6ft at that. So not freakishly tall.
I too have tried many times without the bar raiders or dropped pegs and yeah one can ride like that - attack position etc. But then your neck takes a lot of strain looking ahead unless you really bend your legs and crouch way low all the time. I've tried doing away with any kind of raise on my WR but eventually folded and got a 25mm riser. Man what a difference.

If you have a steering damper you are probably sitting at a minimum of 30mm rise right there and that would be perfect.
For me it's almost less of a hight thing but a bit of height and bars forward. I'd rather have a bit more comfort than having to ride seriously low attack position all the time. I mean it's not like I'm racing.
Also if you look at some of the pro guys saying don't get risers...they actually have custom / high bend bars on their bikes.

I feel more or less like this dude about it.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=2s&v=KvYdZ_z9-HM





« Last Edit: October 23, 2017, 10:46:39 pm by Omninorm »
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Offline Xpat

Re: Bar Riser
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2017, 07:26:18 am »
Well, of course do what works for you. I had those Rox risers on my TE630. That was the bike where I went bonkers with the risers (I think I had those Roxes over another riser) - and I'm only 179cm. That was the point where I realized they really affect handling and not in a good way (granted, I was way over top with them). Going through Kaokoland I was constantly thrown too far back. And no matter how much I thighten them, those Roxes then to turn backwards (as I was hanging way too far back - combination of riding long kms of deep sand and being pushed back by the risers). But then the Oz dude in the video rides much tougher stuff than me, so maybe it was just me being stupid.



THe crouching thing is just matter of habit, and great core and leg workout  :). And the lower you crouch, the better control of the bike you have in my experience - took me a while to build reflex to actually go low when shit hits the fan. When I'm looking for comfort, I'm sitting (as much as I can to conserve energy) - I think too many people who came usually from big advd bikes stand too much even if not necessary, as that is how adventure riding is portrayed and trained. It is fine for short period of time, but for longer trips it is just waste of energy. And you jump up only when there is real reason for it and straight into attaco position. It helps to stay concentrated as well and exercises body control.

But as I said, do what works best for you - just my POV

Offline jvb

Re: Bar Riser
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2017, 07:53:36 am »
Just like with golf clubs. Taller persons have longer arms.
So the need is more to push the bars forward to keep the center of mass correct.
Not lift the bars - unless the bars are the wrong bars for the bike or application.
 

Offline Greenshields

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Re: Bar Riser
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2017, 07:59:58 am »
The Renthall Fatbar RC High will give you extra height without moving weight backwards


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Offline bud500

Re: Bar Riser
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2017, 08:38:48 am »
I agree with most of the above.
But the difference, or excuse in my case, is that I am not close to as fit or as fast or as light weight as a pro, so very little of their setup applies to me. Although I do agree with the theory in an ideal world.

My riding style isn't correct, I get tired quickly and my suspension setup isn't perfect either. So a little bar raiser isn't going to cock it up for me.
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Offline cocky

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Re: Bar Riser
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2017, 08:58:22 am »
Just like with golf clubs. Taller persons have longer arms.
So the need is more to push the bars forward to keep the center of mass correct.
Not lift the bars - unless the bars are the wrong bars for the bike or application.
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Offline Xpat

Re: Bar Riser
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2017, 09:07:01 am »
I agree with most of the above.
But the difference, or excuse in my case, is that I am not close to as fit or as fast or as light weight as a pro, so very little of their setup applies to me. Although I do agree with the theory in an ideal world.

My riding style isn't correct, I get tired quickly and my suspension setup isn't perfect either. So a little bar raiser isn't going to cock it up for me.

As I said, do what works for you.  :thumleft:

But my riding efficiency improved manyfold once I moved from the perceived comfort of the bar risers (they absolutely are much more comfortable for easy peasy merkating, when I believe it is not even necessary and sitting would be much better) to the efficiency of the 'correct' set-up in the technical riding. As an example, few years ago I used to ride KTM300 with risers in DeWildt almost every weekend. I was younger and fitter, and as far as I can remember I was never able to ride it from shabeen back to Police station in one go. Yesterday I did it on KMT 500 from shabeen through Police station all the way to Midrand in one go (which included about 25 km of tar admitedly). And I feel much more in control on the bike - for example on those 15 km or so of whoops you do on that track - weirdly enough, the lower I have my chin to the bar, the better - smoother and faster - I'm able to ride them, as my hands work much more efficiently at damping them. It really was an eye opener for me.

It really is so much more efficient to get the technique right (and bar risers in my experience detract from that) - those Pros are not using it because it is fancy, but because it works.

If you are up for a little experiment, maybe take the risers off and go for a ride to DeWildt (I would recommend at least three rides - it will take some getting used to) and see what happens (you ride 500, right?) If it doesn't work, just put them back and you are done, but I suspect you might be pleasantly surprised. And don't be afraid to crouch ridiculously low - just try to keep your chin above the bars not too far back.

I'm an average bimbo at best - getting my 45 year old ass kicked by 55 year old weekend warriors regularly in DeWildt.

Again, just my 2c - not criticizing one way or another, but this simple thing improved my riding so much that I think it is good to talk about it here.

Offline Thumper Dumper

Re: Bar Riser
« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2017, 09:29:46 am »
4 cm of raisers???  :o Are you 210cm?

Seriously - it took me long time and many raisers along the way, but now I'm converted to the preachings of Chris Birch and Jan Staal - these things ruin you riding position and control of the bike by making your weight way too far back (and the taller you are the worse that is). If the riding is easy one should be sitting, and if it gets tough or while pushing hard, one should stand in full attack position bent over with chest low over handlebars. None of that BMW poster long distance merkating.

This realization increased my confidence many folds and made me ride much faster and smoother than before.

My 2c - I know you will buy them anyway.
I think your "merkating "quote is quite funny and very true. When riding with friends with BMW 1150's they always stand in the "merkat" stance and I try to do the same but find that I'm actually leaning too far forward.
I'm 'just under 6 foot and I have a stabilizer that raises the bars about 20mm and the pivot pegs that allow you to lower them by about 10mm.
I was thinking of getting risers but after reading this post I'm going to just assume the attack position when standing.
Thanx for a great discussion and happy trails which ever way you go.
Cheers
Thumper
 
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Offline bud500

Re: Bar Riser
« Reply #16 on: October 24, 2017, 09:53:52 am »
I agree with most of the above.
But the difference, or excuse in my case, is that I am not close to as fit or as fast or as light weight as a pro, so very little of their setup applies to me. Although I do agree with the theory in an ideal world.

My riding style isn't correct, I get tired quickly and my suspension setup isn't perfect either. So a little bar raiser isn't going to cock it up for me.

As I said, do what works for you.  :thumleft:

But my riding efficiency improved manyfold once I moved from the perceived comfort of the bar risers (they absolutely are much more comfortable for easy peasy merkating, when I believe it is not even necessary and sitting would be much better) to the efficiency of the 'correct' set-up in the technical riding. As an example, few years ago I used to ride KTM300 with risers in DeWildt almost every weekend. I was younger and fitter, and as far as I can remember I was never able to ride it from shabeen back to Police station in one go. Yesterday I did it on KMT 500 from shabeen through Police station all the way to Midrand in one go (which included about 25 km of tar admitedly). And I feel much more in control on the bike - for example on those 15 km or so of whoops you do on that track - weirdly enough, the lower I have my chin to the bar, the better - smoother and faster - I'm able to ride them, as my hands work much more efficiently at damping them. It really was an eye opener for me.

It really is so much more efficient to get the technique right (and bar risers in my experience detract from that) - those Pros are not using it because it is fancy, but because it works.

If you are up for a little experiment, maybe take the risers off and go for a ride to DeWildt (I would recommend at least three rides - it will take some getting used to) and see what happens (you ride 500, right?) If it doesn't work, just put them back and you are done, but I suspect you might be pleasantly surprised. And don't be afraid to crouch ridiculously low - just try to keep your chin above the bars not too far back.

I'm an average bimbo at best - getting my 45 year old ass kicked by 55 year old weekend warriors regularly in DeWildt.

Again, just my 2c - not criticizing one way or another, but this simple thing improved my riding so much that I think it is good to talk about it here.

Yes, 500. Cool I will give it a go. On those long whoop sections I have found keeping the front light/up was easier with the risers. But it probably detracts from the grip upfront in corners. I am also about to try the taller seat, mostly just to decrease the bend in my knees and make getting up quicker and easier.
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Offline Omninorm

Re: Bar Riser
« Reply #17 on: October 24, 2017, 10:12:09 am »
Interesting thoughts here.
I dont want to ride like a meerkat but I like being down and my legs slightly bent. I find I like my arms in a position with my elbows up. Without the risers I am way forward over the bars and arms straight. That can't be right. Yes when I drop my backside and hunch then my arms are square but Im basically folded in half with a arched back. Since if you straighten your back then I'm holding on to the bars.   
Maybe I should go for posture training  :lol8:
I found on my WR that the risers allowed me to make a bit more space in the cockpit and allow me to relax my back a bit more.
On the BMW I actually found the risers raised it too much and I would have actually liked the bars forward, but closer, vs higher and further.

I'll get some risers and do the same rides with and without and then see.
I always appreciate advice and do indeed test/try advice out for myself even if I sometimes "know" it wont work...I still do it with an open mind just to be sure for myself.

So I'll give it another shot regardless. Can always sell the risers.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2017, 10:18:43 am by Omninorm »
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Offline Xpat

Re: Bar Riser
« Reply #18 on: October 24, 2017, 10:51:32 am »
I cannot find good picture/video of riding position that works for me - it is quite crouched bend at the hips almost 90 degrees and back straight rather with chin/chest pushed over handlebars (which naturally pushes your arms wide. The best I could find is this video of Chris Birch - check the image on 0:25, though I go even lower over  handlebard with back almost horizontal.



That way I have very good feel about what is hapenning with front wheel which is critical IMO - the rear can more or less do what it wants.

Offline bud500

Re: Bar Riser
« Reply #19 on: October 24, 2017, 11:04:53 am »
That clip makes me feel so inadequite... :'(
May the bridges I burn light the way...