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Offline Rossdog

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Re: Economically adventurizing a EXC 500
« Reply #40 on: January 10, 2018, 06:05:19 pm »
Xpat, you have helped me make up my mind. I'm going to get a 500!  :thumleft:

I think for your kind of riding - at least the one you were doing up here, you will like it definitely better than 690. Just few months back I was singing praises on 690 to MTP who was deciding what to buy, but I have to say - if one is really deliberately looking for off the beaten track riding - the 500 is just so much better. To be fair, my 690 has rally fairing which in a hindsight was a dumb move and I'm getting it removed now. But even so the lightness and simplicity of 500, just inspires so much confidence, which is very welcome and needed by average bimbo like me.

But you have to be really looking for off the beaten track riding (not you Rossdog - I know you are - speaking generally here). If you want the Swiss knife that does everything well including tar passes and such (like for example Omninorm in his thread), 690 is better.

I think it will do the bread and milk runs just as well as a 690 - my bread and milk run includes a shocking 5km stretch of gravel. The 690 will probably do the back roads a little better, but with the 500, I can still do the odd extreme mountain (cattle pass type) outride and even the odd enduro. The 690 would be useless at this. Over the long term, I'll supplement the 500 with a 990 or 1090R. I had a 690, and really enjoyed it, but although it is probably the best jack of all trades, I found it was just too heavy for some of the trails I rode. If I had have filmed some of these rides, I could have sold the footage to the KTM marketing department for millions, because a 690 was certainly never designed to go where I took it!

I sold my belovered 300 out of frustration because of the lack of riding oppotunities down here in the SC.
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Offline m0lt3n

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Re: Economically adventurizing a EXC 500
« Reply #41 on: January 10, 2018, 08:43:05 pm »
on the 500, how many hours or km's will the engine do before needing to be redone and what will the costs involved be then?
If I buy, it will be a secondhand example in the R40 to 50k price bracket, what can one expect to get? Smiles or miles of issues?
(I think this is where the 300 2T shines, running costs)
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Offline Straatkat

Re: Economically adventurizing a EXC 500
« Reply #42 on: January 10, 2018, 09:13:39 pm »
Reading this thread with much enthusiasm, been thinking about getting a 500 for some time now. I love my 610 Husky, but the 500 is at least 25kg lighter, can be fitted with a 400km range tank, and as said previously, the best place for fuel is in the tank.
On top of that it has the same power as my Husky and is much simpler. So yes there are maintenance issues, but I service after each trip anyway.
Now to buy new or good secondhand? Probably need R20k for upgrades, of which some might already be done on a used bike and I am sure to have the motor serviced cannot be a fortune, yes it is nice to buy a shining new bike, but the way I ride it wont stay that way for long anyway...the case for good used is getting better!!
The secret is out methinks, so good seconhand might be hard to find....its only money anyway!
« Last Edit: January 10, 2018, 09:16:06 pm by Straatkat »
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Offline Sláinte Mhaith

Re: Economically adventurizing a EXC 500
« Reply #43 on: January 10, 2018, 09:33:56 pm »
.
 

Offline Runner

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Re: Economically adventurizing a EXC 500
« Reply #44 on: January 10, 2018, 09:58:19 pm »
Only problem at the moment is that the biggest tank available for the 2017/2018 models is a 15.5 litre unit, so I do not think 400 km is possible, maybe 250 to 300 km.
For the 2012 till 2016 there is a 20 litre unit available, which we have in stock now.
I have built/prepped quite a few for customers, I think it is a very good hardcore choice.
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Offline Xpat

Re: Economically adventurizing a EXC 500
« Reply #45 on: January 10, 2018, 10:14:54 pm »
on the 500, how many hours or km's will the engine do before needing to be redone and what will the costs involved be then?
If I buy, it will be a secondhand example in the R40 to 50k price bracket, what can one expect to get? Smiles or miles of issues?
(I think this is where the 300 2T shines, running costs)

To be honest I don't know. I have seen estimates between 10k - 20k km for top end. Mine is now on 5.5k km that I've put on it and the way it works now, I would expect at least 20k km on the current top end - but I ride like an old lady (which also means that I slip clutch a lot - at least in Lesotho). I don't know how much top end costs, but probably less than fixes of 1190 after single Lesotho trip  >:D - relax, just pulling your leg.

If I can stop procrastinating - which is big if, I will be heading for a trip to Mozambique on the weekend - going up the coast in sand from Marcuene all the way up to Vilanculos ant then back inland along Kruger. All together I would expect about 2.5 k km loop from Joburg. I'm going on 500 so will see in about 2 weeks how the bike looks/feels at abou 8k km. Then in Feb I want to go for another round in Lesotho, which will add probably less than 1000 km, but most of it slipping clutch in 1st and 2nd gear (which is what I did on the first Lesotho trip). So by the end of Feb we will see where we get. And then I am considering going Kaokoland (if Straatkat is ready to go) and on the way tackle those dunes in Bots north of you (molten) and then ideally on the way back I would like to explore Bushmanland straddling Nam and Botswana border. For that trip I will trailer the bike to the spots and then ride it in the area, but I will still put on it easily 2.5 - 3k km.

The moral of the story is that if you choose where you ride carefully, this bike will give you within 10k km (and I believe actually much more) before possible top end rebuild, density of riding experience that bigger bike has no chance to match in 100k km. And that is how I measure my return on a bike - not in km, but in number of trips/km it gave goosebumps.

With all that sales pitch - I cannot of course guarantee you that a second hand bike hasn't been abused. You will have to do your due diligence to decide for yourself. Generally, if you believe it wasn't abused or raced, I wouldn't be worried to buy bike with 100 hours or 5k km on the clock. It will give you at least 5k km before rebuild - possibly much more) and that is lots of km if you are going to use it for what it was designed for.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2018, 10:16:00 pm by Xpat »
 
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Offline sidetrack

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Re: Economically adventurizing a EXC 500
« Reply #46 on: January 10, 2018, 10:23:00 pm »
I would say 20000-25000km on top end. Much more riding than most would do on these bikes. On a lower compression and longer service interval DRZ single I got 50000km before it started using oil.
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Offline Xpat

Re: Economically adventurizing a EXC 500
« Reply #47 on: January 10, 2018, 10:33:10 pm »
Damaraland, I just remembered: you will most probably need new sprocket straight out of the box. My (new - 2016 model) for some reason came with 13/50 ratio, with which you basically can climb vertical walls, but it maxes out at about 90 kmh - not good for your intended use.

Different people gear them differently. For normal use - i.e. bush trips like DeWilds, Botswana cutlines, Kaokoland and such I use 14/50 (that one I'm comfortable with up to 120kmh - but I"m softie when it comes to mechanical sympathy - they can be geared to 160 kmh from what I've heard), for clutch slipping trips to Lesotho I use 14/52 (but I doubt you will need that in Nam, unless you have some rockfaces you want to climb).

Offline Xpat

Re: Economically adventurizing a EXC 500
« Reply #48 on: January 10, 2018, 11:29:13 pm »
Molten, just to drive home the point about 300 2t vs 500 4t  :pot:: to me the place where you live resembles much more Australian outback around Alice Springs than Lesotho. I.e. the place where famouns Finke desert rally is run. And what do you think they use to race there in the sand - 2t300 or 4t 450/500?

Have a look here on Toby Price's trial run at 185 kmh - no the video is not sped up. I cannot find what bike he is on, but I believe it to be 500 (maybe 450 though) but definitely 4t bike:

https://www.facebook.com/tprice87/videos/1068262086578182/

Ok, I'll leave you alone now  ;)

Edit: Disclaimer - if you are going to ride like that, you might need top end earlier than 10k km.  O0
« Last Edit: January 10, 2018, 11:51:15 pm by Xpat »
 

Offline Damaraland

Re: Economically adventurizing a EXC 500
« Reply #49 on: January 11, 2018, 08:05:04 am »
Damaraland, I just remembered: you will most probably need new sprocket straight out of the box. My (new - 2016 model) for some reason came with 13/50 ratio, with which you basically can climb vertical walls, but it maxes out at about 90 kmh - not good for your intended use.

Different people gear them differently. For normal use - i.e. bush trips like DeWilds, Botswana cutlines, Kaokoland and such I use 14/50 (that one I'm comfortable with up to 120kmh - but I"m softie when it comes to mechanical sympathy - they can be geared to 160 kmh from what I've heard), for clutch slipping trips to Lesotho I use 14/52 (but I doubt you will need that in Nam, unless you have some rockfaces you want to climb).

Thanks Xpat, will confirm with KTM what the sprocket size is on the '18 model.

Two things are happening as a result of this thread.
1.  There is nothing very economical about adventurizing a EXC 500
2.  I don't care - pretty convinced it's gonna be the best biking "investment" I've ever made.

 :thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft:
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Offline Omninorm

Re: Economically adventurizing a EXC 500
« Reply #50 on: January 11, 2018, 08:08:52 am »
Damaraland, I just remembered: you will most probably need new sprocket straight out of the box. My (new - 2016 model) for some reason came with 13/50 ratio, with which you basically can climb vertical walls, but it maxes out at about 90 kmh - not good for your intended use.

Different people gear them differently. For normal use - i.e. bush trips like DeWilds, Botswana cutlines, Kaokoland and such I use 14/50 (that one I'm comfortable with up to 120kmh - but I"m softie when it comes to mechanical sympathy - they can be geared to 160 kmh from what I've heard), for clutch slipping trips to Lesotho I use 14/52 (but I doubt you will need that in Nam, unless you have some rockfaces you want to climb).

Thanks Xpat, will confirm with KTM what the sprocket size is on the '18 model.

Two things are happening as a result of this thread.
1.  There is nothing very economical about adventurizing a EXC 500
2.  I don't care - pretty convinced it's gonna be the best biking "investment" I've ever made.

 :thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft:

Buy the right stuff the first time and save money  :thumleft:
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Offline AfricaOffroad

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Re: Economically adventurizing a EXC 500
« Reply #51 on: January 11, 2018, 09:01:39 am »
Damaraland, I just remembered: you will most probably need new sprocket straight out of the box. My (new - 2016 model) for some reason came with 13/50 ratio, with which you basically can climb vertical walls, but it maxes out at about 90 kmh - not good for your intended use.

Different people gear them differently. For normal use - i.e. bush trips like DeWilds, Botswana cutlines, Kaokoland and such I use 14/50 (that one I'm comfortable with up to 120kmh - but I"m softie when it comes to mechanical sympathy - they can be geared to 160 kmh from what I've heard), for clutch slipping trips to Lesotho I use 14/52 (but I doubt you will need that in Nam, unless you have some rockfaces you want to climb).

Your maxed out speed with 13/50 is clearly a bit of poetic exaggeration no doubt.
My old 2012 with that gearing would show 160 km/h on the inaccurate odometer.
Agree for the kind of riding spoken of here, the 14/50 would be a much better choice ( although it's only 7.7% lower than the aforementioned, so gaining  one about 10 km/ h top speed)
« Last Edit: January 11, 2018, 09:03:00 am by AfricaOffroad »
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Offline Xpat

Re: Economically adventurizing a EXC 500
« Reply #52 on: January 11, 2018, 09:12:50 am »
As I said - I'm softie in terms of mechanical sympathy, so maybe I just back off way too early. But 1690 on 13/50 just seems impossible  :o

I'm sure I could have made 100 kmh with 13/50 maybe little more, but are you serious about 160kmh? Is it possible that gearing changed between 2012 and 2016? Maybe I still have a lot of that 1150GSA in my blood - that thing also could rev 7-8k RPM in its normal range, and yet it felt criminal to go aver 5,5k rpm. My understanding from MTP was that for fast Amageza stages people used 14/48 or some such to achieve those speeds.

But again - I ride like and old lady. Maybe that is the reason why I do not worry about the rebuild any time soon...

Offline Buff

Re: Economically adventurizing a EXC 500
« Reply #53 on: January 11, 2018, 09:17:01 am »

I think it will do the bread and milk runs just as well as a 690 - my bread and milk run includes a shocking 5km stretch of gravel. The 690 will probably do the back roads a little better, but with the 500, I can still do the odd extreme mountain (cattle pass type) outride and even the odd enduro. The 690 would be useless at this. Over the long term, I'll supplement the 500 with a 990 or 1090R. I had a 690, and really enjoyed it, but although it is probably the best jack of all trades, I found it was just too heavy for some of the trails I rode. If I had have filmed some of these rides, I could have sold the footage to the KTM marketing department for millions, because a 690 was certainly never designed to go where I took it!

I sold my belovered 300 out of frustration because of the lack of riding oppotunities down here in the SC.

And the bonus is you can come do the Tankwa Rally with us in September, it's the PERFECT bike for that terrain  :ricky: :thumleft:
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Offline Buff

Re: Economically adventurizing a EXC 500
« Reply #54 on: January 11, 2018, 09:24:22 am »
As I said - I'm softie in terms of mechanical sympathy, so maybe I just back off way too early. But 1690 on 13/50 just seems impossible  :o

I'm sure I could have made 100 kmh with 13/50 maybe little more, but are you serious about 160kmh? Is it possible that gearing changed between 2012 and 2016? Maybe I still have a lot of that 1150GSA in my blood - that thing also could rev 7-8k RPM in its normal range, and yet it felt criminal to go aver 5,5k rpm. My understanding from MTP was that for fast Amageza stages people used 14/48 or some such to achieve those speeds.

But again - I ride like and old lady. Maybe that is the reason why I do not worry about the rebuild any time soon...

At the last Tankwa Rally one of the laaities clocked a GPS speed of 167km/h on his Yamaha 250FX  :o The new 4T's are very fast  :thumleft:
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Offline Xpat

Re: Economically adventurizing a EXC 500
« Reply #55 on: January 11, 2018, 09:32:14 am »
As I said - I'm softie in terms of mechanical sympathy, so maybe I just back off way too early. But 1690 on 13/50 just seems impossible  :o

I'm sure I could have made 100 kmh with 13/50 maybe little more, but are you serious about 160kmh? Is it possible that gearing changed between 2012 and 2016? Maybe I still have a lot of that 1150GSA in my blood - that thing also could rev 7-8k RPM in its normal range, and yet it felt criminal to go aver 5,5k rpm. My understanding from MTP was that for fast Amageza stages people used 14/48 or some such to achieve those speeds.

But again - I ride like and old lady. Maybe that is the reason why I do not worry about the rebuild any time soon...

At the last Tankwa Rally one of the laaities clocked a GPS speed of 167km/h on his Yamaha 250FX  :o The new 4T's are very fast  :thumleft:

I don't doubt the top speed on 500 - though that is impressive for 250. Just my standard gearing on 500 was way too short - even for Lesotho (14/52 I use is still longer than 13/50). The first gear was basically unusable, and the bike was really wound up at 90-100 kmh. I was actualy very surprised by that as I knew that people ride these at 160kmh in Amageza.

But yes, I don't find myself often bouncing off rev limiter on any bike (I don't think I ever did on my 690 which I'm much happier to rev due to short stroke engine) - and if so, than it is usualy multicylinder bike - so I didn't really try hard enough.

Offline m0lt3n

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Re: Economically adventurizing a EXC 500
« Reply #56 on: January 11, 2018, 09:51:48 am »
Molten, just to drive home the point about 300 2t vs 500 4t  :pot:: to me the place where you live resembles much more Australian outback around Alice Springs than Lesotho. I.e. the place where famouns Finke desert rally is run. And what do you think they use to race there in the sand - 2t300 or 4t 450/500?

Have a look here on Toby Price's trial run at 185 kmh - no the video is not sped up. I cannot find what bike he is on, but I believe it to be 500 (maybe 450 though) but definitely 4t bike:

https://www.facebook.com/tprice87/videos/1068262086578182/

Ok, I'll leave you alone now  ;)

Edit: Disclaimer - if you are going to ride like that, you might need top end earlier than 10k km.  O0

I will be looking at the 500 more seriously now.
its just slightly out of budget and then to expensive to take to the rocks we have. There is some calcrete stockpiles around town and then the plan is also to go to Prieska with a buddy. Some nice play area there.
But getting a 500 now will be good, then I can slowly start to make it ready for overlanding as well. A proper Namibia trip is still the ultimate aim.

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Offline Buff

Re: Economically adventurizing a EXC 500
« Reply #57 on: January 11, 2018, 10:00:04 am »
I'm exactly the same, I actually have way too much mechanical sympathy, probably because I don't like paying for new engines  ::) Even when racing my 690 at the Tankwa, I tended to short shift a lot, firstly to save the motor and 2ndly because it's got so much power it eventually wears me down. Of course it doesn't help if your mechanic (Dux) changes it to the "aggressive" mapping  :o

I've got 3 front sprockets for my 690, standard and 1 down and 1 up, depending on where I'm riding. I dropped it to a 13 when working on the Cape Epic and I enjoyed it so much I haven't taken it back to standard yet. It's great for traffic and playing in the local quarry.

I'm currently considering replacing my WR250 with a WR450 or 500 Husky as well, mainly to do the Tankwa Rally. The 690 was fine but hell, it was hard work in the tight river beds and mountain section The WR250 works there but I cannot ride my bike on the limiter for 15km at a time, there's no way my brain will allow that. I tried it for a short while when I marshaled a section last year and I felt like hugging my bike afterwards  :-[
The chances are good that I'll trade the 690 on a 700 Tenere or KTM790 when they eventually get launched so that I don't have two bikes so closely alike.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2018, 10:03:49 am by Buff »
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Offline Xpat

Re: Economically adventurizing a EXC 500
« Reply #58 on: January 11, 2018, 10:06:43 am »
If you are primarily aiming for technical rock riding - 300 for sure. But is there enough of that kind of riding available around there ? If so and that is what you want to focus on, go 300.

Prieska seems very far from where you are, so you will have to trailer  (I wouldn't want to go 250 km one way on 2t) - that gets old for a day ride or even outride quickly. I am happy to trailer, but only for multiday rides - to go that distance for a day ride seems a bit too much for me. If that is the distance you are willing to travel to ride, I would much rather aim up to those dunes in Botswana. You can do it all on 500 - with an early start and a bit of push, you might be able to make it across them and back home even in one day on 500 (I would be much more conservative on bigger bike) - especially with your iron butt credentials.

Look - I'm not trying to sell you 500 - I had 300 and it is great bike, for intended purpose. It just seems to me that for where you live 500 will give you much more versatility to explore around even on quick day trips, while 300 will limit you to a quarry or some such (which 500 will also do, just not as well). But you know the place much better than me (I just assume it is in Kalahari and hence - sand - and you don't see any 2t on Dakar), if there is enough technical riding around to justify 300, by all means go for it, it is fantastic bike.

Offline Rossdog

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Re: Economically adventurizing a EXC 500
« Reply #59 on: January 11, 2018, 02:35:36 pm »
I'm exactly the same, I actually have way too much mechanical sympathy, probably because I don't like paying for new engines  ::) Even when racing my 690 at the Tankwa, I tended to short shift a lot, firstly to save the motor and 2ndly because it's got so much power it eventually wears me down. Of course it doesn't help if your mechanic (Dux) changes it to the "aggressive" mapping  :o

I've got 3 front sprockets for my 690, standard and 1 down and 1 up, depending on where I'm riding. I dropped it to a 13 when working on the Cape Epic and I enjoyed it so much I haven't taken it back to standard yet. It's great for traffic and playing in the local quarry.

I'm currently considering replacing my WR250 with a WR450 or 500 Husky as well, mainly to do the Tankwa Rally. The 690 was fine but hell, it was hard work in the tight river beds and mountain section The WR250 works there but I cannot ride my bike on the limiter for 15km at a time, there's no way my brain will allow that. I tried it for a short while when I marshaled a section last year and I felt like hugging my bike afterwards  :-[
The chances are good that I'll trade the 690 on a 700 Tenere or KTM790 when they eventually get launched so that I don't have two bikes so closely alike.

Maybe I'll see you at the Tankwa on a 500  :biggrin:

Good plan to trade your WR250 in on a WR450 or a 500/501, seeing that you already have the 300 2T for the dity work.

I also agree with you that those FX 250 pull out like Catholics. I diced a mate of mine on tar road - I was on my Husaberg TE300 and he was on a FX with wet weather mapping (can't remember what sprocket combo he was on - probably 13/50), but he smoked me on top end. And Shaun is a big bloke, probably weighing a little more than my 105kg. I was hugely impressed!
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