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Offline Sycamore

quick tyre opinion asseblief, I know it's braai time
« on: January 12, 2018, 10:16:11 pm »
Forgive the Friday night tire question, its a bad time I know. Hoping to put some shoes on a bike tomorrow and options are limited. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Lightweight bike (600cc) mostly for gravel roads and rougher 2-track, firebreaks, plantation roads etc. A bit of paved road running around but mostly dirt.
I'd love to find a good tyre (esp. front) for that hard-packed gravel with the loose stuff on top.


REAR OPTIONS


TKC 80
Anakee Wild
Metzeler Karoo (thats the Karoo T or Karoo 2 - the blocky one not the smoother Karoo 3)

FRONT OPTIONS

Karoo 3 (never tried - looks too street)
Pirelli Scorpion Rally
Anakee Wild
Maxxis Maxxcross / M7304 (think that's a pure motocross tyre)

There are some Mitas options but didn't look at those - I currently have some on another bike and the compound is so hard that I sometimes struggle on that loose gravel stuff. Slides easy under braking / acceleration.
Any first-hand experience of the above? I don't need milage that gets me to the moon and back, just grip.
Thanks
« Last Edit: January 12, 2018, 11:21:38 pm by Sycamore »
 

Offline 2wdrift

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Re: quick tyre opinion asseblief, I know it's braai time
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2018, 11:45:16 pm »
Try the Dunlop D606 if you can find them. I run them on my XR650R and I would use them again.
 
« Last Edit: January 12, 2018, 11:46:43 pm by 2wdrift »
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Offline Sycamore

Re: quick tyre opinion asseblief, I know it's braai time
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2018, 12:21:02 am »
Was looking for them but couldn’t find stock.


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Offline chopperpilot

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Re: quick tyre opinion asseblief, I know it's braai time
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2018, 01:08:23 am »
Try the Dunlop D606 if you can find them. I run them on my XR650R and I would use them again.
Agree on the D606, with Pirelli MT 21 on the front.

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Offline 2wdrift

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Re: quick tyre opinion asseblief, I know it's braai time
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2018, 01:15:00 am »
Was looking for them but couldn’t find stock.


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I used the MT 21 on my 1190 up front and was very happy with it.

If you arent concerned with mileage or tar handling I would go with full knobbies, I used the mitas C02 on my XRR and was very happy with it. Just take it on the easy side on tar, in the rain knobbies are useless on tar. In the rain my bike would spin the rear in top gear. Be carefull.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2018, 01:22:14 am by 2wdrift »
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Offline chopperpilot

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Re: quick tyre opinion asseblief, I know it's braai time
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2018, 01:24:05 am »
I love the TKC 80 on the front, with the original Pirelli Scorpion, think MT 90, on the back of the 990R, but it is used slightly less technical than my 600 class bikes.

If you can get a TKC 80 for the rear, should be a 130, and a MT 21 ( Rally?) for the front, go for it!

The blocky Karoo should also be fine for the rear.

Two of my friends run Michelin T 63s, front and rear, on their 690 and 625 KTMs respectively. Very happy!

Type of riding you do, as well as thick Ponta do Oura sand.

Its also not that expensive.

I have used them in the past, both front and rear. The rear 130 appears to be slightly narrower than for instance the 130 D606. Try a 140 width T63.

The TKC is an awesome dual purpose tyre front on the 990 R, even above 120 km/h tar, but not aggressive enough for your type of riding.




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Re: quick tyre opinion asseblief, I know it's braai time
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2018, 07:31:24 am »
Dunlop D606 and Pirelli MT21 , had great results on both , Tracmac in Bellville have the MT21's and Just Bike Tyre in Brackenfell have the D606's  :thumleft:
The old Karoo and Karoo2 while fantastic tyres have however been discontinued , I wouldn't look at the Karoo3 or Anakee Wild though , I get the impression they are more suited to heavier bikes , the TKC I have never been overly impressed with and the Maxxis is purely an enduro/mx tyre .
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Offline Xpat

Re: quick tyre opinion asseblief, I know it's braai time
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2018, 09:44:41 am »
In my experience in tricky traction situation it is much better to have fronty tyre with offset knobs - i.e. not all knobs in straight rows alternating with straight gaps. I use on 690 and 500 (for DS use) Maxxist Cross IT upfront and am very happy - and no, that tyre is not pure enduro/motocross (though I suspect you said yours is Maxicross, so may be different), I have done thousands of km of long distance trips on those and they are fine for that (mostly off tar of course, I would probably be a bit carefull on wet tar). Don't know MT21 and D606 and looking at them they also have offset knobs so would happily give them try.

I used tyres with no offset- knobs for years - E09 (exactly the same pattern as T63), and had to kick myself once I switched over to Maxxis (I'm guessing it would be similart to any other tyre with offset knobs). Only in direct comparison did I realize what crap E09 upfront were (I still sometimes use them at the back - if I can get Dakar version), especially in tricky traction situations like deep sand and mud. TKC80 are basically road tyres - OK for big bikes and their typica use, but I wouldn't go for them on 600 cc bike if I would be planning to spent most of time off tar.

My 2c - tyres are quite individual choice

Offline Sycamore

Re: quick tyre opinion asseblief, I know it's braai time
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2018, 10:47:11 am »
Thanks for the tips, trying to find an MT21 or other maxxis cross to look at. In George, not a huge range here.

TKC80 rear is over R2000.
Karoo 2 or Karoo T (blocky one) rear is under R900.

From that price difference (more than double the money for similar tread pattern, same size tire) I'd expect wonders from the TKC, or horror from the Karoo.

 

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Re: quick tyre opinion asseblief, I know it's braai time
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2018, 10:51:49 am »


Quote from: Sycamore on Today at 12:21:02 am>Was looking for them but couldn’t find stock.



we have stock..., rear, as well as front!
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« Last Edit: January 13, 2018, 10:56:34 am by zebra - Flying Brick »
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Offline Sycamore

Re: quick tyre opinion asseblief, I know it's braai time
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2018, 10:52:36 am »
In my experience in tricky traction situation it is much better to have fronty tyre with offset knobs - i.e. not all knobs in straight rows alternating with straight gaps. I use on 690 and 500 (for DS use) Maxxist Cross IT upfront and am very happy - and no, that tyre is not pure enduro/motocross (though I suspect you said yours is Maxicross, so may be different), I have done thousands of km of long distance trips on those and they are fine for that (mostly off tar of course, I would probably be a bit carefull on wet tar). Don't know MT21 and D606 and looking at them they also have offset knobs so would happily give them try.

I used tyres with no offset- knobs for years - E09 (exactly the same pattern as T63), and had to kick myself once I switched over to Maxxis (I'm guessing it would be similart to any other tyre with offset knobs). Only in direct comparison did I realize what crap E09 upfront were (I still sometimes use them at the back - if I can get Dakar version), especially in tricky traction situations like deep sand and mud. TKC80 are basically road tyres - OK for big bikes and their typica use, but I wouldn't go for them on 600 cc bike if I would be planning to spent most of time off tar.

My 2c - tyres are quite individual choice



Xpat, this is the Maxxis that's been offered to me.
 Knobs are in straight rows so I guess it's the Maxicross u mentioned. On the tyre wall, is says not for highway use, or something similar. So I guess its pure MX.

 

Offline Sycamore

Re: quick tyre opinion asseblief, I know it's braai time
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2018, 10:56:52 am »


Quote from: Sycamore on Today at 12:21:02 am>Was looking for them but couldn’t find stock.



we have stock...


If you open a pop up store in George, then they’re in stock for me :)

Was hoping to get some rubber this morning for some weekend rides but I think I was being over optimistic, seems  I should slow down and shop around
 

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Re: quick tyre opinion asseblief, I know it's braai time
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2018, 11:08:29 am »
I know we are far away but:
Mt 21 in stock, front and rear
D 606 in stock, front and rear
T63 in stock, front and rear
Call Dave, 012 333 6443
Courier to George wil be R300 for a set.
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Offline Xpat

Re: quick tyre opinion asseblief, I know it's braai time
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2018, 11:11:56 am »
In my experience in tricky traction situation it is much better to have fronty tyre with offset knobs - i.e. not all knobs in straight rows alternating with straight gaps. I use on 690 and 500 (for DS use) Maxxist Cross IT upfront and am very happy - and no, that tyre is not pure enduro/motocross (though I suspect you said yours is Maxicross, so may be different), I have done thousands of km of long distance trips on those and they are fine for that (mostly off tar of course, I would probably be a bit carefull on wet tar). Don't know MT21 and D606 and looking at them they also have offset knobs so would happily give them try.

I used tyres with no offset- knobs for years - E09 (exactly the same pattern as T63), and had to kick myself once I switched over to Maxxis (I'm guessing it would be similart to any other tyre with offset knobs). Only in direct comparison did I realize what crap E09 upfront were (I still sometimes use them at the back - if I can get Dakar version), especially in tricky traction situations like deep sand and mud. TKC80 are basically road tyres - OK for big bikes and their typica use, but I wouldn't go for them on 600 cc bike if I would be planning to spent most of time off tar.

My 2c - tyres are quite individual choice



Xpat, this is the Maxxis that's been offered to me.
 Knobs are in straight rows so I guess it's the Maxicross u mentioned. On the tyre wall, is says not for highway use, or something similar. So I guess its pure MX.

I cannot see it very well. This is what I use and the knobs are not in a row - I mean they are in the middle and that is good for paddling in sand for example, but the side knobs are off the rows covering the gaps (unlike E09 or T63, where there are no knobs in the gaps whatsoever):



The highway use - I don't care about, if you do, then maybe these are not for you (but are you sure that D606 and Mt21 are for highway use? I think manufacturers are just covering their butts. The important thing for me is wear (these last long - for a proper knobbly of course - I would expect 6 - 8 k km - dirt use of course) and grip off tar. And they must be passable on tar, which these are more then enough. I've done 4-5 longer trips on them (aroun 3000km per trip), which inevitably included some tar, even though I normally avoid it as much as possible. And I had 0 issues.

Now, if you primarily want to ride tar - like commuting in rain and stuff and only do occassional dirt trip once in a while, this is not the tyre to go for (TKC80 probably is best for that as it is great on tar - even wet).

Offline Sycamore

Re: quick tyre opinion asseblief, I know it's braai time
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2018, 11:16:22 am »
Thanks xpat.
Definitely not for highway use but I do have to ride short distances through town and maybe a bit of highway to get to dirt roads, the guy at the bike shop warned me that cops will pull me over for that tyre. Seemed unlikely to me, but anyway.


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Offline Xpat

Re: quick tyre opinion asseblief, I know it's braai time
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2018, 11:23:54 am »
Thanks xpat.
Definitely not for highway use but I do have to ride short distances through town and maybe a bit of highway to get to dirt roads, the guy at the bike shop warned me that cops will pull me over for that tyre. Seemed unlikely to me, but anyway.


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Sure they will - in Switzerland. In good old RSA - don't think so...

Look it all depends on your use. To be honest for normal gravel any of those tyres, including the ones I didn't like will work fine - definitely better than any of those 50/50.

Where I came short with those E09 (and seen others come short on T63) was in sand - which I like to ride lots of, and mud. We've done trip with Straatkat year or two back to Botswana where we ended up riding mostly flooded Makgadikgadi pans. Me on 690 with Maxxis up front and E09 back made it through with flying colour - no fall whatsoever. Straatkat on TE610 with I believe T63 front and Kenda Block fell if my memory serves me at least 11 times on those 160 km.

The difference was just night and day (here is the RR with pictures, to get the idea: http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=192974.0) and the reason wasn't different skills - it can be attributed alomst 100% to the different front tyre.

Now if you are not going to find yourself in those kind of situations, or at least not very often (though get properly caught out by one downpour on some snotty dirt and you will be converted  ;)), as I said - most of those tyres you mentioned (I would steer clear of Karoo 3 - that is 50/50 right?) will work, so pick based on price.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2018, 11:24:16 am by Xpat »
 

Offline Sycamore

Re: quick tyre opinion asseblief, I know it's braai time
« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2018, 11:25:58 am »
Xpat, I think the maxxis tyre here is the same as yours. Maybe I’ll give it a shot.
If I get pulled over and fined I’ll send you the bill :)

I’m getting curious about the TKC80 pricing (rear).

Seems that both the D606 and the blocky Karoo 2 come in under R900, TKC is over R2000.
All 3 look in similar category. I know the TKC is good, but double the price is a big jump.


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Offline Xpat

Re: quick tyre opinion asseblief, I know it's braai time
« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2018, 11:30:18 am »
Xpat, I think the maxxis tyre here is the same as yours. Maybe I’ll give it a shot.
If I get pulled over and fined I’ll send you the bill :)

I’m getting curious about the TKC80 pricing (rear).

Seems that both the D606 and the blocky Karoo 2 come in under R900, TKC is over R2000.
All 3 look in similar category. I know the TKC is good, but double the price is a big jump.


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It's bee long since I used TKCs. And it was on 1150GSA - they did last, but were absolutely useless in mud.

As far as I understand it TKC is the best 'knobbly' on tar, which is important for many (most) people, as they spent a lot of time there. Karoo 2 (or rather at that time just Karoo) was at the time (13 years ago) it's main competitor, which was slightly less good on tar, but better offroad. Never had it and this is base on experience of other people riding mostly GSes, so take it for what it is worth. To me, both these tyres are aimed primarily on big bikes putting a lot of mileage on and a lot of it (majority) on tar., But that is me.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2018, 11:34:06 am by Xpat »
 

Offline Sycamore

Re: quick tyre opinion asseblief, I know it's braai time
« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2018, 11:35:58 am »
Thanks again. I’ll skip the TKC then. Not big bike, not a lot of tar.




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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: quick tyre opinion asseblief, I know it's braai time
« Reply #19 on: January 13, 2018, 12:23:57 pm »
I ride a Yamaha XT600 E, and they have 21" front and 17" rear wheels, I only use Mitas' E-07 on the rear, in 140/80-17 size, and the Pirelli MT21 rally-cross on the front, in 90/90-21 size.

On tar I have never doubted the grip, it is that good, and in some very rough technical I have also always been happy with the grip.

I run rear pressure at 1.6, and front at 1.8bar.

Rear gives me at least 15000kms, and the front around 8000.