MotoGP top speeds over the years.

[TheBear]

Modern Moto3 1 cyl 250 vs the best 1cyl 250 2stroke?

Moto 3 replaced the 125GP (2-Stroke) class.  I am not sure that a 250cc 2T single exists that it could be compared to.

Mugello again:

2011 Last year of 125 2T:

- Pole time:  Zarco, Derbi:  1'58.988
- Top speed:  Moncayo, Aprilia:  229.8

2012 First Year of Moto 3 (250 4T):

- Pole time:  Vinales, M, Honda: 1'57.980
- Top speed:  Khairuddin, KTM: 234.9
   
2017:  Moto 3 for comparison:

-  Pole time:  Mir, Honda: 1'57.462
-  Top speed:  McPhee, Honda:  239.2

[sidetrack]

A 300 enduro bike is much easier to ride than a 450 4stroke.

The 500 GP bikes was difficult to ride simply because they are inherently 4 x 125cc high performance engines. Peaky as hell.

But make a 1000cc V4 2stroke, and you'll have a much more rideable bike, despite the power being more, because your powerband gets spread much wider.

[/b][/size]

Imagine that !

Would be unrideable even with electronic aids, the system will kick in so often it will be a real pain to get any momentum going. Whilst Mr 2T is high sided into the gravel trap Mr 4T will cruise past and take the checkers 

[TheBear]

Still on Mugello.  250GP (2T) compared to Moto2:

2009 Last year of 250GP:

- Pole:  Bautista, Aprilia, 1'52.804
- Top speed:  Pasini, Aprilia, 288.1

2010 Moto 2 First year Moto 2:

- Pole:  Iannone, SpeedUp, 1'55.598
- Top Speed: Redding, Suter, 284.9

2017 Moto 2:

- Pole:  Morbidellie, Kalex, 1'51.679
- Top speed:  Kent, Kalex, 291.8

[TheBear]

A 300 enduro bike is much easier to ride than a 450 4stroke.

The 500 GP bikes was difficult to ride simply because they are inherently 4 x 125cc high performance engines. Peaky as hell.

But make a 1000cc V4 2stroke, and you'll have a much more rideable bike, despite the power being more, because your powerband gets spread much wider.

[/b][/size]

Imagine that !

Would be unrideable even with electronic aids, the system will kick in so often it will be a real pain to get any momentum going. Whilst Mr 2T is high sided into the gravel trap Mr 4T will cruise past and take the checkers 

Not sure about this.  The modern 2T will be fuel injected and have other fancy stuff to have a much flatter power band.  Coupled with rider aids, which is way more than just traction control, it might well compete, or even kick arse.

[Suzukli DL]

http://suter500.com/engineering/ will try dog up some more info and stats when I am desktop bound

[TheBear]

http://suter500.com/engineering/ will try dog up some more info and stats when I am desktop bound

Interesting bike (V4 576cc, 2-Smoke), but not blazing the world in terms of performance.  It is not bad, but not as good as one would expect.  The bike with Ian Lougher finished well in the 2016 IoM Superbike race.  10th, if memory serves.       Unfortunately they did not participate in 2017.

Search a video on YouTube.  The bloody thing sounds absolutely amazing.

[sidetrack]

What was that 3 cylinder 300 something cc Honda Taddy Ukada (I think) ran in the 500 GP class for a year or two ?

[Suzukli DL]

As far as I know Tadayuki Okada races a NSR500V which was a twin and then a NSR500 V4, the triple that came before these was a NS500.

[Suzukli DL]

Yes not blazing performance TheBear considering that in the late 90's early 200's the NSR500 was pushing out more than 200HP.
This Suter mentioned seems to have electronic aid but no traction control though. Not finding much on the electronics.

[Suzukli DL]

As far as I know Tadayuki Okada raced a NSR500V which was a twin and then a NSR500 V4, the triple that came before these was a NS500.

[sidetrack]

As far as I know Tadayuki Okada races a NSR500V which was a twin and then a NSR500 V4, the triple that came before these was a NS500.

May have been another Japanese rider but I remember the bike. Was Repsol Honda factory bike but was down on cc's and cylinders on the 500. Only used for a season or two as it did not make much of an impact.

[Suzukli DL]

This is the bike you thinking of. Not a triple https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_NSR500V

[sidetrack]

This is the bike you thinking of. Not a triple https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_NSR500V

Hah ok that is it 

[TheBear]

What was that 3 cylinder 300 something cc Honda Taddy Ukada (I think) ran in the 500 GP class for a year or two ?

There was a period when the class was defined as an "350 to 500cc" class.  Quite a few riders competed on 350's during the changeover phase, but I can't remember who and up to when.

One of the huge advantages of the 2T era is anyone could buy a 2T and go race.  The modern 4T era makes that impossible.

The arrival of the first Moto3 bike in SA, for this reason,killed the class effectively.  The idea was to race the 125GP bikes and Moto3 bikes together. Soon the 125GP's couldn't compete and they dropped out, leaving only 3 bikes in the class.  Not enough for an official race.  This was a hectic class as anyone could buy their son a 125GP bike, pretty much from any year of manufacture without huge bucks and be competitive.  Moto3 bike had to be imported, at that time at R500 000.

[RobD]

What was that 3 cylinder 300 something cc Honda Taddy Ukada (I think) ran in the 500 GP class for a year or two ?

There was a period when the class was defined as an "350 to 500cc" class.  Quite a few riders competed on 350's during the changeover phase, but I can't remember who and up to when.

One of the huge advantages of the 2T era is anyone could buy a 2T and go race.  The modern 4T era makes that impossible.

The arrival of the first Moto3 bike in SA, for this reason,killed the class effectively.  The idea was to race the 125GP bikes and Moto3 bikes together. Soon the 125GP's couldn't compete and they dropped out, leaving only 3 bikes in the class.  Not enough for an official race.  This was a hectic class as anyone could buy their son a 125GP bike, pretty much from any year of manufacture without huge bucks and be competitive.  Moto3 bike had to be imported, at that time at R500 000.

If I recall the 3 cylinder was also 500cc but had a lower weight limit than the 4 cylinder, also ran a single sided swingarm methinks

[TheBear]

If I recall the 3 cylinder was also 500cc but had a lower weight limit than the 4 cylinder, also ran a single sided swingarm methinks

At one stage Honda did have a 500cc 3cyl, NS500.  It was replaced by the V4 NSR500.early 80's.

[2StrokeDan]

Modern Moto3 1 cyl 250 vs the best 1cyl 250 2stroke?

Moto 3 replaced the 125GP (2-Stroke) class.  I am not sure that a 250cc 2T single exists that it could be compared to.

Mugello again:

2011 Last year of 125 2T:

- Pole time:  Zarco, Derbi:  1'58.988
- Top speed:  Moncayo, Aprilia:  229.8

2012 First Year of Moto 3 (250 4T):

- Pole time:  Vinales, M, Honda: 1'57.980
- Top speed:  Khairuddin, KTM: 234.9
   
2017:  Moto 3 for comparison:

-  Pole time:  Mir, Honda: 1'57.462
-  Top speed:  McPhee, Honda:  239.2

This demonstrates well what an amazing machine 2strokes are, when it comes to power, as in racing use. The 2011 125cc 2T single is as fast as the 2017 250cc 4T single.

Bottom line is that 2strokes has to be either restricted in some form, or bluntly outlawed for 4strokes to survive in racing.

[TheBear]

Modern Moto3 1 cyl 250 vs the best 1cyl 250 2stroke?

Moto 3 replaced the 125GP (2-Stroke) class.  I am not sure that a 250cc 2T single exists that it could be compared to.

Mugello again:

2011 Last year of 125 2T:

- Pole time:  Zarco, Derbi:  1'58.988
- Top speed:  Moncayo, Aprilia:  229.8

2012 First Year of Moto 3 (250 4T):

- Pole time:  Vinales, M, Honda: 1'57.980
- Top speed:  Khairuddin, KTM: 234.9
   
2017:  Moto 3 for comparison:

-  Pole time:  Mir, Honda: 1'57.462
-  Top speed:  McPhee, Honda:  239.2

This demonstrates well what an amazing machine 2strokes are, when it comes to power, as in racing use. The 2011 125cc 2T single is as fast as the 2017 250cc 4T single.

Bottom line is that 2strokes has to be either restricted in some form, or bluntly outlawed for 4strokes to survive in racing.

You seem to have it wrong Danie.  2-Strokes were never "bluntly outlawed" for 4-strokes to survive in racing.  The 2-Strokes were phased out to make space for the 4-Strokes which, so believed at the time, would run cleaner.  It was change that required making due to Euro regulations, etc. and as such a change to save MotoGP racing.

Just a note, the 2011 125 2T was never limited.  The 2017 250 $T is limited in terms of maximum revs, etc.  Keep that in mind when comparing.

[Sheepman]

Very interesting stats Bear  As said, some don't like to admit it, but smokers ripped and still do....a lot, sadly mostly in offroad applications 
There's nothing like the smell of 2 stroke early in the morning !

[ChrisL - DUSTRIDERS]

There's nothing like the smell of 2 stroke early in the morning !

Or a diesel idling that runs on 500pp not this stink 50 pp.