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Author Topic: New KTM 690's ????  (Read 5955 times)

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Offline Offshore

Re: New KTM 690's ????
« Reply #60 on: January 30, 2019, 06:31:38 pm »
OK let me try again:  I was Quoted R152K for a 2019 KTM 690 of which Stock will arrive in April or May by KTM Cape Town and Jo'burg.
 

Offline Andr 660

Re: New KTM 690's ????
« Reply #61 on: February 01, 2019, 10:25:56 am »
Indien die R se suspension laer gemaak word, vir ons ouens wat naby die grond leef, sal die bike nog dieselfde op gravel en teer hanteer/ry?
 

Offline Rough Rider

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Re: New KTM 690's ????
« Reply #62 on: February 01, 2019, 12:31:31 pm »

Racing you obviously hit things at way faster speed than you would probably do them while not racing and you would want every single ounce of performance for om the suspension. So I do think its different. Also buying a 690 for racing Enduros may not be the best idea. KTM 450 would probably be better.

In my experience riding the bike in pretty much all environments now, and while not close to Chris Birch and the like s speed - I have yet to go hell the suspension sure is crap  in fact I often go... oh my word I love this thing!
Ive had YZs XC-Ws KXs KLXs WRs and adventure bikes etc and I didnt find the 690s suspension to be anything less than good enough for what I do with it on an average ride. The YZs was the best imho but of course - its a MX Race bike.

Again, the way you guys are going on about it would make everyone reading it think that you get on the thing and you basically fall off before hitting 2nd gear because of the suspension.
I think most is making a way bigger deal out of it than your average rider.

I.e better suspension is better, but great suspension is still good enough.


Hmmm, where do I even start here...

First of all on how many of those bikes did you get your suspensions set-up properly? Maybe you did, but I suspect like most people you just did ride the bike as you bought it, at max just changed preload. I used to do the same until I happened upon 300 that was by pure accident set-up about right for me and it was huge eye opener. It is difficult to describe how much more freedom and enjoyment well set-up suspension will provide - I was at least 40% faster on the trails in DeWildt than I was on the 450 I had before (and never touched suspension on the dumb assumption that the manufacturers know best). And the riding while faster was also much more effortless and therefore I lasted much longer. Since then the first mod on my every bike is to get suspension sorted as best as possible, and I don't skimp on that. And it doesn't matter how 'great' suspension is supposedly out of box - if set-up wrong, it isn't going to work well and you might as well have some much cheaper junk there. Even if I would buy Coma's dakar bike with his 100k Eur forks, the first would be to get it set-up right.

So after that long preface - with all due respect, if you haven't ridden bike with good and properly set-up suspension, your opinion is quite frankly very limited. For example I haven't ridden YZ but the fact that you believe it had the best suspension for basically enduro riding seems very suspicious, as one of the things that does separate MX bikes from enduro is completely different suspension set-up (much more plush and forgiving for enduro, much harsher for MX).

And no, I don't agree on your racing angle at all. While of course racers need good suspension to have competitive advantage, I would argue that weekend warriors need great suspension as much if not more for their own safety. As BTB said, you are usually riding way faster on the way to Tankwa padstal than most racers in offroad race - especially on full blooded bike like 690. And you will inevitably came upon surprises at those speeds, like a rock you might have overlooked, or a new washout after storm, where only great suspension may save your butt (racer on the other hand may be due to their experience able to survive even on simpler suspension). So I would argue that if anything - good and well set-up suspension - is one of the most important safety features of motorcycle, especially for people with less experience.

And no, the standard suspension on 690 is not going to kill you if you ride like a granny. But if you are going to push - and lets face it, most people who buy  690 want to push the envelope a bit, good suspension becomes much more critical for your safety and enjoyment.

I don't bitch about KTM modern suspension in vaccum here - as in they provide great suspension but I'm never satisfied and always want more (although , of course I want the best  >:D). I think I'm pretty realistic in my expectations. I'm calling KTM out on a  dirty game they are playing with their suspension as over the years they were silently dumbing down their suspension on almost all bikes I guess to save costs (while increasing price of the bikes) and increase their profit margin. That clearly is not a good deal for customer - i.e. me (and you quite frankly). For example standard suspension on early 690 was way better quality than the crap forks they started to put in since MY2014. Why did the do it?

The same is true for the 950/990, where the suspension has been dumbed down in many steps (although there it was only travel if I'm not mistaken, internals probably remained the same). And the same is true for 500 suspension.

From all that I have heard, 640s had by far the best suspension - they just gave customers the best they could for the price, while now I suspect they lookonly after their profit margin (nothing wrong with that, but if I'm coming short because of that, I will make myself heard). So unless we make our voices heard (yes I know Pierer is not following WD, but quite frankly that and other bike forums are the only outlets we as customers have to voice our opinion), they will continue to play this game and we customers will be worse off.

Years ago I bought a new enduro bike, which was the same model the Western Cape Enduro championship was won on. I was familiar with this model as I had already owned one before. I asked the shop to set the bike up exactly like the championship winning bike, using the same suspension and engine mods and changes. The champion was a similar size and weight to me.

It was a big mistake, I simply could not ride the bike, all the power was in the top end and the suspension was so stiff it felt like it had none at all. I hated that bike with a passion and used to kick it every time I went into the garage. After the second or third broken bone I sold it and went back to a stock standard bike, which I loved.

Moral of the story is that the set-up for a racing winning champion does not work for a weekend warrior and can be plain dangerous. The manufacturers know this and save costs by supplying budget suspension which is good enough for 95% of their clients, especially on a bike not intended as a race bike. The Ready to Race slogan is a misnomer.

Another thing, the KYB SSS suspension on my WR is supposed to be the best in the business. Well I can tell you that it did not work for me no matter what did with clickers and sag. Eventually I took it to MP would customized it for me and now it really is extremely good.

Just my 2c
« Last Edit: February 01, 2019, 12:40:07 pm by Rough Rider »
Current rides: 2015 WR250F / 2016 690R / 2017 701SM
 

Offline Xpat

Re: New KTM 690's ????
« Reply #63 on: February 01, 2019, 12:45:31 pm »
Did I say one should have suspension set-up for racing? I don't think so.

Look, I have been the guy using whatever suspension the bike came with and just rode it. And being ignorant I put the typical plaster on any handling issues I might have had (that I suspect other people also use) - i.e. steering dampener, instead of getting the root cause - suspension set-up sorted.

Most people don't even set-up their static, let alone rider sag right (as that would very quickly show them they may need different springs). If it works for them - great.  But in my experience suspension set-up are money best spent on new bike, instead of loud pipes (that often rob the power), power commanders, steering dampeners people often waste their money on (I know, I have been there and done it).

It is clearly unpopular opinion here, but hey - that is my experience.

Offline Rough Rider

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Re: New KTM 690's ????
« Reply #64 on: February 01, 2019, 12:48:30 pm »
Did I say one should have suspension set-up for racing? I don't think so.

Look, I have been the guy using whatever suspension the bike came with and just rode it. And being ignorant I put the typical plaster on any handling issues I might have had (that I suspect other people also use) - i.e. steering dampener, instead of getting the root cause - suspension set-up sorted.

Most people don't even set-up their static, let alone rider sag right (as that would very quickly show them they may need different springs). If it works for them - great.  But in my experience suspension set-up are money best spent on new bike, instead of loud pipes (that often rob the power), power commanders, steering dampeners people often waste their money on (I know, I have been there and done it).

It is clearly unpopular opinion here, but hey - that is my experience.

No you did not say it should be set-up for racing, I was just passing on my experience and was trying to justify the cheaper suspension fitted on some of the new bikes.
Current rides: 2015 WR250F / 2016 690R / 2017 701SM
 

Offline Xpat

Re: New KTM 690's ????
« Reply #65 on: February 01, 2019, 12:51:03 pm »
Did I say one should have suspension set-up for racing? I don't think so.

Look, I have been the guy using whatever suspension the bike came with and just rode it. And being ignorant I put the typical plaster on any handling issues I might have had (that I suspect other people also use) - i.e. steering dampener, instead of getting the root cause - suspension set-up sorted.

Most people don't even set-up their static, let alone rider sag right (as that would very quickly show them they may need different springs). If it works for them - great.  But in my experience suspension set-up are money best spent on new bike, instead of loud pipes (that often rob the power), power commanders, steering dampeners people often waste their money on (I know, I have been there and done it).

It is clearly unpopular opinion here, but hey - that is my experience.

No you did not say it should be set-up for racing, I was just passing on my experience and was trying to justify the cheaper suspension fitted on some of the new bikes.

And then you said that one of the best suspension on the market KYB SSS worked like crap before set-up and after the set-up is extremely good. Kind of the point I was trying the make here  O0 ;)

But again, if people are happy with their stock suspension, then hey - no worries and enjoy  :thumleft:

Offline Rough Rider

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Re: New KTM 690's ????
« Reply #66 on: February 01, 2019, 01:05:03 pm »
Did I say one should have suspension set-up for racing? I don't think so.

Look, I have been the guy using whatever suspension the bike came with and just rode it. And being ignorant I put the typical plaster on any handling issues I might have had (that I suspect other people also use) - i.e. steering dampener, instead of getting the root cause - suspension set-up sorted.

Most people don't even set-up their static, let alone rider sag right (as that would very quickly show them they may need different springs). If it works for them - great.  But in my experience suspension set-up are money best spent on new bike, instead of loud pipes (that often rob the power), power commanders, steering dampeners people often waste their money on (I know, I have been there and done it).

It is clearly unpopular opinion here, but hey - that is my experience.

No you did not say it should be set-up for racing, I was just passing on my experience and was trying to justify the cheaper suspension fitted on some of the new bikes.

And then you said that one of the best suspension on the market KYB SSS worked like crap before set-up and after the set-up is extremely good. Kind of the point I was trying the make here  O0 ;)

But again, if people are happy with their stock suspension, then hey - no worries and enjoy  :thumleft:

Not quite so simple, the 2015 WR250 came with an inherent problem with the shock set-up. I can't remember the whole story but it had something to do with the shock shaft being longer than the YZ.
And with an inherent problem no amount of fiddling will get it to work properly, the root cause has to be dealt with. In the case of my bike MP took some length out of the shock by fitting a stopper on the shaft.   
Current rides: 2015 WR250F / 2016 690R / 2017 701SM
 

Offline Rough Rider

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Re: New KTM 690's ????
« Reply #67 on: February 01, 2019, 01:06:35 pm »
Did I say one should have suspension set-up for racing? I don't think so.

Look, I have been the guy using whatever suspension the bike came with and just rode it. And being ignorant I put the typical plaster on any handling issues I might have had (that I suspect other people also use) - i.e. steering dampener, instead of getting the root cause - suspension set-up sorted.

Most people don't even set-up their static, let alone rider sag right (as that would very quickly show them they may need different springs). If it works for them - great.  But in my experience suspension set-up are money best spent on new bike, instead of loud pipes (that often rob the power), power commanders, steering dampeners people often waste their money on (I know, I have been there and done it).

It is clearly unpopular opinion here, but hey - that is my experience.

No you did not say it should be set-up for racing, I was just passing on my experience and was trying to justify the cheaper suspension fitted on some of the new bikes.

And then you said that one of the best suspension on the market KYB SSS worked like crap before set-up and after the set-up is extremely good. Kind of the point I was trying the make here  O0 ;)

But again, if people are happy with their stock suspension, then hey - no worries and enjoy  :thumleft:

Not quite so simple, the 2015 WR250 came with an inherent problem with the shock set-up. I can't remember the whole story but it had something to do with the shock shaft being longer than the YZ.
And with an inherent problem no amount of fiddling will get it to work properly, the root cause has to be dealt with. In the case of my bike MP took some length out of the shock by fitting a stopper on the shaft.

The strange thing is that it affected the forks and not the shock.
Current rides: 2015 WR250F / 2016 690R / 2017 701SM
 

Offline Bill the Bong

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Re: New KTM 690's ????
« Reply #68 on: February 01, 2019, 08:14:25 pm »
Did I say one should have suspension set-up for racing? I don't think so.

Look, I have been the guy using whatever suspension the bike came with and just rode it. And being ignorant I put the typical plaster on any handling issues I might have had (that I suspect other people also use) - i.e. steering dampener, instead of getting the root cause - suspension set-up sorted.

Most people don't even set-up their static, let alone rider sag right (as that would very quickly show them they may need different springs). If it works for them - great.  But in my experience suspension set-up are money best spent on new bike, instead of loud pipes (that often rob the power), power commanders, steering dampeners people often waste their money on (I know, I have been there and done it).

It is clearly unpopular opinion here, but hey - that is my experience.

No you did not say it should be set-up for racing, I was just passing on my experience and was trying to justify the cheaper suspension fitted on some of the new bikes.

And then you said that one of the best suspension on the market KYB SSS worked like crap before set-up and after the set-up is extremely good. Kind of the point I was trying the make here  O0 ;)

But again, if people are happy with their stock suspension, then hey - no worries and enjoy  :thumleft:

Not quite so simple, the 2015 WR250 came with an inherent problem with the shock set-up. I can't remember the whole story but it had something to do with the shock shaft being longer than the YZ.
And with an inherent problem no amount of fiddling will get it to work properly, the root cause has to be dealt with. In the case of my bike MP took some length out of the shock by fitting a stopper on the shaft.

The strange thing is that it affected the forks and not the shock.

Well it would, as it was putting too much weight on the fork.  Other than shortening the shock stroke, you could have ran a longer wishbone, stiffer fork springs (to a certain point, possibly not enough) or dropped the forks through the triples.  Sometimes the roots cause is not the only option. 
 

Offline Dwerg

Re: New KTM 690's ????
« Reply #69 on: February 02, 2019, 10:07:23 am »
Went to go have a look at it this morning. I want it bad but Id have to addd ar least 80k to trade on mine
KTM 690R, 790ADV
 

Online Roadhawg

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Re: New KTM 690's ????
« Reply #70 on: February 02, 2019, 10:22:06 am »
Went to go have a look at it this morning. I want it bad but Id have to addd ar least 80k to trade on mine

YOLO!! :biggrin:
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Re: New KTM 690's ????
« Reply #71 on: February 02, 2019, 06:19:20 pm »
Went to go have a look at it this morning. I want it bad but Id have to addd ar least 80k to trade on mine

I know the feeling well - when I bought my 701 (with less than 3000km) the difference with new was R50K - I could not substantiate it.
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Offline Dwerg

Re: New KTM 690's ????
« Reply #72 on: February 02, 2019, 06:37:17 pm »
Went to go have a look at it this morning. I want it bad but Id have to addd ar least 80k to trade on mine

YOLO!! :biggrin:

One life. Livid
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Offline Dwerg

Re: New KTM 690's ????
« Reply #73 on: February 02, 2019, 06:39:17 pm »
Went to go have a look at it this morning. I want it bad but Id have to addd ar least 80k to trade on mine

I know the feeling well - when I bought my 701 (with less than 3000km) the difference with new was R50K - I could not substantiate it.

Not enough to justify it. Ill rather wait for the 790
KTM 690R, 790ADV
 

Offline Andre v S

Re: New KTM 690's ????
« Reply #74 on: February 02, 2019, 07:19:44 pm »
It's finally here! But I can't ride it until the homologation is completed. As soon as I have the chance I'll try to write an unbiased review (I'll try very hard....). In the meantime I'm frantically pacing up and down the passage way.


 
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Online Tom van Brits

Re: New KTM 690's ????
« Reply #75 on: February 02, 2019, 07:24:02 pm »
Wow, beautiful machine
 

Offline WildWood

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Re: New KTM 690's ????
« Reply #76 on: February 03, 2019, 07:23:41 am »
Lucky bastard
 

Offline Omninorm

Re: New KTM 690's ????
« Reply #77 on: February 04, 2019, 02:49:00 pm »
Need to go stop there today!
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Re: New KTM 690's ????
« Reply #78 on: February 04, 2019, 03:37:00 pm »
Looks better in white  :peepwall:
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Offline GAW

Re: New KTM 690's ????
« Reply #79 on: February 04, 2019, 03:59:34 pm »
Yeah right

It's finally here! But I can't ride it until the homologation is completed. As soon as I have the chance I'll try to write an unbiased review (I'll try very hard....). In the meantime I'm frantically pacing up and down the passage way.