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Offline Hardy de Kock

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Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
« Reply #100 on: March 31, 2018, 04:12:35 pm »
Wth these 3 guys i need for nothing-
Pieter Lourens aka Twister
Pieter Laubscher aka Losper
Stoffel Lombard aka Hinksding

these guys on a trip will do nearly anything....
ok ok there is only ONE thing they will not do. But hell that thing can be organised.
So- choose your mates and you cannot go wrong :thumleft: :thumleft:

Hi ETS

I have not had the privilege of meeting Losper yet, but I have spent time with the other two and I fully agree with you.  :thumleft:
 
 

Offline m0lt3n

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Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
« Reply #101 on: April 01, 2018, 09:30:10 am »
Hardy I think there is something else to take into consideration here.

Please say how you would like the quest to be different from the GS trophy?

Reason for asking, this list is taking the direction of being willing and andventurous. Not much focus on skill. That makes for boring tv. The biggest let down of the gs trophy is all this focus they also put on doing team activities, problem solving or guessing the amount of bamboo's in a bush.
Is AT selling not the primary purpose of the quest? I believe the bikes and riders should be tested to the limit. To the extend that these people come afterwards and sell their invincible 990's (I ride an 1190 and get reminded of how awesome the 990 is frequently) and that you know where these bikes were and hear there was no mechanical failures. Thats how you get someone like me punting the AT. Thats how hou get viewers, shares and sales
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Offline 2StrokeDan

Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
« Reply #102 on: April 01, 2018, 09:34:22 am »
Hardy I think there is something else to take into consideration here.

Please say how you would like the quest to be different from the GS trophy?

Reason for asking, this list is taking the direction of being willing and andventurous. Not much focus on skill. That makes for boring tv. The biggest let down of the gs trophy is all this focus they also put on doing team activities, problem solving or guessing the amount of bamboo's in a bush.
Is AT selling not the primary purpose of the quest? I believe the bikes and riders should be tested to the limit. To the extend that these people come afterwards and sell their invincible 990's (I ride an 1190 and get reminded of how awesome the 990 is frequently) and that you know where these bikes were and hear there was no mechanical failures. Thats how you get someone like me punting the AT. Thats how hou get viewers, shares and sales

I totally agree, make the challenge/quest focus on riderskills and bike ability.

If you want team activities, enter a triathlon.
 

Offline Kobus Myburgh

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Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
« Reply #103 on: April 01, 2018, 10:37:02 am »
Totally disagree with the last two posts.  There is already a GS Challenge, there is enduroís and there are rallyís.  If you want to test those specific skills, the platform is already created.

The Quest is something totally different, albeit a test of rider skill, bike ability and durability.  Although in competition format, it is so much more than that:  Quest - True Adventure is the full event name.  Many guys can ride a bike extremely well, but put all of the comments and suggestions together from this thread and you find an animal totally different from a skilled rider only.
"If you have men who will only come if they know there is a good road, I don't want them.  I want men who will come if there is no road at all."

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Offline Kamanya

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Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
« Reply #104 on: April 01, 2018, 11:30:28 am »
Hardy I think there is something else to take into consideration here.

Please say how you would like the quest to be different from the GS trophy?

Reason for asking, this list is taking the direction of being willing and andventurous. Not much focus on skill. That makes for boring tv. The biggest let down of the gs trophy is all this focus they also put on doing team activities, problem solving or guessing the amount of bamboo's in a bush.
Is AT selling not the primary purpose of the quest? I believe the bikes and riders should be tested to the limit. To the extend that these people come afterwards and sell their invincible 990's (I ride an 1190 and get reminded of how awesome the 990 is frequently) and that you know where these bikes were and hear there was no mechanical failures. Thats how you get someone like me punting the AT. Thats how hou get viewers, shares and sales

I totally agree, make the challenge/quest focus on riderskills and bike ability.

If you want team activities, enter a triathlon.

You clearly havenít done a triathlon?

There arenít teams in them.
I wonder where that road goes? And that, has usually made all the difference. Appologies to Mr Frost

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Offline Hardy de Kock

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Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
« Reply #105 on: April 01, 2018, 11:39:56 am »
Hardy I think there is something else to take into consideration here.

Please say how you would like the quest to be different from the GS trophy?

Reason for asking, this list is taking the direction of being willing and andventurous. Not much focus on skill. That makes for boring tv. The biggest let down of the gs trophy is all this focus they also put on doing team activities, problem solving or guessing the amount of bamboo's in a bush.
Is AT selling not the primary purpose of the quest? I believe the bikes and riders should be tested to the limit. To the extend that these people come afterwards and sell their invincible 990's (I ride an 1190 and get reminded of how awesome the 990 is frequently) and that you know where these bikes were and hear there was no mechanical failures. Thats how you get someone like me punting the AT. Thats how hou get viewers, shares and sales

I totally agree, make the challenge/quest focus on riderskills and bike ability.

If you want team activities, enter a triathlon.

Molten & 2SD

I hear you and I fully understand the reasoning.

I will tell you what will be lost, if I change the dynamics of the competition though :

During boot camp, McSack dropped his bike in a rocky side slope, and with his typical bad luck, cracked the cylinder, or gearbox cover. (Can't remember) One of the instructors called me to tell me the bike is dead and that I can scrape McSack's name of the list.
McSack came to me after the test in the rocky slopes and apologised sincerely. After his apology he added "I guess I am going home, but I would like to thank you for the opportunity. . His words struck home, as I realised that there are only a very few adventurers out there that had the skills to look like a Tau, Kamanya or a Throttle Jockey on these big adventure bikes.
We chose McSack to go with us on Quest, and I doubt if there are ANY person that was on Quest, that would now, in hindsight, not have him with us any day of the week.
Grant Pentalow had a few spectacular falls, and came back with broken collarbones etc. But Grant Pentalow discovered who he really was, and came back with his head held high, and his pride intact.

Andrew Johnstone (Kamanya) was teamed with Philip Groenewald (Gryphh). Philip will tell you that he was as nervous about sand as McSack was. After 5 days of riding and help from the instructors, but more importantly, from his team mate, who makes sand riding look like childs play, Philip emerged as a very decent sand rider. To be able to see the self confidence shining out of him, as he came racing down the Khumib riverbed made me realise that we were onto something.

There are several incidents that made me thankful for the format of the competition, but I understand that you had to be there to understand it.

Molten - There is a whats app group for the Quest riders of which I am part, and I can tell you that now, today, seven months after Quest, the group is as busy as they were the day after Quest.
I look at the poll above and what I see is people not rating all out riding skills as high in the priority order as one would think.

« Last Edit: April 01, 2018, 11:41:14 am by Hardy de Kock »
 

Offline Tom van Brits

Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
« Reply #106 on: April 01, 2018, 12:08:55 pm »
This is probably a repeat of what someone else may have said on the thread, I could not read all today but all you need is an adventurous spirit and more importantly the 'get up and go! - Many people have the adventurous spirit but not the get up and go and will rather read adventure or watch related television programs.

If I and many others had to wait for money, the right bike or whatever; adventure specific to bikes would have never materialized for us.

One of the options above should have been 'the get up and go'
 

Offline m0lt3n

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Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
« Reply #107 on: April 01, 2018, 01:00:08 pm »
Hardy I think there is something else to take into consideration here.

Please say how you would like the quest to be different from the GS trophy?

Reason for asking, this list is taking the direction of being willing and andventurous. Not much focus on skill. That makes for boring tv. The biggest let down of the gs trophy is all this focus they also put on doing team activities, problem solving or guessing the amount of bamboo's in a bush.
Is AT selling not the primary purpose of the quest? I believe the bikes and riders should be tested to the limit. To the extend that these people come afterwards and sell their invincible 990's (I ride an 1190 and get reminded of how awesome the 990 is frequently) and that you know where these bikes were and hear there was no mechanical failures. Thats how you get someone like me punting the AT. Thats how hou get viewers, shares and sales

I totally agree, make the challenge/quest focus on riderskills and bike ability.

If you want team activities, enter a triathlon.

Molten & 2SD

I hear you and I fully understand the reasoning.

I will tell you what will be lost, if I change the dynamics of the competition though :

During boot camp, McSack dropped his bike in a rocky side slope, and with his typical bad luck, cracked the cylinder, or gearbox cover. (Can't remember) One of the instructors called me to tell me the bike is dead and that I can scrape McSack's name of the list.
McSack came to me after the test in the rocky slopes and apologised sincerely. After his apology he added "I guess I am going home, but I would like to thank you for the opportunity. . His words struck home, as I realised that there are only a very few adventurers out there that had the skills to look like a Tau, Kamanya or a Throttle Jockey on these big adventure bikes.
We chose McSack to go with us on Quest, and I doubt if there are ANY person that was on Quest, that would now, in hindsight, not have him with us any day of the week.
Grant Pentalow had a few spectacular falls, and came back with broken collarbones etc. But Grant Pentalow discovered who he really was, and came back with his head held high, and his pride intact.

Andrew Johnstone (Kamanya) was teamed with Philip Groenewald (Gryphh). Philip will tell you that he was as nervous about sand as McSack was. After 5 days of riding and help from the instructors, but more importantly, from his team mate, who makes sand riding look like childs play, Philip emerged as a very decent sand rider. To be able to see the self confidence shining out of him, as he came racing down the Khumib riverbed made me realise that we were onto something.

There are several incidents that made me thankful for the format of the competition, but I understand that you had to be there to understand it.

Molten - There is a whats app group for the Quest riders of which I am part, and I can tell you that now, today, seven months after Quest, the group is as busy as they were the day after Quest.
I look at the poll above and what I see is people not rating all out riding skills as high in the priority order as one would think.



But I agree with your format! People falling makes for good tv!
And I also did not use one of my votes for rider skill. Did not know though that it was a ticklist for Quest. Which comes back to the question, what is the purpose of Quest? The event is sponsored and I am sure the sponsors have certain expectations?

KTMKobus do you know the GS trophy? If it was purely based on rider skill our guys would have wipped them. But instead, as mentioned, one of the challenges was guessing the amount of Bamboo in a Bamboo bush. There was also navigation challenges which was boring but I can understand it being necessary.

An inexperienced 20yo wont get all excited to go buy an AT after watching a reality show where rider skills, bike challenges and such is not the centrepoint off the show, showing off the bike. This was also not the priority with the previous Quest. But, saying this I do believe Quest 1 did succeed tbough. It succeeded to a certain extend in my eyes because of the reviews I read here and on Facebook after the show. But the respected Wilddogs have been used now, the people like me reached. New people wont be reached using the same method again.
Dooie visse gaan saam met die stroom...
 
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Offline Kobus Myburgh

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Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
« Reply #108 on: April 01, 2018, 02:38:32 pm »
m0lt3n, I find your comments very interesting. :thumleft:

To answer your question: I do follow and understand the GS Trophy yes.  I even contemplated participating at one stage, but couldnít make the time to practice.  Feedback park outside Centurion was a perfect playground for honing those particular practical skills. 

With regards to the 20yo:  I donít see that as the AT market, as a matter of fact, I donít see that as any big adventure bike market.  At 20 years old all I wanted to do is go flat out and hence the enduro period.  Very few >20<30yo can afford a big Adventure bike.  What made Look what youíre missing so interesting?  Rider skill, or the places to go see and the roads taking you there, with the freedom only experienced on a motorcycle?  Multiply the beautiful places x 100, the riding terrain x 200, backed up by an experienced professional crew and youíve got an idea of the Quest.  Competing in a different format will bring a magnitude of different challenges and feel to the event. 

20 of us will always be bias towards the format that we experienced.  It worked, and it worked very well.  Hence, the different perspective I find very interesting.

Itís one of those things that I guess is as difficult to explain than it is to understand if you werenít part of it.  :thumleft:

Edit:  Adventure means different things to different people.  This will attract a multitude of opinions and perceived skills making up a true adventurer.  For me, not necessarily a competition:

ďA man practices the art of adventure when he heroically faces up to life. When he has the daring to open doors to new experiences. When he is unafraid of new ideas, new theories, and new philosophies. When he has the curiosity to experiment. When he breaks the chain of routine.Ē - Wilfred Peterson, The Art of Living
« Last Edit: April 01, 2018, 02:43:48 pm by ktmkobus »
"If you have men who will only come if they know there is a good road, I don't want them.  I want men who will come if there is no road at all."

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Offline 2StrokeDan

Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
« Reply #109 on: April 01, 2018, 02:42:59 pm »
Totally disagree with the last two posts.  There is already a GS Challenge, there is enduroís and there are rallyís.  If you want to test those specific skills, the platform is already created.

The Quest is something totally different, albeit a test of rider skill, bike ability and durability.  Although in competition format, it is so much more than that:  Quest - True Adventure is the full event name.  Many guys can ride a bike extremely well, but put all of the comments and suggestions together from this thread and you find an animal totally different from a skilled rider only.

This makes more sense, let me change my tune to say that rider skill/bike toughness and ability must make up the bulk of the test.

Coming to think about it properly :thumleft: I have to come to the conclusion that when it comes to "adventure riding" a rider's bike skills, while he should be able to help himself well, is actually

less important than things like tenacity, mechanical sympathy/aptitude, etc.

In fact, only in a solo event is mechanical aptitude very important.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2018, 02:49:45 pm by 2StrokeDan »
 

Offline Tom van Brits

Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
« Reply #110 on: April 01, 2018, 03:14:13 pm »




ďA man practices the art of adventure when he heroically faces up to life. When he has the daring to open doors to new experiences. When he is unafraid of new ideas, new theories, and new philosophies. When he has the curiosity to experiment. When he breaks the chain of routine.Ē - Wilfred Peterson, The Art of Living



Now give than man a Bells  :thumleft:
 

Offline m0lt3n

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Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
« Reply #111 on: April 01, 2018, 05:46:30 pm »
Some good angles discussed here. Didnt even think of Long way down.

I do maintain though, I would much rather watch an episode of one of the KTM rallies in new zeeland or australia or such than

Uhm

Cant even think of an example, there is examples though but I am honestly hitting a blank, as you wont watch something like that twice.

One must remember though that at the time of Long way down there wasnt many similar stories or series, many options. Now there are.


I would watch Quest 2 though, regardless.
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Offline Dwerg

Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
« Reply #112 on: April 01, 2018, 06:03:56 pm »
Iíd still watch long way down over something more riding focussed. In the end the tavel aspect combined with peopleís personalities and some adversity is what makes for an interesting show. Production quality is also key. Watching events on a show is a little pointless because all you see is bikes whizzing past a camera man
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Offline eberhard

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Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
« Reply #113 on: April 01, 2018, 06:09:19 pm »
Take the body builder, the parade soldier, the surfer and the recognisance unit guy. They are all men (for this argument). They have all one major thing in common Ė they are and have to be physically in good shape. The major difference, however, is: you can easily identify the body builder for who he is, same with the soldier boy and the surfer boy. You cannot on the outside identify the recce for who he is.

How is this applicable?

It is one thing to be able to spin your bike on the rear wheel, to use your front brake successfully for a high speed sudden stop in deep sand, to balance the bike on two wooden poles, etc. and sometimes it is awesome to see guys do that. And, as above, you can easily identify them. They average to look the same and think the same and ride the same type of bikes. The real adventure rider looks normal and mostly rides non-designer bikes and refrains from participation in organised group events. You cannot see him for what he is. He has no point to prove, since he is living the point. He is doing it, he is not talking it.

Each to his own, you cannot compare apples with oranges. As I said at the beginning: you have your Rossis and your motocross champs. They are good to excellent at what they do. Respect to them. They also have adventure. They also require to have certain attributes which not all of us have. We all have adventure, but to do a local cross-country layout successfully in record time is something totally different than to cross the Sahara from Agadir to Tripoli. Normally the body builders donít make the selection for the recognisance unit, and vice versa.
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Offline Hardy de Kock

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Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
« Reply #114 on: April 01, 2018, 06:16:39 pm »
Some good angles discussed here. Didnt even think of Long way down.

I do maintain though, I would much rather watch an episode of one of the KTM rallies in new zeeland or australia or such than

Uhm

Cant even think of an example, there is examples though but I am honestly hitting a blank, as you wont watch something like that twice.

One must remember though that at the time of Long way down there wasnt many similar stories or series, many options. Now there are.


I would watch Quest 2 though, regardless.

Molten - Nothing wrong with what you mentioned, as it has been proven true in the past.

The organisers of Camel Trophy ran out of ideas during the latter part of the Trophy in 98', and resorted to a more Ironman approach (Kayaking, mountain biking etc). This did not resonate with Land Rover and they pulled out soon after.
Honda, like Land Rover did in the beginning of Camel Trophy, recognizes the fact that we are not all born with the natural, raw talent of a Toby Price etc, and therefor the team orientated format.

I believe we are going to surprise you with the next Quest - whether you are watching the videos on You Tube - or roughing it out with 19 other riders somewhere in a riverbed in Namibia......

« Last Edit: April 01, 2018, 06:22:12 pm by Hardy de Kock »
 

Offline BlueBull2007

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Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
« Reply #115 on: April 01, 2018, 06:43:01 pm »
Hardy, maybe start another thread on Quest? :deal:


A good adventure rider is anyone who is willing to perhaps ride or travel a little bit out of their comfort zone, dabble in a little bit of risk on a journey somewhere on a bike. It does not even have to be a multi-day journey.

It has not one iota to do with riding skill or the type of bike or whether it is a team event or group ride or where you ride. 


"Oh he is a good adventure rider." .... So what.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2018, 06:43:44 pm by BlueBull2007 »
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Offline Hardy de Kock

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Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
« Reply #116 on: April 01, 2018, 06:51:26 pm »
Hardy, maybe start another thread on Quest? :deal:


A good adventure rider is anyone who is willing to perhaps ride or travel a little bit out of their comfort zone, dabble in a little bit of risk on a journey somewhere on a bike. It does not even have to be a multi-day journey.

It has not one iota to do with riding skill or the type of bike or whether it is a team event or group ride or where you ride. 


"Oh he is a good adventure rider." .... So what.

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Offline Casting from Turd

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Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
« Reply #117 on: April 01, 2018, 07:20:22 pm »
Maybe a "Good" adventure rider is the oke that jumps on his bike and rides......period...

Taking the less traveled roads to nowhere

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Offline m0lt3n

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Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
« Reply #118 on: April 01, 2018, 08:05:00 pm »
Care to share some plans with the next Quest? When will it be? Same area?

I am very interested in your thoughts of what you plan on doing different?

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Offline SlŠinte Mhaith

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Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
« Reply #119 on: April 01, 2018, 08:34:54 pm »
Sub

Take two people going on a similar trip.  The one has bike problems or canít fix a puncture, run into trouble along the way, canít cover the distance, arrive late at night. The other get it done without a fuss and less trouble.

What is the differences between the two?

It is a bit of experience, a bit of planning, bit of mechanical aptitude, bit of riding skill, etc. And a lot if attitude.