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Offline JustBendIt

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Re: Capie and Vaalie taken for a ride by dodgy Russian
« Reply #80 on: April 12, 2018, 08:56:18 am »
That said - what was the contingency if one of you got a large sidewall cut?

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« Last Edit: April 12, 2018, 08:56:50 am by JustBendIt »
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Offline Xpat

Re: Capie and Vaalie taken for a ride by dodgy Russian
« Reply #81 on: April 12, 2018, 09:08:31 am »
Bliksem Manne, dis nou 'n EPIC trip! As ek 10 jaar jonger was sou ek dit regtig graag wou doen!! Hats off to you all!  :thumleft:

How old are you? Bertie is 56 or some such and I think there are people over 60 often on Wildwood tours (though they do not ride the stuff we have done so far).

On my last trip in Kaokoland when clutch on my Tenere died half way up Van Zyl's pass, I got my ass saved by Swiss mechanic on RXV450 who was very close if not over 70 riding solo day trips around and liaising back to his tour group only in the evenings.

I don't think age matters that much - more the level of health and fitness. On a right bike (that is paramount - most people rock up on too heavy bike) most of this is quite easily doable by well preserved 60 year's olds IMO.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2018, 09:18:22 am by Xpat »
 

Offline Buff

Re: Capie and Vaalie taken for a ride by dodgy Russian
« Reply #82 on: April 12, 2018, 09:22:16 am »
Wow, absolutely stunning riding terrain and photographs, loving the RR, thanks guys  :thumleft:

This one is certainly going onto the bucket list  :drif:
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Offline BiG DoM

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Re: Capie and Vaalie taken for a ride by dodgy Russian
« Reply #83 on: April 12, 2018, 10:26:56 am »

Any tyre insurance?  :peepwall:  :pot:

I use the C02 on my Husky 610 and been very happy with it and good likespan  :thumleft: Definately more gnarly than the E09 I use on the HP2 (you get two versions - Dakar is stronger with extra sidewall ply).  That said - what was the contingency if one of you got a large sidewall cut?

What is tyre insurance? Tyre is a consumption material like oil filter. Can you get oil filter insurance? Quite frankly if one has a mindset to buy tyre insurance, they shoiuld not go for trip like this. On this kind of trip the whole bike is consumption material.

Contingency is very simple and I already mentioned it here - spare tubes (regardless whether you have extra rubber, pure air or foam in your tyre) + lotsa patches (something I forgot to instruct the other two to bring and it has almost bitten us in the ass later on). Nothing beats good old tube out in the sticks.

Edit: and just to put things into perspective, Robbies pass is about 5 - 7 km long, so not such a big load on the tyres (even though it took us about 3 hour to cross). I think faster riding on rocks like you have seen on those more open sections kills tyres faster. That said C02 worked like a charm - Bertie had new ones and I believe at the end of our 2000 or so km long loop he had probably over half of the thread left and mine  - which I already used in LEsotho prior to this trip - still had plenty left.

Justin's E09 wasn't new and wasn't Dakar version (they do not import it in the approximately right size for 500). So unsurprisingly it was a toast at the end of this trip.
[/quote]

Sorry the tyre insurance question was a joke  >:D  http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=222968.0

My question regarding tyre contingency related directly to the possibility of a large gaping cut in the sidewall - would you try and patch inside, hold closed with cable ties or go for the sunhat and takkies as JBI suggests  :biggrin:
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Offline Buff

Re: Capie and Vaalie taken for a ride by dodgy Russian
« Reply #84 on: April 12, 2018, 10:46:17 am »
Regarding the issue of repairing the inner tube of the tubeliss system:

Theoretically it should not be a problem at all because that small tube is essentially just a bicycle tube. Most modern road bicycles have their tires pumped to between 7 and 9 bars depending on the weight of the rider. Some even go as high as 12bars with modern clinchers. I have often repaired mine and pumped them to 9 bar without any further issues.

However, thatís only when repairing pin picks from devils thorns etc. If the tube is cut from a pinch flat (which is the most likely thing on a tubeliss system) and itís anything larger than 1 or 2mm, the repair will not hold due to the volume of air escaping onto that patch. You can try use a bigger patch and give it time to cure but time is not always an option when stuck in the field.

I totally agree with Xpat, tubes remain the best form of backup... just make sure to check your tire thoroughly for thorns before fitting it if you previously ran tubeliss because chances are you'll have one or two sticking through that the slime has plugged and they will puncture your fresh tube.
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Offline Xpat

Re: Capie and Vaalie taken for a ride by dodgy Russian
« Reply #85 on: April 12, 2018, 10:56:15 am »
@BiG DoM: I have dipped into that insurance thread and run away immediately.

Regarding contingency: if you mean really catastrophically big cut, then I'm not sure what contingency would be. But I'm sure we (and by we I mean Justin, who despite being Cape hippie is also one of the best McGyvers out there) would figure something out. From top of my head - Bertie had mousses, so he would probably be fine to ride it out. and three of the remining tyres had for most of the part Tubeliss in, which one should be able to ride out completely flat easily as the Tubeliss will hold the tyre on the rim (assuming that one is not punctured of course).

With tubes I would try to stabilize the cut with duct-tape or cable ties - should work fine on knobblies. Rode almost whole of Ethiopia with duct tape around a gash - here not very good image - it is the silver thingy on the front wheel;







And the last resort - I have seen somewhere Adam Riemann to fix flat on his tubeless 1190 by stuffing tyre full with grass and riding it out. If some Aussie can do it, sure South AFricans can (the Russian would just let the South AFrican ride his bike out)!
« Last Edit: April 12, 2018, 10:58:46 am by Xpat »
 
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Offline Xpat

Re: Capie and Vaalie taken for a ride by dodgy Russian
« Reply #86 on: April 12, 2018, 11:01:14 am »
Regarding the issue of repairing the inner tube of the tubeliss system:

Theoretically it should not be a problem at all because that small tube is essentially just a bicycle tube. Most modern road bicycles have their tires pumped to between 7 and 9 bars depending on the weight of the rider. Some even go as high as 12bars with modern clinchers. I have often repaired mine and pumped them to 9 bar without any further issues.

However, thatís only when repairing pin picks from devils thorns etc. If the tube is cut from a pinch flat (which is the most likely thing on a tubeliss system) and itís anything larger than 1 or 2mm, the repair will not hold due to the volume of air escaping onto that patch. You can try use a bigger patch and give it time to cure but time is not always an option when stuck in the field.

I totally agree with Xpat, tubes remain the best form of backup... just make sure to check your tire thoroughly for thorns before fitting it if you previously ran tubeliss because chances are you'll have one or two sticking through that the slime has plugged and they will puncture your fresh tube.

Interesting Buff, didn't know that bycicles run at those kind of pressures. So can one theoretically (if the size is right and valve of course) use bicycle tube in Tubeliss?

And if the inner can be actually patched, does it mean that Justin is actually useless at patching tubes? That would explain why he had to spend almost every day lubricating rubber...

Offline JustBendIt

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Re: Capie and Vaalie taken for a ride by dodgy Russian
« Reply #87 on: April 12, 2018, 11:05:23 am »
Regarding the issue of repairing the inner tube of the tubeliss system:

Theoretically it should not be a problem at all because that small tube is essentially just a bicycle tube. Most modern road bicycles have their tires pumped to between 7 and 9 bars depending on the weight of the rider. Some even go as high as 12bars with modern clinchers. I have often repaired mine and pumped them to 9 bar without any further issues.

However, thatís only when repairing pin picks from devils thorns etc. If the tube is cut from a pinch flat (which is the most likely thing on a tubeliss system) and itís anything larger than 1 or 2mm, the repair will not hold due to the volume of air escaping onto that patch. You can try use a bigger patch and give it time to cure but time is not always an option when stuck in the field.

I totally agree with Xpat, tubes remain the best form of backup... just make sure to check your tire thoroughly for thorns before fitting it if you previously ran tubeliss because chances are you'll have one or two sticking through that the slime has plugged and they will puncture your fresh tube.

Interesting Buff, didn't know that bycicles run at those kind of pressures. So can one theoretically (if the size is right and valve of course) use bicycle tube in Tubeliss?

And if the inner can be actually patched, does it mean that Justin is actually useless at patching tubes? That would explain why he had to spend almost every day lubricating rubber...

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Offline BiG DoM

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Re: Capie and Vaalie taken for a ride by dodgy Russian
« Reply #88 on: April 12, 2018, 11:09:56 am »

And the last resort - I have seen somewhere Adam Riemann to fix flat on his tubeless 1190 by stuffing tyre full with grass and riding it out. If some Aussie can do it, sure South AFricans can (the Russian would just let the South AFrican ride his bike out)!

Ja seen the grass trick a few times  :biggrin: 

So I am right in saying you were also running Tubliss? (sorry you may have clarified earlier)
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Offline Xpat

Re: Capie and Vaalie taken for a ride by dodgy Russian
« Reply #89 on: April 12, 2018, 11:13:40 am »

And the last resort - I have seen somewhere Adam Riemann to fix flat on his tubeless 1190 by stuffing tyre full with grass and riding it out. If some Aussie can do it, sure South AFricans can (the Russian would just let the South AFrican ride his bike out)!

Ja seen the grass trick a few times  :biggrin: 

So I am right in saying you were also running Tubliss? (sorry you may have clarified earlier)

Yes, Justin and I were running Tubeliss - well Justin had to repolace his front with tube on day1 and I had to use a tube for one day, until I got inner Tubeliss spare from Justin. Bertie was on mousses - which I tried to dissuade him from (at least I forced him to bring spare tubes should the mouses go south), but to be fair they did work without a glitch on this trip

Offline Dwerg

Re: Capie and Vaalie taken for a ride by dodgy Russian
« Reply #90 on: April 12, 2018, 11:18:52 am »
My concern with mousse is what do you do with it after a failure? You have to carry that thing with you until you can get to a place where you can discard it. Can't stuff it in a bag and certainly can't dump it in the bush.
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Offline Xpat

Re: Capie and Vaalie taken for a ride by dodgy Russian
« Reply #91 on: April 12, 2018, 11:21:46 am »
My concern with mousse is what do you do with it after a failure? You have to carry that thing with you until you can get to a place where you can discard it. Can't stuff it in a bag and certainly can't dump it in the bush.

You have to lesser extent the same problem with Tubeliss, you need to pack the hard inner red liner somewhere and it is a bit unwieldy - you can see it strapped to Justin's luggage on some of the pictures. And it is quite expensive, so you might not want to discard the thing and have to carry it all the way.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2018, 11:22:20 am by Xpat »
 

Offline BiG DoM

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Re: Capie and Vaalie taken for a ride by dodgy Russian
« Reply #92 on: April 12, 2018, 11:30:35 am »
My concern with mousse is what do you do with it after a failure? You have to carry that thing with you until you can get to a place where you can discard it. Can't stuff it in a bag and certainly can't dump it in the bush.

You have to lesser extent the same problem with Tubeliss, you need to pack the hard inner red liner somewhere and it is a bit unwieldy - you can see it strapped to Justin's luggage on some of the pictures. And it is quite expensive, so you might not want to discard the thing and have to carry it all the way.

True - that is the expensive part, Tubeliss tubes are like R180.  And yes to cart that black mamba mousse will also be a PIA - messy things - and yes again seen a photo of a discarded one on Doodakker  :-\
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Offline armpump

Re: Capie and Vaalie taken for a ride by dodgy Russian
« Reply #93 on: April 12, 2018, 11:35:41 am »
I read a folded bank note works a charm at keeping tube from popping out on side wall cut

 

Offline BiG DoM

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Re: Capie and Vaalie taken for a ride by dodgy Russian
« Reply #94 on: April 12, 2018, 11:38:41 am »
I read a folded bank note works a charm at keeping tube from popping out on side wall cut

 :imaposer:  I would opt for the stronger but less buoyant credit card.
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Offline Breekbeen

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Re: Capie and Vaalie taken for a ride by dodgy Russian
« Reply #95 on: April 12, 2018, 12:24:26 pm »
Regarding the issue of repairing the inner tube of the tubeliss system:

Theoretically it should not be a problem at all because that small tube is essentially just a bicycle tube. Most modern road bicycles have their tires pumped to between 7 and 9 bars depending on the weight of the rider. Some even go as high as 12bars with modern clinchers. I have often repaired mine and pumped them to 9 bar without any further issues.

However, that’s only when repairing pin picks from devils thorns etc. If the tube is cut from a pinch flat (which is the most likely thing on a tubeliss system) and it’s anything larger than 1 or 2mm, the repair will not hold due to the volume of air escaping onto that patch. You can try use a bigger patch and give it time to cure but time is not always an option when stuck in the field.

I totally agree with Xpat, tubes remain the best form of backup... just make sure to check your tire thoroughly for thorns before fitting it if you previously ran tubeliss because chances are you'll have one or two sticking through that the slime has plugged and they will puncture your fresh tube.

Buff, the little I know about Tubliss is that the inner tube only seal spokes and act as a rim lock, so there are nothing sitting on the outside like the tire of the bicycle.
Is this correct?
That is why the tubliss inner tube is so thick.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2018, 12:30:57 pm by Breekbeen »
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Offline armpump

Re: Capie and Vaalie taken for a ride by dodgy Russian
« Reply #96 on: April 12, 2018, 12:27:41 pm »
 

Offline Breekbeen

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Re: Capie and Vaalie taken for a ride by dodgy Russian
« Reply #97 on: April 12, 2018, 12:49:02 pm »


This is what I thought, so a bicycle tube will just inflate till it burst, no way you will get a bicycle tube to 7 bar in that way.
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Offline Xpat

Re: Capie and Vaalie taken for a ride by dodgy Russian
« Reply #98 on: April 12, 2018, 01:02:22 pm »
No, it will not - only the blue thing is tube, the red thing is hard liner.

Let's keep this please focused on the trip and topics that are related to it. I know I asked the question but it was in the context of Justin trying to fix the tube or use spare in the sticks, as that is the problem he run into.

If you are interested in how Tubeliss works please open separate thread.  :thumleft:
« Last Edit: April 12, 2018, 01:10:25 pm by Xpat »
 

Offline Grunder

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Re: Capie and Vaalie taken for a ride by dodgy Russian
« Reply #99 on: April 12, 2018, 01:58:19 pm »
 :sip: really enjoying this R&R
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