Dont get me wrong, I dont like whinging but this time I really think I have a right. 
You decide for yourself.
The majority of biking suppliers and accessories people out there are good, some of them excellent. I can Think of MX Adventure, fantastic friendly service at competative prices. Ive heard Runner is just as good, World of Accesories in Randburg, WildatheartAdventures, and GSAdventures are all great suppliers who have really gone the extra mile for me. Thank you all.
Then there are those who think they are the great, say they are the best but then rip you off so badly you dont know whether you are coming or going. And they call themselves professional. Now dont get me wrong, I had sucker written all over me, but I prefer to take people at face value and I´ll trust someone until he proves other wise. Im prepared to pay a higher price for a premium service and attention, but at the same time I feel that gives me a certain licence to be a demanding client. If I dont get what I want and quick, I normally go somewhere else.
Background
I was battling to get gear for our brand new bikes in the limited time I had in SA while running them in and despite trying to arrange stuff months in advance this is not always so easy when you have one of the first few 800GS and 650GS where there is not a lot of standard stuff out there that fits. I had to think about shipping bikes back to South America as well, all while trying to enjoy a holiday as well. It wasnt easy. Anyway, I met another friendly client in Lyndhurst Auto (btw. Mike is another excellent guy to buy bikes from, thanks a million bud! :thumleft: ) who recommended I go to CY TECH to get my accessories.
What happened
Others warned me not to go there, but it seemed like a jacked setup and he had a lot of gear availible. Service was cordial. I bought a crap load of gear for obscene quantities of cash, ordered some sheepskin covers that was supposed to be coming in the next day and asked him about maybe shipping my bikes to Perú and he said he would organise everything for me if I wanted, would have nothing to worry about. Great!
Well not according the guys I rode with. They all shook their heads at me and said stay away from him. I honestly didn´t get that feeling so I shrugged it off as sour grapes, and instead asked him to give me info and a quote on shipping the bikes. Look at getting a canret for the bikes etc. as well. I went back twice in three weeks to his shop to pick up the sheepskins, but it hadn´t arrived despite being promised each time it was in customs, this is africa and it would be there the next day. I also phoned on three different occasions, emailed once (told you I was difficult client :mwink and each time I prompted for a quote. He told me "Just leave your bikes with me, I´ll arrange it all for you" . I thought "no way,it makes sense to first see his quote." This was never forthcoming. Eventually three days before I leave, I get this email:
August 14, 2008
Greetings Neil,
Just to update you.
There is a minimum of R20, 000.00 per motorcycle required for a Carne De Passage for South or North America from the AA of SA
The 25 page Carne De Passage for 1 year is around R2, 800.00 per motorcycle
Best regards,
Ray
So I thought to myself: "If I leave my bikes with him, hes gonna charge me a lot more than just the carnets. I will have no option but to pay, because I´ll be 14,000km away. I dont have my sheepskins, I´d better take my business somewhere else." We eventually shipped the bikes through a great friend of ours with help from Keith from World of Accessories, and BMW Cresta, which was closest to their shop. Thanks guys for that! :thumleft: You were all great.
So here was my response to Ray, I must admit I was bit gatvol with the lack of commitment by this stage:
August 20
Dear Ray,
Trust you are well and everything is going great in preparation for your trip through Africa with the Harley guys.
I never got a quote from you so we made alternative arrangements to ship the bikes. Turns out we never needed a carnet either. Thanks for your help nevertheless. Much appreciated.
We did not get the two sheepskin covers we paid for so I would be most grateful if you could deposit the balance of our cash payment into my account as soon as possible (2 x R1900 + VAT). My banking details are:
<edited out>
Please let me know when you can do it and when the transfer is completed.
Thanks & Cheers
Neil
Here was His Response:
August 21
Greetings Neil,
Thank you for your e-mail
I am extremely surprised and somewhat disappointed why I did not even get the common ethical courtesy of a phone call from you before you left to at least tell me you have made alternate arrangements (which was no problem at all) considering I spent a lot of time, effort and money (which equates into time and which is not the point of the matter but the ethical principal) trying to get you the best prices/rates for your motorcycles back to Peru.
I forwarded all the information that you requested including the information about the Carne De Passages.
I also generously assisted you with a new set of hand guard inserts and mounting brackets for your motorcycle and offered to assist you with your wifeâ??s hand guards considering the amount of times the motorcycles had been over on there sides. I do not think another dealer would have even entertained the thought of assisting you considering the state and damage of the hand guards
Considering the ethical principal of the above matter and the manner in which I was inappropriately treated kindly forward me your address in Peru where I can send the sheepskins to as I refuse to refund you.
We are a company which prides ourselves with ethical principals, professionalism and assisting all our clientele wherever possible but will not let clients take advantage of us or our goodwill.
Your understanding of our decision should be respected
Enjoy your motorcycles and ride safely
Best regards,
Ray
So I thought an appropriate response was necesssary:
August 21
Ray,
I am equally surprised, shocked actually, at your response to my email. Since you wish to make this an issue I will too:
With all the other things I had to do last week before we left for Peru, I simply did not have the time to get back to you yet again before I left. You knew I was leaving on Sunday yet you were unable to give me what I asked for even though you had nearly three weeks in which to do it.
You never phoned, me you never re-assured me. I would have thought at the very least you would be a little more understanding, especially considering I phoned you on numerous occasions and even drove a round trip of 150km right accross Gauteng TWICE to pick up those seat covers which werent there, and to pick up your formal quotation for the carnets and arranging the shipment of the bikes. This I did not recieve either, all I have from you is a two-line email (below) telling me its going to cost a minimum of R46,000 to get carne´s for the bikes, and still nothing on the cost of shipping them. Now Im sorry Ray but that, is not what I call a quote.
The decision not to go with you for the shipment of the bikes had absolutely nothing to do with ethics as you implied. It had everything to do with you being unable to deliver what you promised me. Why should poor performance be rewarded? Even if its in Africa.
You said: I also generously assisted you with a new set of hand guard inserts and mounting brackets for your motorcycle and offered to assist you with your wife's hand guards considering the amount of times the motorcycles had been over on there sides. I do not think another dealer would have even entertained the thought of assisting you considering the state and damage of the hand guards
Frankly, I think most dealers would glady replace a set of hand guards when a client has spent R40,840 in cash on stock, knowing full well that the cost would be recovered by his next order of R46,000++(probably 80,000 all said and done), and to top it off have a very happy client who would in turn bring more clients in. I´ll ignore the fact that contrary to your allegations, the bikes did not fall hard at all and your product failed to hold up on two bikes ridden by not one but TWO different riders. I know, because I was there, and I take offence at being implied that I am a liar.
I´ll choose to ignore the fact many people, some of them professional riders have commented on that the poor quality of those hand protectors and the exhorbitant price you supplied them at. Then again, most dealers would leap at the opportunity to replace both sets of handguards as your competition did in fact, when I got the bikes shipped through them.
You said you are company "which prides ourselves with ethical principals, professionalism and assisting all our clientele wherever possible but will not let clients take advantage of us or our goodwill."
I have not taken advantage of your goodwill. If anything you have taken advantage of mine. When people asked me where I got all the accessories on our bikes, I proudly referred them to you. I chose to ignore, even challenge their remarks that you were a rip off, that some of your products dont in fact come from Italy, but from Midas, that you had once confided to others that "Every day has a sucker, its my job to find them and milk them as far as possible". Instead I told them that you had the stock that I needed, unlike others and you were able to help me when I needed with anything, not matter what, and that that was worth the premium I paid. I subsequently have done some of my own research and found that some of your products are overpriced. That got me thinking about who might be taking advantage of who. Why, without a quote and my bikes with you you would could charge me anything you liked.
"Your understanding of our decision should be respected"
Your understanding of my position as your client should be respected, especially in the light of your mission statement, and strong belief in ethics.
It is neither convenient (for either of us) or possible to now ship sheepskins to south america, because they needed to go with the bikes to legally get into the country. You will recall you told me on the 22 July, that the sheepskins were in customs and they would take a day or so before they would be in the shop. Unfortunately they were still in customs on the 14th August when I came back a second time to pick them up, so it is not unreasonable for the client to want his money back.
In the light of the above, I trust you will reconsider your decision, and transfer the money, as originally requested. This way, you can continue to pride yourselves in your professionalism without need for a lot more unpleasantness, something which would ultimately hurt your business and your reputation a lot more than it would hurt me.
Regards,
Neil
Well after this tirade, I got nothing but silence. Since then I have followed up with one liners asking him to pay back my R4300.00 that he OWES me, to no avail. I cannot recommend this guy, in fact I have made this post in the hope that others dont go down the same rocky road I have...
Oh and I did get new hand protectors in the end for less than half the price for the other bike, from a much more understanding supplier. ;D
Now short of going to speaking old Isabel Jones for a fair deal, I thought I would be interested to hear what your comments might be or is it just another case of sour grapes? :
You decide for yourself.The majority of biking suppliers and accessories people out there are good, some of them excellent. I can Think of MX Adventure, fantastic friendly service at competative prices. Ive heard Runner is just as good, World of Accesories in Randburg, WildatheartAdventures, and GSAdventures are all great suppliers who have really gone the extra mile for me. Thank you all.
Then there are those who think they are the great, say they are the best but then rip you off so badly you dont know whether you are coming or going. And they call themselves professional. Now dont get me wrong, I had sucker written all over me, but I prefer to take people at face value and I´ll trust someone until he proves other wise. Im prepared to pay a higher price for a premium service and attention, but at the same time I feel that gives me a certain licence to be a demanding client. If I dont get what I want and quick, I normally go somewhere else.
Background
I was battling to get gear for our brand new bikes in the limited time I had in SA while running them in and despite trying to arrange stuff months in advance this is not always so easy when you have one of the first few 800GS and 650GS where there is not a lot of standard stuff out there that fits. I had to think about shipping bikes back to South America as well, all while trying to enjoy a holiday as well. It wasnt easy. Anyway, I met another friendly client in Lyndhurst Auto (btw. Mike is another excellent guy to buy bikes from, thanks a million bud! :thumleft: ) who recommended I go to CY TECH to get my accessories.
What happened
Others warned me not to go there, but it seemed like a jacked setup and he had a lot of gear availible. Service was cordial. I bought a crap load of gear for obscene quantities of cash, ordered some sheepskin covers that was supposed to be coming in the next day and asked him about maybe shipping my bikes to Perú and he said he would organise everything for me if I wanted, would have nothing to worry about. Great!
Well not according the guys I rode with. They all shook their heads at me and said stay away from him. I honestly didn´t get that feeling so I shrugged it off as sour grapes, and instead asked him to give me info and a quote on shipping the bikes. Look at getting a canret for the bikes etc. as well. I went back twice in three weeks to his shop to pick up the sheepskins, but it hadn´t arrived despite being promised each time it was in customs, this is africa and it would be there the next day. I also phoned on three different occasions, emailed once (told you I was difficult client :mwink
and each time I prompted for a quote. He told me "Just leave your bikes with me, I´ll arrange it all for you" . I thought "no way,it makes sense to first see his quote." This was never forthcoming. Eventually three days before I leave, I get this email:August 14, 2008
Greetings Neil,
Just to update you.
There is a minimum of R20, 000.00 per motorcycle required for a Carne De Passage for South or North America from the AA of SA
The 25 page Carne De Passage for 1 year is around R2, 800.00 per motorcycle
Best regards,
Ray
So I thought to myself: "If I leave my bikes with him, hes gonna charge me a lot more than just the carnets. I will have no option but to pay, because I´ll be 14,000km away. I dont have my sheepskins, I´d better take my business somewhere else." We eventually shipped the bikes through a great friend of ours with help from Keith from World of Accessories, and BMW Cresta, which was closest to their shop. Thanks guys for that! :thumleft: You were all great.
So here was my response to Ray, I must admit I was bit gatvol with the lack of commitment by this stage:
August 20
Dear Ray,
Trust you are well and everything is going great in preparation for your trip through Africa with the Harley guys.
I never got a quote from you so we made alternative arrangements to ship the bikes. Turns out we never needed a carnet either. Thanks for your help nevertheless. Much appreciated.
We did not get the two sheepskin covers we paid for so I would be most grateful if you could deposit the balance of our cash payment into my account as soon as possible (2 x R1900 + VAT). My banking details are:
<edited out>
Please let me know when you can do it and when the transfer is completed.
Thanks & Cheers
Neil
Here was His Response:
August 21
Greetings Neil,
Thank you for your e-mail
I am extremely surprised and somewhat disappointed why I did not even get the common ethical courtesy of a phone call from you before you left to at least tell me you have made alternate arrangements (which was no problem at all) considering I spent a lot of time, effort and money (which equates into time and which is not the point of the matter but the ethical principal) trying to get you the best prices/rates for your motorcycles back to Peru.
I forwarded all the information that you requested including the information about the Carne De Passages.
I also generously assisted you with a new set of hand guard inserts and mounting brackets for your motorcycle and offered to assist you with your wifeâ??s hand guards considering the amount of times the motorcycles had been over on there sides. I do not think another dealer would have even entertained the thought of assisting you considering the state and damage of the hand guards
Considering the ethical principal of the above matter and the manner in which I was inappropriately treated kindly forward me your address in Peru where I can send the sheepskins to as I refuse to refund you.
We are a company which prides ourselves with ethical principals, professionalism and assisting all our clientele wherever possible but will not let clients take advantage of us or our goodwill.
Your understanding of our decision should be respected
Enjoy your motorcycles and ride safely
Best regards,
Ray
So I thought an appropriate response was necesssary:
August 21
Ray,
I am equally surprised, shocked actually, at your response to my email. Since you wish to make this an issue I will too:
With all the other things I had to do last week before we left for Peru, I simply did not have the time to get back to you yet again before I left. You knew I was leaving on Sunday yet you were unable to give me what I asked for even though you had nearly three weeks in which to do it.
You never phoned, me you never re-assured me. I would have thought at the very least you would be a little more understanding, especially considering I phoned you on numerous occasions and even drove a round trip of 150km right accross Gauteng TWICE to pick up those seat covers which werent there, and to pick up your formal quotation for the carnets and arranging the shipment of the bikes. This I did not recieve either, all I have from you is a two-line email (below) telling me its going to cost a minimum of R46,000 to get carne´s for the bikes, and still nothing on the cost of shipping them. Now Im sorry Ray but that, is not what I call a quote.
The decision not to go with you for the shipment of the bikes had absolutely nothing to do with ethics as you implied. It had everything to do with you being unable to deliver what you promised me. Why should poor performance be rewarded? Even if its in Africa.
You said: I also generously assisted you with a new set of hand guard inserts and mounting brackets for your motorcycle and offered to assist you with your wife's hand guards considering the amount of times the motorcycles had been over on there sides. I do not think another dealer would have even entertained the thought of assisting you considering the state and damage of the hand guards
Frankly, I think most dealers would glady replace a set of hand guards when a client has spent R40,840 in cash on stock, knowing full well that the cost would be recovered by his next order of R46,000++(probably 80,000 all said and done), and to top it off have a very happy client who would in turn bring more clients in. I´ll ignore the fact that contrary to your allegations, the bikes did not fall hard at all and your product failed to hold up on two bikes ridden by not one but TWO different riders. I know, because I was there, and I take offence at being implied that I am a liar.
I´ll choose to ignore the fact many people, some of them professional riders have commented on that the poor quality of those hand protectors and the exhorbitant price you supplied them at. Then again, most dealers would leap at the opportunity to replace both sets of handguards as your competition did in fact, when I got the bikes shipped through them.
You said you are company "which prides ourselves with ethical principals, professionalism and assisting all our clientele wherever possible but will not let clients take advantage of us or our goodwill."
I have not taken advantage of your goodwill. If anything you have taken advantage of mine. When people asked me where I got all the accessories on our bikes, I proudly referred them to you. I chose to ignore, even challenge their remarks that you were a rip off, that some of your products dont in fact come from Italy, but from Midas, that you had once confided to others that "Every day has a sucker, its my job to find them and milk them as far as possible". Instead I told them that you had the stock that I needed, unlike others and you were able to help me when I needed with anything, not matter what, and that that was worth the premium I paid. I subsequently have done some of my own research and found that some of your products are overpriced. That got me thinking about who might be taking advantage of who. Why, without a quote and my bikes with you you would could charge me anything you liked.
"Your understanding of our decision should be respected"
Your understanding of my position as your client should be respected, especially in the light of your mission statement, and strong belief in ethics.
It is neither convenient (for either of us) or possible to now ship sheepskins to south america, because they needed to go with the bikes to legally get into the country. You will recall you told me on the 22 July, that the sheepskins were in customs and they would take a day or so before they would be in the shop. Unfortunately they were still in customs on the 14th August when I came back a second time to pick them up, so it is not unreasonable for the client to want his money back.
In the light of the above, I trust you will reconsider your decision, and transfer the money, as originally requested. This way, you can continue to pride yourselves in your professionalism without need for a lot more unpleasantness, something which would ultimately hurt your business and your reputation a lot more than it would hurt me.
Regards,
Neil
Well after this tirade, I got nothing but silence. Since then I have followed up with one liners asking him to pay back my R4300.00 that he OWES me, to no avail. I cannot recommend this guy, in fact I have made this post in the hope that others dont go down the same rocky road I have...
Oh and I did get new hand protectors in the end for less than half the price for the other bike, from a much more understanding supplier. ;D
Now short of going to speaking old Isabel Jones for a fair deal, I thought I would be interested to hear what your comments might be or is it just another case of sour grapes? :
