Author Topic: Africa Twin Fork issue - Honda SA ... Now what ... (Read 9546 times)

RobLH · « **Reply #140 on:** May 16, 2018, 04:37:17 pm »

Quote from: Bwana on May 16, 2018, 04:00:30 pm

How many wild dogs own these bikes and are having shock problem. Not me and i on my second one as the first was burnt in the fire. My bike does very little tar.

Mine is 2 years old and has done about 15k. Had both seals replaced at different times in the last few months. Whether that means I have a shock problem I cannot say, let's see how long the next set of seals lasts before jumping to conclusions.

XRRX · « **Reply #141 on:** May 16, 2018, 06:00:11 pm »

Personally I'm very disappointed in this entire "issue"...
I was 99% set on trading my GS on a matt black AT - that was before I became aware of this problem and experiencing personally what sh^t it puts you in when the failure happens far from a dealer in the middle of nowhere! And I'm not even referring to the detremental effect it has on the bikes handling and safety!!

According to international feedback it will most likely happen to every 2016/17 model at some stage.. $:-\$

As a potential customer, I would really like to know what support Honda will give me...
Secondly, how much will it cost me in the long run to maintain this fork?
Is it QC problems on certain batches - or a design error?

I'm not at all in a position nor willing to spend a 250's price on getting working front suspention on an almost 200k bike - with the slogan: "True Adventure" ...

Then I'll rather go 850GS or KTM ...
At least they seem to support their customers better and take responsibility for their own mistakes...

BiG DoM · « **Reply #142 on:** May 16, 2018, 06:00:44 pm »

Quote from: RobLH on May 16, 2018, 04:37:17 pm

Quote from: Bwana on May 16, 2018, 04:00:30 pm
How many wild dogs own these bikes and are having shock problem. Not me and i on my second one as the first was burnt in the fire. My bike does very little tar.

Mine is 2 years old and has done about 15k. Had both seals replaced at different times in the last few months. Whether that means I have a shock problem I cannot say, let's see how long the next set of seals lasts before jumping to conclusions.

They all do that, Sir. No problem.

Kobus Myburgh · « **Reply #143 on:** May 16, 2018, 09:09:27 pm »

This certainly doesn’t make good reading for any AT owner.

It does however appear that a losing battle is fought trying to get a warranty claim or recall done. As stated, the issue is widely discussed on other forums and escalated to Honda Japan, which, in turn, have rejected it as a manufacturing ‘defect’.

Feedback as recent as a couple of days ago on another forum:

“I haven't posted in a while, but here's the end of our saga. My dealer contacted me and said Honda Japan has measured my mate's fork sent to them and could not find anything out of spec. And that the wear found was normal. No warranty claim to be honoured.

The following quote from what was posted on advrider.com

"Dear Mr Williams,

Thank you for contacting Honda Australia Motorcycles and Power Equipment regarding your CRF1000A.

We advise that warranty was denied for the wear on the front fork legs.

To quote from our technical department notes after a fork leg was sent to the Honda Factory for evaluation.

"The wear observed was on the rear side of the body, inside the outer tube. This point is where the stress concentrates most. Therefore rubbing with the slide bush by sliding during running presents the wear.
The parts were disassembled and measured. As a result the measuring of the dimensions of each part found no problem and no problem with the surface.

The parts were reassembled and the friction measurements were taken. No functional problems were found. Therefore, as no problem was found there is no action to be taken, The forks will not be covered under warranty."

Kind regards,

Chris |Honda Australia Motorcycle and Power Equipment Pty Ltd"

But on the bright side: 2018 models have Kashima coated forks. So Honda USA and Canada are still honouring warranty claims and replacing tubes. Honda Australia is not. “

If this remains the opinion of Honda Japan, it is probably understandable when Honda SA responds similarly. My question is then this:

- Will it affect ALL 2016/17 models?
- What is the correct/durable solution?
- What is the estimated cost?
- When is the right time to do it?

Prevention is said to be better than cure. If this is a real problem affecting all those year models, I would like to address it in parallel to any debate with Honda SA/Japan to avoid a similar experience ending a trip.

Bwana · « **Reply #144 on:** May 17, 2018, 09:46:20 am »

How many K's on # 2 now?

First one 9500km second one is on 6000kms.

Koet · « **Reply #145 on:** May 17, 2018, 09:51:48 am »

My AT is on almost 16K kilometers and no fork issue symptoms yet. Granted it spends majority of it's time on tar. Bought it second hand and the previous owner did do off-road.

I'm following this with great interest. I love the bike and will keep it for a long time, so when a fix is available for a reasonable price, I'll be implementing it ASAP.

Bwana · « **Reply #146 on:** May 17, 2018, 10:00:47 am »

We still have not established whether it is a fork issue or not, weeping seals can be caused by dust stone nicks or other marks on the rods. If it is a fork issue I will be extremely disappointed if Honda does not come to the party. My Dakar 50000Kms was on its third set of fork seals when I sold it. BMW claimed it was normal for the type of riding I was doing. A leaking seal should also not leave you stranded on a trip. Rode my Dakar many 2000KMs with a weeping seal once on a trip.

Bill the Bong · « **Reply #147 on:** May 17, 2018, 10:38:49 am »

Quote from: Bwana on May 17, 2018, 10:00:47 am

We still have not established whether it is a fork issue or not, weeping seals can be caused by dust stone nicks or other marks on the rods. If it is a fork issue I will be extremely disappointed if Honda does not come to the party. My Dakar 50000Kms was on its third set of fork seals when I sold it. BMW claimed it was normal for the type of riding I was doing. A leaking seal should also not leave you stranded on a trip. Rode my Dakar many 2000KMs with a weeping seal once on a trip.

Have you read from the beginning?

the_BOBNOB · « **Reply #148 on:** May 17, 2018, 10:48:53 am »

Quote from: Bwana on May 17, 2018, 10:00:47 am

We still have not established whether it is a fork issue or not, weeping seals can be caused by dust stone nicks or other marks on the rods. If it is a fork issue I will be extremely disappointed if Honda does not come to the party. My Dakar 50000Kms was on its third set of fork seals when I sold it. BMW claimed it was normal for the type of riding I was doing. A leaking seal should also not leave you stranded on a trip. Rode my Dakar many 2000KMs with a weeping seal once on a trip.

Sold my Dakar with 123 000km on it and still had its original fork seals on.

Seals did weep once at about 12 000km but I cleaned out the seals and after that fitted the neoprene seal savers - never had issues again.

Poffmuis · « **Reply #149 on:** May 17, 2018, 11:11:48 am »

80000km on my 990 I did seals once, not because of the seals, because one of the valves got stuck and I had to take the forks apart.
The AT does sound rather excessive on seals. Hope they can sort it out for you.

BiG DoM · « **Reply #150 on:** May 17, 2018, 11:50:46 am »

Quote from: Bill the Bong on May 17, 2018, 10:38:49 am

Quote from: Bwana on May 17, 2018, 10:00:47 am
We still have not established whether it is a fork issue or not, weeping seals can be caused by dust stone nicks or other marks on the rods. If it is a fork issue I will be extremely disappointed if Honda does not come to the party. My Dakar 50000Kms was on its third set of fork seals when I sold it. BMW claimed it was normal for the type of riding I was doing. A leaking seal should also not leave you stranded on a trip. Rode my Dakar many 2000KMs with a weeping seal once on a trip.

Have you read from the beginning?

It is a fork issue. Some may not be aware of it as it is not visible externally unless the seal pops.

XRRX · « **Reply #151 on:** May 17, 2018, 06:18:38 pm »

Quote from: Bwana on May 17, 2018, 10:00:47 am

We still have not established whether it is a fork issue or not, weeping seals can be caused by dust stone nicks or other marks on the rods. If it is a fork issue I will be extremely disappointed if Honda does not come to the party. My Dakar 50000Kms was on its third set of fork seals when I sold it. BMW claimed it was normal for the type of riding I was doing. A leaking seal should also not leave you stranded on a trip. Rode my Dakar many 2000KMs with a weeping seal once on a trip.

Was it "p^ssing" oil over the front discs, the engine as well as the riders boots -within 20km??
Dakars were quite infamous for fork seal problems on their "cooldrink straw" forks!

In my view you're not even suppose to compare a Dakar to an AT!!!

BiG DoM · « **Reply #152 on:** May 17, 2018, 07:02:28 pm »

Ja WTF? where dd that comparison even come from?

netrom · « **Reply #153 on:** May 17, 2018, 11:01:44 pm »

You try a couple of these in the mean time to keep the mud and dust out of the seals.. Fitted these to a Twin the other day.

BiG DoM · « **Reply #154 on:** May 18, 2018, 05:51:21 am »

BTW Needs a zip tie at the top. Yes they good for dust and mud esp on dirt and adv bikes but will not help an internal mechanical defect ... which is what I suspect is assisting the seal failure (ie the annodising wear and slop in the stantions).

XRRX · « **Reply #155 on:** May 20, 2018, 01:45:42 pm »

I did some amateur research into this matter - again ... $:-\$

Look, I know between nothing and very little about shocks, so hopefully the experts can shed some light into this!

We were having a beer yesterday afternoon, accompanied by the usual "talking k@k about bikes" ...

Well we found a "substantial" difference between the WP's on my 800GSA & 800XCX, and the Showa's on the AT - and that is a substantial difference of more than 30% in the "overlap" length (tube & stanchion) between the bottom of the fork tube and the level where the oil seal seats. On my 800 it's 70mm, 66mm on the XCX and around 45mm on the AT. (Will be interesting to hear from owners of different bikes what this length is on their shocks!!)

Does this relate in potentially less stability in this area, with more wear on the seals as well as other internal components on the AT?

volroom · « **Reply #156 on:** May 22, 2018, 06:33:47 am »

can anybody find out how the new showa front shock (in the 2018 model) compare to the old one. I know anodizing is different, a different colour to prove it. But, it does not bottom out so quickly, is this due to uprated fork spring only, or did they actually do a better job?

BiG DoM · « **Reply #157 on:** May 22, 2018, 06:40:03 am »

Quote from: volroom on May 22, 2018, 06:33:47 am

can anybody find out how the new showa front shock (in the 2018 model) compare to the old one. I know anodizing is different, a different colour to prove it. But, it does not bottom out so quickly, is this due to uprated fork spring only, or did they actually do a better job?

Good question - probably reworked the internals ... but who knows maybe just added decent oil. Manufacturers are known for changing things like this without full disclosure. Will need to wait for one to pop a seal and be stripped

dieseldawie · « **Reply #158 on:** May 22, 2018, 08:32:14 am »

Quote from: netrom on May 17, 2018, 11:01:44 pm

You try a couple of these in the mean time to keep the mud and dust out of the seals.. Fitted these to a Twin the other day.

Had the same issue on my Transalp. replaced seals every 10 000 km until I fitted a R130 set of short socks. Issue then went away.
My KLR did the same after 5000km. Kawa also told me to go away.

XRRX · « **Reply #159 on:** May 22, 2018, 07:04:47 pm »

Quote from: dieseldawie on May 22, 2018, 08:32:14 am

Quote from: netrom on May 17, 2018, 11:01:44 pm
You try a couple of these in the mean time to keep the mud and dust out of the seals.. Fitted these to a Twin the other day.

Had the same issue on my Transalp. replaced seals every 10 000 km until I fitted a R130 set of short socks. Issue then went away.
My KLR did the same after 5000km. Kawa also told me to go away.

.