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Author Topic: Africa Twin Fork issue - Honda SA ... Now what ...  (Read 9594 times)

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Offline volroom

Re: Africa Twin - Honda SA ... Now what ...
« Reply #40 on: May 11, 2018, 11:46:39 am »
Comment from a experienced AT rider:

"I took my bike to Hilton Hayward, he is an ex KTM Factory suspension setup wizard. His workshop is near Broederstroom. He did both the front and back. On the front he replaced all the internals and oil (he says the stock components are very low quality, awful really) and he replaced the spring and adjusted settings on the back"

At 8K it is expensive but maybe worth doing over the long run.

 :deal:

this is not just a fork seal issue, its premature failure of a inferior quality OEM part. to my knowledge the 2018 ATs had some changes made to the forks-was this issue addressed? there should perhaps be a recall

this is not what you expect from Honda
« Last Edit: May 11, 2018, 11:47:41 am by volroom »
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Offline Scalpel

Re: Africa Twin - Honda SA ... Now what ...
« Reply #41 on: May 11, 2018, 12:09:34 pm »
Following with interest.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2018, 01:41:36 pm by Scalpel »
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Offline Roxtar

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Re: Africa Twin - Honda SA ... Now what ...
« Reply #42 on: May 11, 2018, 01:46:46 pm »
Memory loss it seems... who recalls BM's stanchion issue not so long ago.... ;) ::)
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Offline Catchy

Re: Africa Twin - Honda SA ... Now what ...
« Reply #43 on: May 11, 2018, 02:03:02 pm »
Memory loss it seems... who recalls BM's stanchion issue not so long ago.... ;) ::)

Yes, but at least BM did something about it right away!  :thumleft:
Always keep your "kant" clean !
 

Offline Koet

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Re: Africa Twin - Honda SA ... Now what ...
« Reply #44 on: May 11, 2018, 02:13:44 pm »
Memory loss it seems... who recalls BM's stanchion issue not so long ago.... ;) ::)

Yes, but at least BM did something about it right away:thumleft:

 :laughing4: :laughing4: :imaposer: :imaposer: :laughing4:
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Offline Fuzzy Muzzy

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Re: Africa Twin - Honda SA ... Now what ...
« Reply #45 on: May 11, 2018, 02:23:45 pm »
Memory loss it seems... who recalls BM's stanchion issue not so long ago.... ;) ::)

 :laughing4: and lets not forget how many BMW riders they told to tsek before there was a massive outcry online which forced the recall.  :pot:
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Offline Fuzzy Muzzy

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Re: Africa Twin - Honda SA ... Now what ...
« Reply #46 on: May 11, 2018, 02:26:38 pm »
Memory loss it seems... who recalls BM's stanchion issue not so long ago.... ;) ::)

Yes, but at least BM did something about it right away!  :thumleft:

I think you are being sarcastic  :imaposer:
Africa trip, Namibia, Botswana, Zambia, Malawi, Tanzania & Moz rr http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=61231.0
 

Offline volroom

Re: Africa Twin - Honda SA ... Now what ...
« Reply #47 on: May 11, 2018, 02:31:19 pm »
a recall is a massive loss for any motorcycle mfg. but...they want us to fork out our hard earned cash, they need to ensure we get what we pay for.

One a side note, this would be one reason why I would not buy until a new model has been around for a good 3-4 years. (if I had the money).

No matter how much R and D is done, it seems, there is always something they did not think about.
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Offline Ian in Great Brak River

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Re: Africa Twin - Honda SA ... Now what ...
« Reply #48 on: May 11, 2018, 02:33:18 pm »
Thanks XR, I just ordered a Seal Doctor for the AT forks online ... don't need no shit on the next ride ... in comparison I just did the leaky fork seals on my 2001 Yam FZ1, pretty straight forward but I forgot what a messy job it can be.

Yep, prevention is better than cure.

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Offline volroom

Re: Africa Twin - Honda SA ... Now what ...
« Reply #49 on: May 11, 2018, 02:34:53 pm »
This seems a good upgrade, but at what cost:
https://backcountryadventuremotorsports.com/honda-africa-twin-front-fork-issues-fix-nitron-tvt-cartridge-swap/

he also properly anodized inner stanchion
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Offline Cracker

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Re: Africa Twin - Honda SA ... Now what ...
« Reply #50 on: May 11, 2018, 02:40:27 pm »
Surely if the anodising is coming off where the bottom triple is clamped, the it's clamped too tight. Or not round when clamped.
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Offline Catchy

Re: Africa Twin - Honda SA ... Now what ...
« Reply #51 on: May 11, 2018, 02:41:47 pm »

Honda Africa Twin Front Fork issues and fix with Nitron TVT Cartridge Swap

January 27, 2018 by ridewithbam óLeave a Comment


If you own a Africa Twin you know that this Adventure Motorcycle is one of the top rated bikes on the market. You know that it has many positives, but you also know that one of its short comings is the suspension. The Forks arenít bad, but they are a little on the soft side. Especially when riding aggressively on rocky or rough terrain. In this article Iíll be discussing some of the issues with the stock forks and why I switched to the Nitron TVT Front Cartridges to upgrade my front suspension.



It didnít take long for me to start bottoming out the suspension. When riding aggressively off road or in rough terrain I was constantly fully compressing the front suspension. The stock suspension is set up for an average weight of 185lbs and thatís including riding gear, and what ever luggage you might have on a longer tour. This puts most Americans over the max weight for the suspension right off the show room floor. Most people who own and ride an AT do not use it to its full potential. Most use it for touring and fire roads and thatís awesome. If you plan on doing an occasional BDR youíll probably be ok. Most of the BDRs are for beginner/intermediate riders with the exception of a couple that have expert sections that even skilled riders struggle with. The point here is if you are going to ride the Honda Africa Twin to its full potential, the front suspension needs to be upgraded.

WHY NITRON

As I discussed in my Nitron Rear Shock upgrade post, I didnít want a band-aide for the front suspension, I wanted something that was going to allow me to grow into the bike.  After talking to Alex at Konflict Motorsports it was a no brainer to go with NITRON front cartages as they would be the best balance of performance and budget. I highly recommend Konflict Motorsports . The Nitron TVT front Cartridges are different than the OEM forks. Instead of having to adjust both preload and compression up top and rebound down below, Nitron does like most high quality suspension and makes each leg work independently. The left leg is Compression and the right is Rebound. The legs work with each other and there is huge improvement over the OEM suspension.  All adjustments are made from the top of the forks and can be done within seconds.

PERFOMANCE

The front forks feel night and day different. I have yet to bottom the forks out and the preload is only about a third of that I was using before. The bike seems to float of rough roads and pot holes, and even tones down wash board roads to a minimum vibration. When lofting the bike over logs and rocks the bike launches how you want it to and lands with easy. I tell me riding buddy its like Iím floating or riding on a cloud.

HONDAíS KNOWN PROBLEM

Now I will tell you this. After riding the forks for a few thousand miles, I started hearing a clicking sound. I thought this was coming from the Nitron cartridge. After going through it with a fine tooth comb, I couldnít seem to figure out what was making the noise, so I decided to send my fork over to Konflict the have them check them out. Alex called me a few days later and told me he discovered that the anodizing on the upper inner fork tubes were extremely worn and the sound was the upper and lower fork tubes making contact with each other. This is a known problem with the OEM Showa fork tubes Honda uses and has nothing to do with the Nitron cartridges.

THE FIX

In short, even though my bike was out of warranty, Honda replaced my fork tubes with new ones. Awesome right? Well Honda does not have a fix for the anodizing problem, so the new fork tubes they sent me will develop the same problem if the anodizing issue isnít fixed. I decided to have the new forks shipped off to get a new ďHard Anodized CoatingĒ put on them. This is a hard military grade coating that shouldnít wear like the gold anodizing from Showa. Alex from Konflict handled everything for me, even the warranty with Honda. I have had zero problems since getting the forks back and put the suspension to the test on parts of the Nevada BDR recently.

I hope this quick overview helps with any questions you might have with your suspension. Click the video below to show how to install the Nitron Cartridges on your Honda AT, and please, if you have any question or comments, leave it in the comments below.
Always keep your "kant" clean !
 

Offline armpump

Re: Africa Twin - Honda SA ... Now what ...
« Reply #52 on: May 11, 2018, 02:49:00 pm »
Surely if the anodising is coming off where the bottom triple is clamped, the it's clamped too tight. Or not round when clamped.

18nm
 

Offline volroom

Re: Africa Twin - Honda SA ... Now what ...
« Reply #53 on: May 11, 2018, 03:15:06 pm »
he discovered that the anodizing on the upper inner fork tubes were extremely worn

inside of the stanchion?

seems just looking at the www that Honda has not sorted this issue with the 2018 ATs. If under warranty, they replace..but it is just a matter of time before it happens again?
« Last Edit: May 11, 2018, 04:08:13 pm by volroom »
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Offline Twinman

Re: Africa Twin - Honda SA ... Now what ...
« Reply #54 on: May 11, 2018, 07:31:55 pm »
Seems like they don't make the new AT as bullet proof as the old school XRV. I am glad I'd rather bought a GS.
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Offline Bill the Bong

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Re: Africa Twin - Honda SA ... Now what ...
« Reply #55 on: May 11, 2018, 07:57:00 pm »
Surely if the anodising is coming off where the bottom triple is clamped, the it's clamped too tight. Or not round when clamped.

18nm

Actually Honda specs 35Nm for the lower clamps :o

Two additional issues is that the slider bush on the lower legs is under sized and that a significant length of fork leg protrudes above this bush.  This combination allows the stanchion to contact the inside of the slider, wearing the anodizing (specifically in the area of the bottom triple clamp).  However, this also causes leading edge damage of the bush, which allows the stanchion to deflect inside the slider under load, potentially causing seal failure.
 
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Offline volroom

Re: Africa Twin - Honda SA ... Now what ...
« Reply #56 on: May 11, 2018, 08:22:38 pm »
Surely if the anodising is coming off where the bottom triple is clamped, the it's clamped too tight. Or not round when clamped.

18nm

Actually Honda specs 35Nm for the lower clamps :o

Two additional issues is that the slider bush on the lower legs is under sized and that a significant length of fork leg protrudes above this bush.  This combination allows the stanchion to contact the inside of the slider, wearing the anodizing (specifically in the area of the bottom triple clamp).  However, this also causes leading edge damage of the bush, which allows the stanchion to deflect inside the slider under load, potentially causing seal failure.

sounds complex, but also serious enough to warrant a recall eventually
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Offline blauth

Re: Africa Twin - Honda SA ... Now what ...
« Reply #57 on: May 11, 2018, 09:28:34 pm »
Surely if the anodising is coming off where the bottom triple is clamped, the it's clamped too tight. Or not round when clamped.

18nm

Actually Honda specs 35Nm for the lower clamps :o

Two additional issues is that the slider bush on the lower legs is under sized and that a significant length of fork leg protrudes above this bush.  This combination allows the stanchion to contact the inside of the slider, wearing the anodizing (specifically in the area of the bottom triple clamp).  However, this also causes leading edge damage of the bush, which allows the stanchion to deflect inside the slider under load, potentially causing seal failure.

35Nm sounds crazy tight. I'd double check that. I've snapped a triple clamp off by over tightening once.....and that wasn't all that tight. But admittedly, at the time, I didn't have a sensitive feel and wasn't using a torque wrench. Triple clamp bolts should be torqued.

Offline blauth

Re: Africa Twin - Honda SA ... Now what ...
« Reply #58 on: May 11, 2018, 09:36:13 pm »
First off, thanks to XRRX for taking my plight up on this forum and to Skolla who tried to remedy the situation in Phillipolis nogal :P :o >
My bike has never seen any form of abuse, at all. Had only done 10300km at the time of the incident.
The day before I did around 150km through the worst mud and rain conditions I have ever experienced. On the day of the incident, all 3 of us went through a washed out ditch across the gravel road.
I subsequently found out on overseas rider groups that riding muddy conditions is known to cause this kind of damage on the AT.

There are no stone or and other form of damage notable on the stantion, which had turned "blue". According a Honda mechanic in Umhlanga, as a result of no oil.
Bike was service at 1000 km.
One does not expect this from a R170 000 worth bike, supposedly designed and built to "conquer" the world.

Problem is: at the time of incident, it was 20 days out of warranty. :deal: :sip:
Feedback from HondaSA: Sorry, warranty has expired. Nothing else.

Lessons learned by me:
Check your warranty book and make sure your salesperson has completed it properly and service strictly accordingly. I did not service every 12 months, because my salesman did not complete that part of the warranty card. I believe this played a big part in HondaSA rejecting the claim.

I submitted the claim against odds, hoping for a "in good faith" repair.

Contemplating if its worth escalating the matter. :-\ :-\.

Thanks for the support chaps.

Good honest post. I'd simply try and see if they can maybe help you out at cost, meet halfway. They'd still be doing you a favour in this case though.

I think what's happened is the R&D department overspent on their budget and the bean counters had an intervention. Now Honda are scratching in the budget bin for parts. But I hear you, given the quality of the rear shock on the Rally 250, this issue doesn't really surprise me. I remember the days where Honda's were known to be absolutely bullet proof are long gone. Let's face it, they bragged about this bike long enough before releasing it, it's not like they didn't have time to sort out all the niggles.

Offline Tampan

Re: Africa Twin Fork issue - Honda SA ... Now what ...
« Reply #59 on: May 11, 2018, 09:48:27 pm »
If I pay R170k odd for an adventure bike, supposed to take me to hell and back, without leaving me stranded and one that is to be direct competition for the other big brand names, shock shit is the last thing to be a problem. Even more so if itís a well known problem. Regardless of where and how I rode the bike, itís supposed to be the Land Cruiser of adventure bikes.

Honda got way more challenging and complex things right on the AT, apparently. How can they afford to do themselves in by a simple component like a shock? The mind boggles...