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Offline volroom

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Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #120 on: May 24, 2018, 06:41:08 pm »
Specs in english, not American https://hondanews.eu/eu/en/motorcycles/media/pressreleases/131076/2019-crf450l10

Oil and filter change every 1000km and 30 000 rebuild! WTF! No thank you, not interested anymore!.. :xxbah:

This is just another KTM eduro..

if that is true, then this is a cheapshot from Honda
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Offline sidetrack

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Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #121 on: May 24, 2018, 06:47:20 pm »
A dedicated enduro bike like a X or KTM 500 can easily do 3000km service intervals. This L should be able to do even more, what is oil capacity ?
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Offline J-dog

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Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #122 on: May 24, 2018, 06:58:55 pm »
On these bikes, it's simple enough to change the oil and sparks any time you want. And it's quite fun to do wif a beer in your garage. Don't let that put you off.  :3some:

A 30,000k top build is fair enough. The old XT's etc needed the same.  :thumleft:
 

Offline Xpat

Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #123 on: May 24, 2018, 06:59:18 pm »
I somehow have  hunch that whoever put out that press release  on that hondanews.eu website, should be properly slapped. It just doesn't add up, so I think people are getting all freaked out for nothing. Here is the passage that seems just surreal:

"Peak power is 18.4kW, with peak torque of 32Nm. Important from the hobby trail-riderís perspective is the engineís reliability and gap between service intervals. And this is where the CRF450Lís build quality and design really stands out; it will go 32,000km between major strip downs, with an air filter oil and oil filter change every 1000km."

This shit just doesn't make any sense. I for one am perfectly happy with the 1000 km oil change and got really hopeful when I read about top end every 32k km. Because after riding almost 10k km on KTM 500 (which this bike seems to be, or at least I hope is, targeted at - no wonder as it is THE benchmark for dual sporting in US) I would happily stretch that to about 3000 - 5000 km (500 supposedly requires oil change every 15 hours - I have ridden 12 days and 2000 km or Kaokoland without one and without slightest worry). Those are clearly racing intervals to cover their ass - and if they can make bike at least as reliable/durable as KTM (which is big if as 450 KTMs proved to be much more reliable than Hondas in Dakar conditions), this is complete red herring.

But what got me really excited was top end rebuild at 32k km (again, I'm pretty sure they are just conservative for legal reasons, but even if), because it indicated that they will not castrate the power too much, which was the last unknown in the equasion. But 25hp??? WTF - that is the same as 250. What is the point of this bike then?

I think the info is just incorrect. Either they will keep it purebred (as them sticking with proper suspension seems to indicate) and will specify relatively intense service intervals - which is my preferred option, especially as the real world experience with many 500 shows that those can be stretched much further. Or the will do the usual Honda trick of castrating the power for people who do not appreciate actually riding motorcycles, just don't want to get their hands dirty, but then the service intervals don't make sense.

Offline J-dog

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Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #124 on: May 24, 2018, 07:01:54 pm »
I somehow have  hunch that whoever put out that press release  on that hondanews.eu website, should be properly slapped. It just doesn't add up, so I think people are getting all freaked out for nothing. Here is the passage that seems just surreal:

"Peak power is 18.4kW, with peak torque of 32Nm. Important from the hobby trail-riderís perspective is the engineís reliability and gap between service intervals. And this is where the CRF450Lís build quality and design really stands out; it will go 32,000km between major strip downs, with an air filter oil and oil filter change every 1000km."

This shit just doesn't make any sense. I for one am perfectly happy with the 1000 km oil change and got really hopeful when I read about top end every 32k km. Because after riding almost 10k km on KTM 500 (which this bike seems to be, or at least I hope is, targeted at - no wonder as it is THE benchmark for dual sporting in US) I would happily stretch that to about 3000 - 5000 km (500 supposedly requires oil change every 15 hours - I have ridden 12 days and 2000 km or Kaokoland without one and without slightest worry). Those are clearly racing intervals to cover their ass - and if they can make bike at least as reliable/durable as KTM (which is big if as 450 KTMs proved to be much more reliable than Hondas in Dakar conditions), this is complete red herring.

But what got me really excited was top end rebuild at 32k km (again, I'm pretty sure they are just conservative for legal reasons, but even if), because it indicated that they will not castrate the power too much, which was the last unknown in the equasion. But 25hp??? WTF - that is the same as 250. What is the point of this bike then?

I think the info is just incorrect. Either they will keep it purebred (as them sticking with proper suspension seems to indicate) and will specify relatively intense service intervals - which is my preferred option, especially as the real world experience with many 500 shows that those can be stretched much further. Or the will do the usual Honda trick of castrating the power for people who do not appreciate actually riding motorcycles, just don't want to get their hands dirty, but then the service intervals don't make sense.

What I said above  :thumleft:
« Last Edit: May 24, 2018, 07:02:33 pm by J-dog »
 

Offline Fransw

Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #125 on: May 24, 2018, 07:07:58 pm »
I somehow have  hunch that whoever put out that press release  on that hondanews.eu website, should be properly slapped. It just doesn't add up, so I think people are getting all freaked out for nothing. Here is the passage that seems just surreal:

"Peak power is 18.4kW, with peak torque of 32Nm. Important from the hobby trail-riderís perspective is the engineís reliability and gap between service intervals. And this is where the CRF450Lís build quality and design really stands out; it will go 32,000km between major strip downs, with an air filter oil and oil filter change every 1000km."

This shit just doesn't make any sense. I for one am perfectly happy with the 1000 km oil change and got really hopeful when I read about top end every 32k km. Because after riding almost 10k km on KTM 500 (which this bike seems to be, or at least I hope is, targeted at - no wonder as it is THE benchmark for dual sporting in US) I would happily stretch that to about 3000 - 5000 km (500 supposedly requires oil change every 15 hours - I have ridden 12 days and 2000 km or Kaokoland without one and without slightest worry). Those are clearly racing intervals to cover their ass - and if they can make bike at least as reliable/durable as KTM (which is big if as 450 KTMs proved to be much more reliable than Hondas in Dakar conditions), this is complete red herring.

But what got me really excited was top end rebuild at 32k km (again, I'm pretty sure they are just conservative for legal reasons, but even if), because it indicated that they will not castrate the power too much, which was the last unknown in the equasion. But 25hp??? WTF - that is the same as 250. What is the point of this bike then?

I think the info is just incorrect. Either they will keep it purebred (as them sticking with proper suspension seems to indicate) and will specify relatively intense service intervals - which is my preferred option, especially as the real world experience with many 500 shows that those can be stretched much further. Or the will do the usual Honda trick of castrating the power for people who do not appreciate actually riding motorcycles, just don't want to get their hands dirty, but then the service intervals don't make sense.

Yes 25hp for a 450 motor doesn't sound right! I think one can expect at least 45hp here. I really want to like this bike! Let's wait and see..
 

Offline Rover

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Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #126 on: May 24, 2018, 07:39:36 pm »
Looks good to me,
ticks most of the boxes
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Offline sidetrack

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Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #127 on: May 24, 2018, 07:46:55 pm »
No way it can be 24hp. What Honda could have also have done is build a 500 version of the 250L motor that would give a comfortable 40hp and 12000km service intervals but wont be exiting as a enduro derived engine.
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http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=134175.0 Penge's pass and the Old Forest http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=9421.0 - Orange Atlantic adventure http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=7514.0 - 805 km day trip http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=20260.0 - East Cape Bash http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=70199.0 - Two KTM thumpers head north
 

Offline BiG DoM

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Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #128 on: May 24, 2018, 08:00:38 pm »
No way it can be 24hp. What Honda could have also have done is build a 500 version of the 250L motor that would give a comfortable 40hp and 12000km service intervals but wont be exiting as a enduro derived engine.

Agree - that is 250 HP! The new 2019 R they seem to be hyping at near 60HP (which is hard to believe) and it would certainly need race type servicing and rebuilds. Most previous models were in the 45HP range as I remember. I am sure this one would be in the 40 ballpark at least as that would acceptable for a 450 Adv imho.
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Offline volroom

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Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #129 on: May 24, 2018, 08:35:34 pm »
even though its acceptable for an enduro to rebuild around 30k km, its not for an adventure bike. you rack up miles much more quickly.
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Offline Bill the Bong

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Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #130 on: May 24, 2018, 08:38:33 pm »
Just as a point of order  :imaposer: I've just ordered the top-end parts for a KTM 690 with 32 000 km on it.  Burning oil.

Back to the Honda:  I have a CRF450X and the perimeter frame makes carrying a lot of fuel a real bitch.  A little bit sits between the frame rails, the rest on top, making it top heavy.  You can't go outside the frames without making the bike exceptionally wide. This will be exactly the same.
 

Offline Bells

Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #131 on: May 24, 2018, 08:41:00 pm »
Specs in english, not American https://hondanews.eu/eu/en/motorcycles/media/pressreleases/131076/2019-crf450l10

Oil and filter change every 1000km and 30 000 rebuild! WTF! No thank you, not interested anymore!.. :xxbah:

This is just another KTM eduro..

Probably a typo, with 18kw its more likely to be 10k


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Offline Dwerg

Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #132 on: May 24, 2018, 08:46:56 pm »
30000 is plenty for the type of riding a bike like this will do. Will take a few years to reach


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Offline edgy

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Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #133 on: May 24, 2018, 08:48:21 pm »
30000 is plenty for the type of riding a bike like this will do. Will take a few years to reach


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[/quote
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Offline Xpat

Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #134 on: May 24, 2018, 08:52:56 pm »
even though its acceptable for an enduro to rebuild around 30k km, its not for an adventure bike. you rack up miles much more quickly.

This is not adventure bike - it is dual sport. I.e. plated enduro bike, which is exactly what dual sport is supposed to be according to its origin in US. How long you think it takes to do 30k km on bike like this if used properly? I have been on sabatical for a year now mostly riding bikes, and most of that KTM 500. And I have done 9.5k km in that year. Three trips to Lesotho each two weeks or so, ride through Kaokoland and Damaraland, ride around Okavango detla, many weekend outings to De Wildt. I'm probably going to go and do West Coast next week or two. Most people will never even manage one of those trips. The key point on those trips is the density of experience, not km ridden (getting to Kaokoland and back to Joburg took us 4 days and over 3k km in bakkie - the trip itself was 2k km and 12 days, 100 km in Lesotho over mountains is very different game than 100 km in Cederberg). If you are after quantity rather than quality in your trips and measure your adventures in kms, this is IMO completely wrong bike for it (at least if it is what I think it is - i.e. Honda's response to KTM 500).

So how exactly you expect to rack up 30k km quickly? I will tell you how - by using the bike completely wrong. If you are looking for bike to ride easy peasy dirt and tar, if you are looking for commuter, or for a bike to ride to WD bash once a year, you are looking at the wrong bike. This one will do it with added maintenance and horrible discomfort, but it is complete waste of great suspension and - hopefully - full fat engine build to provide enjoyment, full red blood enjoyment - not transportation. Almost anything will do better for transportation than this - from any scooter to Triumph Rocket. If you want to go round the world, again - almost anything, including the CRF250 will be better than this, unless you are really going off the beaten track, which almost nobody on RTW trips does. Its highways all the way for most of them and traditional multicylinder adv bike will do much much better.

Even if the oil interval is 10k km and rebuild at 300k km, that quality suspension which seems to have been confirmed will require much more care than dumbed down less sophisticated, but more robust suspensions on 'normal' adventure bikes.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2018, 08:55:30 pm by Xpat »
 

Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #135 on: May 24, 2018, 09:12:09 pm »
On these bikes, it's simple enough to change the oil and sparks any time you want. And it's quite fun to do wif a beer in your garage. Don't let that put you off.  :3some:

A 30,000k top build is fair enough. The old XT's etc needed the same.  :thumleft:

Nou praat jy darem lekker kak......watter "ou" XT's het net 30 000kms op n enjin geloop??

N XT500 sal 30 000kms haal sonder enjin olie. :pot:
 

Offline Cracker

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Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #136 on: May 24, 2018, 09:45:28 pm »
My KLX450 is on 40 000 km now and it's had a few bits replaced - not a top-end rebuild. And it gets raced, not just dawdling around the country looking at the scenery.

I've had to replace the conrod, the camchain and it's on it's 3rd set of intake valves - just coz they're titanium. If they were SS, which they can be, they'd still be first generation.

Piston, rings, cylindr, valve guides, cams and other bits are all still in spec - yet the manual says they should be replaced every 1000km or so.

As long as you don't have to keep shimming/adjusting rockers on this Honda, it will be fine. Shimming is no biggee but repeatedly stripping a bike is not good for bolts, plastics or aluminium.

So, I wouldn't worry about a 30k rebuild. Unless it's a really kak engine, it shouldn't ever need it ............... not for a long long time.

You might need a lot of cable-ties to keep it all together after a 30 000 thrashing, though ..................
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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #137 on: May 24, 2018, 09:48:36 pm »
My KLX450 is on 40 000 km now and it's had a few bits replaced - not a top-end rebuild. And it gets raced, not just dawdling around the country looking at the scenery.

I've had to replace the conrod, the camchain and it's on it's 3rd set of intake valves - just coz they're titanium. If they were SS, which they can be, they'd still be first generation.

Piston, rings, cylindr, valve guides, cams and other bits are all still in spec - yet the manual says they should be replaced every 1000km or so.

As long as you don't have to keep shimming/adjusting rockers on this Honda, it will be fine. Shimming is no biggee but repeatedly stripping a bike is not good for bolts, plastics or aluminium.

So, I wouldn't worry about a 30k rebuild. Unless it's a really kak engine, it shouldn't ever need it ............... not for a long long time.

You might need a lot of cable-ties to keep it all together after a 30 000 thrashing, though ..................


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Offline blauth

Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #138 on: May 25, 2018, 08:02:07 am »
This bike sounds great but in a world were more and more people can only afford one bike, the WR250R and CRF250L actually do an excellent job of being the commercial tool and play thing, primary reason being that they have real world service intervals, are suitable for commuting and can still play.

In my mind, the 'L' in this bike simply means it's street legal, not necessarily street intended. It's an exercise for the American market of making an existing model street legal, so nothing new per se. The lack of an ABS option also shows clear intent because in most European countries, I think this is mandatory for road going bikes.

What I personally would have liked to see is a 450 with a robust engine (read long service intervals), broader flat seat like the L, an ABS as optional and a larger fuel tank....

This is not a complaint, it's just not closing the gap that the 650 class dual sports filled....at least not in my mind.

Offline teebag

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Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #139 on: May 25, 2018, 08:48:31 am »
Agreed - doubt we will see it here